[CAxrrAYN]

Salam.

What are your thoughts on the term Islamic Democracy?

Jzk.

[theatadug]

Salaam

Islam = Deen revealed by Allah to Muhammed (saw) which Muslims must use as a single reference point for the laws for the whole of their life.

Democracy = Law of the people, by the people.... where Allah has no right to interfere in man's decisions of how he wants to live since they decide what law will govern their lives.

So Islamic Democracy is like Islamic Hinduism - a contradiction in terms.

[Garry Hovard]

Salaam

Islam = Deen revealed by Allah to Muhammed (saw) which Muslims must use as a single reference point for the laws for the whole of their life.

Democracy = Law of the people, by the people.... where Allah has no right to interfere in man's decisions of how he wants to live since they decide what law will govern their lives.

So Islamic Democracy is like Islamic Hinduism - a contradiction in terms.

What if Democracy is defined as "laws formed throughout representatives of the people and bounded within the shariah" ?

[Natashasuw]

What if Democracy is defined as "laws formed throughout representatives of the people and bounded within the shariah" ?

How could laws formed by representatives of the people be 'bound by sharia'? That makes no sense since the sharia IS the law

[SpecialOFFER]

How could laws formed by representatives of the people be 'bound by sharia'? That makes no sense since the sharia IS the law

Because the shariah has kept open many aspects without any fixed laws or laws based on customs which can be modified if required. Secondly, the shariah is also interpreted by the people and in that case there are a group of laws which are derived through analogy or inductions that may nnot be so self evident or clear or agreed upon or monolithic in possible interpretations and opinions. In that case too, the people have a influential role to play IF such laws will get implemented from the top.

[Aagotiq]

You could in theory have a parliament but it would not be able to make any laws. All laws would be discovered by faqis (jurists) and they only apply them in a court. As long as parliament does not make fractional reserve banking halal, or force people to use the state paper money, or increase taxes for everybody....which really makes parliament useless and therefore not worth having.

What do people make of this:
As Predicted, CIA-Sponsored Muslim Brotherhood Becomes Enemy

http://thedailybell.com/3618/As-Pred...-Becomes-Enemy

Dominant Social Theme: The Muslim Brotherhood is a bad and radical organization. Now they've emerged from nowhere to challenge the United States and the larger West. Bad luck, eh? Who could have known?

Free-Market Analysis: In a series of groundbreaking articles (beep, beep, alert: self-promotion ahead!) we have tried to establish (with some success in our view) that the Anglosphere power elite has been using the State Department and the US military to overthrow secular Middle Eastern and African regimes.

We have also pointed out that the logical successors were Islamic fundamentalist regimes. We have explained in the past year, in probably half a dozen articles or more, that radical groups like the Muslim Brotherhood were positioned to take over in numerous countries. Just search the 'Net for the terms "Muslim Brotherhood" and "Arab Spring" and "Daily Bell."

Surprise, surprise ... that's exactly what's happening. Like clockwork, the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood is being cast as the latest Islamic bogeyman. It's forming a government in Egypt and providing the Anglosphere's bought-and-paid-for US columnists plenty of content for frothing-at-the-mouth anti-Islamist op-eds.

[bF8CCmmr]

Salam alikum,
I understand there would be islamic lawyers issuing decisions/proposal about sharia, but there should be still counsil or some other body (parliament in smaller shape) to decide about if and when the particular decision to be implemented, and also have right to comment and cooperate with lawyers, or?
And in additon who will choose those lawyers and other organisations to keep system transparent?

[BodoidearoLew]

Salam.

What are your thoughts on the term Islamic Democracy?

Jzk.

I believe the name of this thread must be changed. There is nothing as Islamic Democracy. This term is an oxymoron. This is just like pasting a label of Islam on a system of kufr (inherited from the west). There is no such mixture. Our Ulema have forbidden us to do that. They have categorically stated that there can be only 2 types of system. A system of govt is either is Shariah or it is Kufr (e.g Democracy)

[Lhiistyssdds]

Salaam Brothers

Muslims have been ordered to refer all their matters to what our Messenger Muhammed (saw) has brought and not the people.

But no! by your Lord! they do not believe (in reality) until they make you a judge of that which has become a matter of disagreement among them, and then do not find any straitness in their hearts as to what you have decided and submit with entire submission. (4.60)

"It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path." (33.36)

The Deen of Islam is perfect and complete containing a law for everything:

" This day have I perfected your Deen for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your Deen" (5.3)

"We have sent down to you the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims." (16.89)

Ijtihad is the effort exerted by the Mujtahid to deduce a law

(a) from the Quran and Sunnah only - not referring it to the people in anyway making its validity subject to their choice
(b) only on matters for which the law is implicit in the Quran and Sunnah which require a deduction and not on explicitly stated matters such as Ribah and Alcohol being haram or the command to cut the hand of the thief since these are explicit verses.

The Head of State in Islam reserves the competency to adopt a law on an Ijtihadi matter which is binding upon the the Muslims as has been demonstrated by the Khulafah Rashidah of Abu Bakr (RA) and Omar (RA).

Besides, Democracy emanates from Secularism and not Islam which in itself is a sufficient reason to make it batil, invalid, in itself since it has not been brought by our our Messenger (saw)....

"Whatever the Messenger brings you take it...." (59.7)

[hoconnor6605]

There is no such mixture. Our Ulema have forbidden us to do that. They have categorically stated that there can be only 2 types of system. A system of govt is either is Shariah or it is Kufr (e.g Democracy)

Do you have a LINK or other evidence to back up your claim that Democracy is forbidden in Islam?

Or is that just your personal opinion?

[vladekad]

this has been discussed on this forum in quite elaborate detail. use google search for the thread made by brother abu fatimah called 'democracy in islam' (or something similar).

[constanyiskancho]

What if Democracy is defined as "laws formed throughout representatives of the people and bounded within the shariah" ?

Salam.

The crux of the matter is this:

The SEED for the Shariah and Islamic law is the ISLAMIC AQEEDAH.
The SEED for Democratic laws is the KUFR (secular) AQEEDAH.

What emanates from Kufr can only be Kufr (and should be rejected).

We are not allowed (haram) to Rationalise on Shariah, rather we use the Mind (akkal) to understand the Shariah text.

Those who promote that Democracy is compatible with Islam fail to understand these basic points.

Abu Muhammad 'Abdullah bin Amr bin al-'As, radiyallahu 'anhu, reported that the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam, said:"None of you (truly) believes until his desire or inclination is in accordance with what I have brought or subservient to what I came with."
[A fine and genuine hadith which was related by al-Maqdidsi in his Book of Hujjah]

Salam

[QzVyZbTg]

Do you have a LINK or other evidence to back up your claim that Democracy is forbidden in Islam?

Or is that just your personal opinion?

References:
Maulana Yusuf Ludhianvi ru - Aap kay masail aur unn ka hal, volume 8, page 176
Maulana Idrees Kandhelvi ru - Aqaid e Islam, page 132
Maulana Hafiz Muhammad Ahmad - Jamhooriat ya Islam, page 101
Nizaam e Taghut se baraat pages 17 to 20.

And many many more..

[Jorcelirl]

What emanates from Kufr can only be Kufr (and should be rejected).

If you really believe that brother.

Then you should throw your cell phone and computer in the garbage can.

And never ride in a car again.

Seriously......

[gopsbousperie]

Greenchanda's argument is similar to saying :

Islam is defined as Islam while democracy is defined as whatever opposes Islam, therefore Islam and Democracy is incompatible. Magic!

[GuitarLoverBe]

References:
Maulana Yusuf Ludhianvi ru - Aap kay masail aur unn ka hal, volume 8, page 176
Maulana Idrees Kandhelvi ru - Aqaid e Islam, page 132
Maulana Hafiz Muhammad Ahmad - Jamhooriat ya Islam, page 101
Nizaam e Taghut se baraat pages 17 to 20.

And many many more..

And these sources specifically say that Democracy is forbidden in Islam?

[jaydicassdhy]

And these sources specifically say that Democracy is forbidden in Islam?

brother the whole war between the mujahideen and the US after fall of soviet union was mainly because of the US's imposition of democracy on their lands. the US had thought in the 80s the mujahideen would get rid of the soviets and all will be well. but the US did not create the mujahideen it only armed them more. the US did not see that the same people would fight the US because US underestimated the power of Islam. in central asia some of the mujahideen once armed by CIA rebelled when US installed democracy in their lands (saleem shahzad; inside al qaida and taliban). in yemen recently a mujahid again reiterated the same thing.

you said once on a thread you thought afghan taliban as mujahideen. they reject democracy outright. this is why they did not accept ahmad shah massoud's offer to form government in mid 90s. many people who hate mujahideen do so because of their hatreed for salafis. but afghan taliban are not salafi. they are deobandi hanafi.

and it is an established fact mujahideen follow shariah to the best of their abilities under the guidance of their scholars. and their scholars and the overall group of mujahideen reject democracy in muslim lands out right. its a pity you cannot read urdu for the books would have been of much benefit.

[ceagstuntee]

Democracy is a word...it means different things to different people, sometimes this is deliberate to control the masses so that they always associate good positive feelings with the word...the word is always kept nebulous by propaganda. If you are going to say Islam is against it or for it...you have to first define it.

[Valdoyes]

How can democracy be imposed by America? This is a contradiction. American vote for someone, who then invades a foreign country to impose a voting system on them? How come American votes can impose this on others?

[preptarra]

Salaam Brothers

Muslims have been ordered to refer all their matters to what our Messenger Muhammed (saw) has brought and not the people.

But no! by your Lord! they do not believe (in reality) until they make you a judge of that which has become a matter of disagreement among them, and then do not find any straitness in their hearts as to what you have decided and submit with entire submission. (4.60)

"It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path." (33.36)

The Deen of Islam is perfect and complete containing a law for everything:

" This day have I perfected your Deen for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your Deen" (5.3)

"We have sent down to you the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims." (16.89)

Ijtihad is the effort exerted by the Mujtahid to deduce a law

(a) from the Quran and Sunnah only - not referring it to the people in anyway making its validity subject to their choice
(b) only on matters for which the law is implicit in the Quran and Sunnah which require a deduction and not on explicitly stated matters such as Ribah and Alcohol being haram or the command to cut the hand of the thief since these are explicit verses.

The Head of State in Islam reserves the competency to adopt a law on an Ijtihadi matter which is binding upon the the Muslims as has been demonstrated by the Khulafah Rashidah of Abu Bakr (RA) and Omar (RA).

Besides, Democracy emanates from Secularism and not Islam which in itself is a sufficient reason to make it batil, invalid, in itself since it has not been brought by our our Messenger (saw)....

"Whatever the Messenger brings you take it...." (59.7)

Salaam brothers & Ramadhan Kareem

I am happy to be corrected if you would like to address the core points which includes the above and that whatever the Messenger (saw) DID bring is Islam, and what he did NOT, is kufr.

For clarification, this is referring to the Deen and not technology which has been permitted under the general rules of all things (not laws) being permitted through the verses such as Allah created all things for our use whereas the legislation has bene restricted to what Allah has revelealed in the Quran and Sunnah.

May Allah reward you all for your sincere efforts to understand His Deen and to seek his pleasure only.