[Chooriwrocafn]

@Abdul:



He didn't say Allah is in need of a place, he just said he is above the throne.



There's a lot of them in Lebanon and they're horrible Takfeeris.

read the post just under this by me

[Qncvqpgfg]

your hatred is funny, maybe you should meet some of them for yourself and talk to them.

you know the funny thing is brother I don't hate the aicp/habashis, but really a lot of other people do from a lot of different schools of thought do dislike and distrust them.

Personally brother I feel nothing but brotherhood and pity for the people who inncently follow them whilst being blinkered to the many questions about the motivation of the leadership for whatever reason.

however, there is much evidence that the leadership have peculiar motivations and some very bad freinds that they declare all sorts of people non-Muslims and cause all sorts of fitna, If I was you really I would get new teachers about whom there are no such issues.

personally I was once at the fringes of a tareeqa that I was very fond of, but over time I learned that there were some real problematical issues to do with that particular group and I didn't want to have to face Allah after have been involved in doubtful things therefore even though I had many personal and social reasons to stay with them I dissacociated myself from them - without making the mistake of disrespecting them as that too would have been wrong. Maybe you will find that something like this happens to you sometime InshaAllah.

[turbutbamethyg]

To say that allah is above the throne means he is in need of place, where was he before he created the arsh? allah created the arsh and after creating it he doesnt change or need it.

as I said akhi, we dont mess around with philosophy, Alah said he's above the throne so we accept taht without asking how, what it looks like, how it complies with plato and aristotle, etc. I find taht most satisfactory and respect others may not and thats their choice.

Am I muslim or kafir?

Im reluctant to engage in kalaam with you but why would Allah creating a throne and Alah being above that created object mean Allah is in need of being above it? Even if I engage in kalaam with yo, it sounds to me like atheism to say Allah doesnt exist anywhere and doenst have any place. But whats teh use in this kalaam? Most people asharis dont even know ashari aqeedah

[yK2VgoEI]

Assalaam wa3alaykom ya akhwaani,

I am someone who (from what i gathered searching previous posts) am what most people would call a Habashi. Alhumdulillaah, I do not get offended from such a term as it merely indicates who my "teacher" is. By teacher, i mean I am learning from someone who the great Shaykh Abdullaah Al-Harririy Al-Habashi (may Allaah have mercy on him) taught with his own mouth. After saying this, and reading previous posts on matters of 'Aqidah, Tawassul, Fiqh and so on, I can only muster that the majority of people on this website are from Ahlussunna. Alhumdulillaah! Also, after reading such posts on he matters of the Ahbash, i have seen many accusations that the Ahbash are also out of he fold of ahlussuna! I tried not to get offended, but i couldnt help myself.

After getting knowledge from many shuyukh who are affiliates of Ahlusunna and then also learning from the Ahbash, i could not find one difference in accordance to the Ash'ari 'aqidah, shafi'i fiqh and i'm sure you know the rest as m sure youve read before.

So my question is this, how can the teach allthe same principle as yourselves, everyone else who from the Sunnah but be ouside their fold? Because they are "extreme" in takfir against the mujassimah? I find this very erraneous as we all know te stance the main scholars of Ahlusunna took on this matter.

Is it because they are against the other shuyukh of Ahlusunna who do not do enough to stamp out the mujassimah. I myelf, have heard straight from the mouth of a student of Shaykh Nuh Keller, tht the mujassimah should not be declared as disbelievers because they say say the shahada and this suffices. Whether they do tajseem or not is besides the point. Hmmm, i also find this erraneous as this classifies the scholars as incorrect. Then, after reading many online statements from Shaykh Nuh Keller himself, i realised he is COMPLETELY against these mujassimeen but will not go far enough to classify it as blasphemy. Why is this?

I am in no way saying Shaykh Nuh Keller is a blasphemer and believe me when I say this, nor do any of the Ahbash as I actually raised this issue with them 2 weeks ago. They, as the shaykh put it, merely disappointed that their Ahlusunna brothes are so lenient towards them. He notes that he realises Shaykh Nuh Keller is against them, but is upset by the fact that they are left stranded taking on this "war" on their own when ahulsunna is the majority of this ummah and cant do so much more. I like Shaykh Nuh Keller and am constanly reading his articles, but cannot undrstand how he disagrees with the mujasimah, says it is completely an incorrect belief, but to classify them a blasphemer is extreme? I may be such a laymen that I cannot understand his method. I hope to gain clarification on hs issue here and other forums as I will be posting this there as well.

[djmassk]

I also declare this of my own statements and in no way vouching or typing for the Ahbash as a whole. I obviously do not have the knowledge to do so as I am merely a student of their classes and on who has great love for them as well as the whole ahulusunna wal jama'at as a whole. May Allaah guide us and keep us steadfast. Ya Allaah, I ask you by the greatest creation of Yours, Prophet Muhammad sallAllaahu 3alayi wassalam to unite he ahlasunna waljama3at.

[teentodiefows]

They are so blind in their hatred of Ibn taymiyyah (), that a brother told me that once he was taken to their centre where he was made to read highlighted arabic text supposedly written by him saying things like God is three (na'udhubillah), Jesus is His son" ... whereas Ibn Taymiyyah was merely stating the christian views !
See also what wrote Mufti Husain here.

So many people are telling us things like this. Its so unfortunate that so many people seem to refuse to see what the AICP really are.


.... In an unprecedented step in 1992, the Ahbash ran two candidates in Lebanon's parliamentary elections, one of whom, Dr. Trabulsi, won a seat in Beirut. Despite their commitment to pacifism and moderation, the Ahbash are engaged in a life-and-death struggle with what they call "Hizb al-Ikhwan" -the Brotherhood Party" -particularly Fathi Yakan's al-Jama'a al-Islamiyya and its transnational allies.

Beyond their doctrinal and ideological conflicts, al-Ahbash and al-Jama'a have engaged in bloody clashes around the 'Umar al-Kabir Mosque in Sidon and the 'Isa bin Maryam Mosque in Tripoli.79 Spokesmen for al-Jama'a and its Egyptian Islamist allies have denounced Shaykh Habashi as "an individual who plans to divide the Sunnis of Lebanon".80

Yakan has accused the Ahbash of serving Zionism and protecting its interests in the Middle East.81 He has also attacked Habashi for deviating from the Prophet's teachings by following the Mu'tazila and for his categorical rejection of Ibn Taymiyya, Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab, and Sayyid Qutb. 82

Yakan further criticizes the Ahbash for their wholesale use of takfir -an accusation of unbelief (kufr) against their enemies; he calls them "the denouncer's faction" (al-firqa al-mukaffira).83

RELATIONS WITH OTHER GROUPS

In contrast to their profound enmity toward Yakan's Jamaa al-Islamiyya, the Ahbash have "normal" and "friendly" relations with Hizballah, while expressing misgivings about the latter's violent activities.84

Despite their doctrinal sympathy with 'Ali and Shi'ism, the Ahbash are careful not to appear too close to the Shi'a, which risks alienating their Sunni constituency, as happened to Shaykh Sha'ban of Harakat al-Tawhid of Tripoli.85

.... the Ahbash and Hizballah concluded an undeclared alliance in Beirut that assured the election of their respective candidates, 'Adnan Trabulsi and Muhammad Burjawi.86

While maintaining amicable ties, the Ahbash have been singularly reluctant to support Hizballah's call for an Iranian-style Islamic order in Lebanon as a substitute for its present consociational system.

In view of their strong endorsement of consociationalism and their opposition to an Islamic state, the Ahbash have found a natural ally in the Amal movement, which also shares with the Ahbash a proSyrian orientation...

With respect to Lebanon's Sunni religious establishment-the Sunni Juridical Office-the Ahbash maintain an uncooperative attitude.
http://ddc.aub.edu.lb/projects/pspa/al-ahbash.html