[BEyng6hj]

In what way is Turkey moving in modern times nearer to the Right Path?

[BigMovies]

-Dismantling secularist military powers and their plots (ergenekon),
-Giving social accettability to ladies covering with hijab,
And a few other points which hopefully are leading Turkey far from its kemalist kufr, and hopefully in future to complete Shari'ah, instead of "islamic democracy"..

[Kragh]

In what way is Turkey moving in modern times nearer to the Right Path?

When you have secularism which respects religion, minorities and majorities of their respective beliefs work to their full. America is a good example of secularism combined with pro-religious government - a model of governance which made it a world superpower.
Pro Islamic whilst being true to the secular model of governance will make turkey even better because the society is of a better faith system.
I think the line of thinking of affiliating secularism with the devil or with kufr or with anti-islamic is totally brainless. I parallel such thinking to christians/atheists who say stupid statements like islam is of the anti-christ. They make a judgement based on ignorance.Secularism is no hindrance to a believers highest pursuit of faith, devotion or deeds. It infact it allows full room for the highest aims. Anti-religious secularism which can be smelled in the french model or the earlier turkish model is the one which is dangerous. That should not be a reason to dismiss the success of secularism. WE dont dismiss ISlam because of extermist terrorist and most of us relegate those acts to deeds far from religion's inspiration. So should we not dismiss secularism based on few examples of where it goes wrong like the french banning religious attire or other religious symbols. So many countries one can list where secularism rules and where muslims are happy and can live their faith- canada, australia, singapore, kenya, south africa, sri lanka, USA, UK. I have lived in east africa a secular christian country most of my life. Before al-shabab started its fitan in our land we had the most cordial relationship between kenyan muslims and christians. The government allowed and continues to allow 10-15% of muslims mosque construction un-restricted, halal food and rarely do media or politicians make anti-islamic statements. If we lived in a theocracy it would have been miserable.
The only country with ISlamic sharia is supposedly saudi arabia. To be honest I see no evidence of scientific pursuit, modernism and even the statement that piety and faithfullness of saudi muslims is in the top percentile is a highly comical statement.
I am just trying to say turkey on the grounds of secularism and being pro-religious will take it very very far this century. Secularism should be the model of governance of 21st century Muslim World.

[Trissinas]

What is Turkey doing in Afghanistan & in NATO forces ?

[SappyAppy]

@mubakr
Akhi my aim was regarding the progress on the Right Path. Secular path is a different ball game altogether.
@bummenot
So we can suggest that withdrawing from Afghanistan could be good step in their journey towards the Right Path.

This thread originated in the turn that the discussion on the current Harun Yahya thread took.
My assertion was that to dissociate from Kamalist vision is a mighty difficult task for our Turkish brothers - if there are any who think in the same way.
I had inquired whether there are people like that in modern day Turkey.
Sister Acacia was of the opinion that there people like that.
I was a fan of Harun Yahya's work as well as the things that hear about Gulen movement.
But to make one's own opinion all alone is usually a risky enterprise.
Hence the thread.

[RafaelYV]

When you have secularism which respects religion, minorities and majorities of their respective beliefs work to their full. America is a good example of secularism combined with pro-religious government - a model of governance which made it a world superpower.
Pro Islamic whilst being true to the secular model of governance will make turkey even better because the society is of a better faith system.
I think the line of thinking of affiliating secularism with the devil or with kufr or with anti-islamic is totally brainless. I parallel such thinking to christians/atheists who say stupid statements like islam is of the anti-christ. They make a judgement based on ignorance.Secularism is no hindrance to a believers highest pursuit of faith, devotion or deeds. It infact it allows full room for the highest aims. Anti-religious secularism which can be smelled in the french model or the earlier turkish model is the one which is dangerous. That should not be a reason to dismiss the success of secularism. WE dont dismiss ISlam because of extermist terrorist and most of us relegate those acts to deeds far from religion's inspiration. So should we not dismiss secularism based on few examples of where it goes wrong like the french banning religious attire or other religious symbols. So many countries one can list where secularism rules and where muslims are happy and can live their faith- canada, australia, singapore, kenya, south africa, sri lanka, USA, UK. I have lived in east africa a secular christian country most of my life. Before al-shabab started its fitan in our land we had the most cordial relationship between kenyan muslims and christians. The government allowed and continues to allow 10-15% of muslims mosque construction un-restricted, halal food and rarely do media or politicians make anti-islamic statements. If we lived in a theocracy it would have been miserable.
The only country with ISlamic sharia is supposedly saudi arabia. To be honest I see no evidence of scientific pursuit, modernism and even the statement that piety and faithfullness of saudi muslims is in the top percentile is a highly comical statement.
I am just trying to say turkey on the grounds of secularism and being pro-religious will take it very very far this century. Secularism should be the model of governance of 21st century Muslim World.

Lets just first delve into the term Secularism. The word according to Wikipedia means "Secularism is the principle of separation between government institutions and the persons mandated to represent the State from religious institutions and religious dignitaries." Just ponder upon your words in bold above.

Brother, using the definition I just quoted Secularism goes against and in many cases is totally contradictory to what Shariah is. When you implement a system where the government institutions are separate and independent from religious institutions and dignitaries you are implementing a system which has no Hudood (the punishments ordained in Shariah e.g Rajm etc). This kind of a system portrays an essence of what we know today as 'individual Islam' meaning that Islam of a person is in NO way effective to his surrounding even if he commits adultery or drinks Alcohol etc.

When you say that Secularism has its benefits to some extent you are saying that Urine has its benefits to some extent in comparison to Shariah (water). Brother, There have been only 2 kinds of people in the world, first are the Believers and second the disbelievers. Similarly, there are only 2 types of systems in this world, either it is the System of Kufr whether it be in the form of Democracy, Secularism, Communism and Capitalism or it is Islamic Shariah. Only Islamic Shariah is what will bring Peace in this world as according to the Quran declaration.

Edit: Lastly, just a correction Saudi Arab is in NO way an Islamic state. Just by implementing the Hudood does not make it Islamic. It is still a monarchy where kings are made according to heirs of the kings who ruled before!

[iDzcs7TU]

When you have secularism which respects religion, minorities and majorities of their respective beliefs work to their full. America is a good example of secularism combined with pro-religious government - a model of governance which made it a world superpower.
Pro Islamic whilst being true to the secular model of governance will make turkey even better because the society is of a better faith system.
I think the line of thinking of affiliating secularism with the devil or with kufr or with anti-islamic is totally brainless. I parallel such thinking to christians/atheists who say stupid statements like islam is of the anti-christ. They make a judgement based on ignorance.Secularism is no hindrance to a believers highest pursuit of faith, devotion or deeds. It infact it allows full room for the highest aims. Anti-religious secularism which can be smelled in the french model or the earlier turkish model is the one which is dangerous. That should not be a reason to dismiss the success of secularism. WE dont dismiss ISlam because of extermist terrorist and most of us relegate those acts to deeds far from religion's inspiration. So should we not dismiss secularism based on few examples of where it goes wrong like the french banning religious attire or other religious symbols. So many countries one can list where secularism rules and where muslims are happy and can live their faith- canada, australia, singapore, kenya, south africa, sri lanka, USA, UK. I have lived in east africa a secular christian country most of my life. Before al-shabab started its fitan in our land we had the most cordial relationship between kenyan muslims and christians. The government allowed and continues to allow 10-15% of muslims mosque construction un-restricted, halal food and rarely do media or politicians make anti-islamic statements. If we lived in a theocracy it would have been miserable.
The only country with ISlamic sharia is supposedly saudi arabia. To be honest I see no evidence of scientific pursuit, modernism and even the statement that piety and faithfullness of saudi muslims is in the top percentile is a highly comical statement.
I am just trying to say turkey on the grounds of secularism and being pro-religious will take it very very far this century. Secularism should be the model of governance of 21st century Muslim World.

Juda ho deen siasat se to reh jati hai changezi!

[Cabinanteerip]

When you have secularism which respects religion, minorities and majorities of their respective beliefs work to their full. America is a good example of secularism combined with pro-religious government - a model of governance which made it a world superpower.
Pro Islamic whilst being true to the secular model of governance will make turkey even better because the society is of a better faith system.
I think the line of thinking of affiliating secularism with the devil or with kufr or with anti-islamic is totally brainless. I parallel such thinking to christians/atheists who say stupid statements like islam is of the anti-christ. They make a judgement based on ignorance.Secularism is no hindrance to a believers highest pursuit of faith, devotion or deeds. It infact it allows full room for the highest aims. Anti-religious secularism which can be smelled in the french model or the earlier turkish model is the one which is dangerous. That should not be a reason to dismiss the success of secularism. WE dont dismiss ISlam because of extermist terrorist and most of us relegate those acts to deeds far from religion's inspiration. So should we not dismiss secularism based on few examples of where it goes wrong like the french banning religious attire or other religious symbols. So many countries one can list where secularism rules and where muslims are happy and can live their faith- canada, australia, singapore, kenya, south africa, sri lanka, USA, UK. I have lived in east africa a secular christian country most of my life. Before al-shabab started its fitan in our land we had the most cordial relationship between kenyan muslims and christians. The government allowed and continues to allow 10-15% of muslims mosque construction un-restricted, halal food and rarely do media or politicians make anti-islamic statements. If we lived in a theocracy it would have been miserable.
The only country with ISlamic sharia is supposedly saudi arabia. To be honest I see no evidence of scientific pursuit, modernism and even the statement that piety and faithfullness of saudi muslims is in the top percentile is a highly comical statement.
I am just trying to say turkey on the grounds of secularism and being pro-religious will take it very very far this century. Secularism should be the model of governance of 21st century Muslim World.

Secularism is kufr, there is no other model for the Muslim World than the Shari'ah and Islamic ideology and politics, it doesn't matter if we're in the 8th, the 15th, the 21th or the 30th century.

What is Turkey doing in Afghanistan & in NATO forces ?

Indeed you raised an hot important topic.
Anyway I don't think anyone here said that Turkey has became a 100% Islamic State. We were just considering a few good steps it recently made in the right direction, away from kemalism and secularism.
But indeed the presence of Turkey in Afghanistan is a huge negative issue.

[katetomson]

WE dont dismiss ISlam because of extermist terrorist and most of us relegate those acts to deeds far from religion's inspiration.

The extremist terrorists being Ali Abdullah Saleh, Bashar Al-Assad, Karzai, King Abdullah and Zardari. Right?

p.s I think these people must be regarded as people whose deeds are far from religious inspiration!

[slima]

When the basis of the government is not Islam, any step that may appear 'good' is not "going on the Right Path" for me. These are cosmetic changes and politics.
Of course any action that benefits muslims is 'good', be it in muslim or non-muslim countries but that doesn't mean we should go mad about that country.

Wassalam.

[sykanaxer]

When the basis of the government is not Islam, any step that may appear 'good' is not "going on the Right Path" for me. These are cosmetic changes and politics.
Of course any action that benefits muslims is good, be it in muslim or non-muslim countries but that doesn't mean we should go mad about that country.

Wassalam.

I agree. The basis of the government is the most important factor. When these basis stand on Quran and Sunnah, no matter what happens, all the steps taken would be in the right direction. Today the problem in secular 'Muslim' countries (I call them Muslim because there Muslim majorities that reside in them) is that we see some steps taken for the 'good' but actually these steps were not taken for betterment of Ummah but to fulfill the desires of the tyrants. The purpose of these governments is not to SERVE Muslims but to serve their tummies!

[LSDDSL]

What is Turkey doing in Afghanistan & in NATO forces ?

Salam Alaikum,

Turkey is doing really good in Afghanistan especially in the fields of education.Turkey has built many schools (Afghan-Turk Schools), they are ranked 1st in Afghanistan and their students achieve highest marks. Afghan-Turk schools are incomparable. Moreover, the reputation of Turkey in Afghanistan is excellent amongst the Afghans.

May Allah bless Turkey for supporting their Muslims brothers/sisters.

Afghan-Turk School, Balkh Province

Afghan-Turk School, Kandahar Province

[CiccoineFed]

the prophet SAW excercised patients during political developments and changed things slowly in a wise manner, this is our example inshAllah. Dont think that we can just link all the muslim nations together as a khilafaah over night with full shariah.

Look at egypt when the president was assasinated. No shariah, no islamic state, instead they got mubarak. Why? because the people of egypt dont want shariah. Dawah precedes the islamic state, you wont pursuade a nation of hedonistic secularists to change their nation into an islamic state

[virtuah]

IT seems from these replies that people dont understand secularism. Even though its the clearly the only model to have worked in modern times for both muslim and non-muslim countries. We have working examples of its success e.g. in Turkey and most western nation states. We have had attempts at 'sharia'. Why i put 'sharia' in inverted commas is that I dont think anyone apart from God and His messenger fully and truly understands what Allah's complete will is in all matters. And besides Islam's multiple orientations in today's time make a single common religious perspective very difficult to implement.

Therre are numerous models of 'sharia' in place or people who thought they will institute a sharia led community
1. taliban
2. al-shabab
3. Saud-wahhabi arabia
4. Islamic republic of Iran
5. Bandar Aceh
These are few examples of 'sharia' in practice in the modern world.

Anyones why I am putting all these things here is that if the Sunni world doesnot come to acknowledge that today's modern nation states are run best by secularism which is favorable towards religion then we will waste the 21st century not able to construct a proper way of running country and government. What i think people fail to understand is that secularism actually favors the practice of authentic religion rather than hypocrisy of compulsion. I cite turkey as being on the right path because they have pursued the path of secularism whilst holding fast to tradition of religion. Also I must add democracy. Democracy goes hand in hand with Islam. If the Muslims are not happy with a ruler he can be evicted. IF they are not happy with his ruling also then there can be referendums to overturn that ruling.

And to add, I am expressing all this is because I think its important that Muslim realized quickly that secularism and Democracy will be the model of government for most nations in this world. No elite of society will come to a different conclusion if he thinks in the best interest of society. Religion is supposed to be developed, spread and disseminated by non-legislative institutions not by government and ministries. IF I am in ministry of health, I focus not on fatwa's but just on providing health and welfare to my people. I have to also add that I have lived in three varied countries - a eastafrican christian secular country, a muslim asian secular country and a western -'christian by name/atheist' secular country. All three implement secularism and democracy in their non-ideal forms. But even then with the semi-authentic models and with lack of true Islamic spirit in governance I have been blessed to have unrestricted religious liberties going to mosques, praying at workplace/school place and eating halal food and following the halal way. In none of the three countries do I think that were a religious government in place I would have been more religious. I could have infact become less religious seeing all the artifical show of piety like in saudi arabia.

[Agedprepdoock]

According to this; "Kemalism is dead, but not auturk", interesting read - http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....t-not-ataturk/

[Logaleta]

Salam Alaikum,

Turkey is doing really good in Afghanistan especially in the fields of education.Turkey has built many schools (Afghan-Turk Schools), they are ranked 1st in Afghanistan and their students achieve highest marks. Afghan-Turk schools are incomparable. Moreover, the reputation of Turkey in Afghanistan is excellent amongst the Afghans.

May Allah bless Turkey for supporting their Muslims brothers/sisters.

Afghan-Turk School, Balkh Province

Afghan-Turk School, Kandahar Province

You've addressed one part of the question. Thats commendable.
What about the other part related to NATO forces?

[adverwork]

IT seems from these replies that people dont understand secularism.

My personal experience is that many of the brothers who comment here do have a wide understanding of the matters. Secularism is not a new idea to us Muslims.
Even though its the clearly the only model to have worked in modern times for both muslim and non-muslim countries. We have working examples of its success e.g. in Turkey and most western nation states. Practical success is rather obvious idea to judge an idea but it is hopelessly incomplete.
Oswald was an excellent marksman and even the most nimble military people are left with awe by his action.
But his activity remains undesirable. We shall not talk about Third Reich.

The point is not success. Every single dime of money, every single square meter of land for ruling will come in our possession that has been destined. The problem is whether we get it through Halaal means or not.
And hence it really boils down to the following: Are our actions according to Shariah? Every single step outside that is a mistake and a loss. Let not get blinded by the worldly success.

Just see, for a pleasant example, the wealth of oil. What did our Muslim brothers did to deserve that? Allah (SWT) gave all this wealth to nationalism obsessed Arabs!

We have had attempts at 'sharia'. Why i put 'sharia' in inverted commas is that I dont think anyone apart from God and His messenger fully and truly understands what Allah's complete will is in all matters. And besides Islam's multiple orientations in today's time make a single common religious perspective very difficult to implement. It does sound like pragmatic but I doubt it. We are only responsible for our attempts and that is all. If there is too much of scattering in our ranks then it is because of the fact that we have ignored some problems for far too long. The solution is to take up the problem - not to give up.
Therre are numerous models of 'sharia' in place or people who thought they will institute a sharia led community
1. taliban
2. al-shabab
3. Saud-wahhabi arabia
4. Islamic republic of Iran
5. Bandar Aceh
These are few examples of 'sharia' in practice in the modern world. In spite of the secular framework Turkey has taken some steps that I personally feel happy about. I have mentioned R.T.Ardughan's Somalia visit. His attempt to bring the errant Army General is a big positive development.

My argument is that if we can implement one Islamic concept at one place then it has proven its practicability.
If Pakistan has strict standards on public drinking then so can be the case in Tunisia, sooner or later.

And again the question is about Turkey's current orientation. Are there other indications apart from the obvious positive and negative points?
Anyones why I am putting all these things here is that if the Sunni world doesnot come to acknowledge that today's modern nation states are run best by secularism which is favorable towards religion then we will waste the 21st century not able to construct a proper way of running country and government. What i think people fail to understand is that secularism actually favors the practice of authentic religion rather than hypocrisy of compulsion. I cite turkey as being on the right path because they have pursued the path of secularism whilst holding fast to tradition of religion. Also I must add democracy. Democracy goes hand in hand with Islam. If the Muslims are not happy with a ruler he can be evicted. IF they are not happy with his ruling also then there can be referendums to overturn that ruling. Secularism is, at its best, religion neutrality.
Allah (SWT) says in Surah Asr that you are in a state of loss if you do not fall towards the side of Truth=Islam.
Any invitation to secularism is an invitation to loss. No one likes loss. Muslims might be in a state of shock because of the painful events of the recent past but they do maintain some awareness. May Allah (SWT) be with the Ummah.
And to add, I am expressing all this is because I think its important that Muslim realized quickly that secularism and Democracy will be the model of government for most nations in this world. Such prophecies have an element of supplication.
Supplications of a Muslim should be for guidance on the Right Path.
Even if secularism is the ideology of future we Muslims should take it as a sign of coming trial rather than of opportunity.
No elite of society will come to a different conclusion if he thinks in the best interest of society. Religion is supposed to be developed, spread and disseminated by non-legislative institutions not by government and ministries. IF I am in ministry of health, I focus not on fatwa's but just on providing health and welfare to my people. Christian Church indulged in atrocities.
As a result, Christians shunned the Church and turned to separation of Church and state.
Why should we too go down the drain?
I have to also add that I have lived in three varied countries - a eastafrican christian secular country, a muslim asian secular country and a western -'christian by name/atheist' secular country. All three implement secularism and democracy in their non-ideal forms. If any non-Islamic system shows signs of success then it only means that they might be doing something right. Here right = according to Islam. Falsehood does not have the property to be successful in the long run.

It is un-Islamic to pin our hopes on non-Islamic principles.
But even then with the semi-authentic models and with lack of true Islamic spirit in governance I have been blessed to have unrestricted religious liberties going to mosques, praying at workplace/school place and eating halal food and following the halal way. In none of the three countries do I think that were a religious government in place I would have been more religious. I could have infact become less religious seeing all the artifical show of piety like in saudi arabia. It is nice that you are thankful to secular system.
Thanks to Allah (SWT) are still due.
Thanking Allah (SWT) means using his blessings in the service of His Deen, or at least according to Shariah.

But anyway this thread is about the visible signs of movement of Turkey in the direction of Right Path.

[WenPyclenoWex]

Are our actions according to Shariah? Every single step outside that is a mistake and a loss.

Secularism is, at its best, religion neutrality.

Supplications of a Muslim should be for guidance on the Right Path.

It is un-Islamic to pin our hopes on non-Islamic principles.

Thanks to Allah (SWT) are still due..

Thanks you for your response brother.
Let me clarify that its your misunderstanding and other anti-secularist who view secularism inherently an anti-islamic concept.
Secularism allows pluralism. Secularism is not making legislation which should have at their root aim to oppose Islam. That is irrational perspective on secularism.
A muslim society can have a government which views Alcohol as harmful and destructive force to society and can use its authority to curtain or discourage the use of that like how the western nations deal with cigarettes. What you people dont understand is that a Muslim parliament can vote with a muslim consience. No one is saying that in a secular Muslim parliament everyone has to behave like Quran and Sunnah doesnt exist.
What is important to me and muslims of my mind is that Muslim countries surpass global standards of governance and prosperity. We excel in human rights, social equity and scientific success. But most of our ulema who use 'sharia' will say dont associate with the infidels and I wont be surprised if such a clause is made into law. OR in another month legislation may be passed where ulema comes to tell us that all who dont pray friday prayer need to be flogged. Or that a person seen on internet committing adultery now has to be stoned to death or for e.g. that a women raped should not abort her fetus. These are rulings which are grey and there implementation is best left to Allah and his messenger. Why I say this is we do not know what Allah and his messengers perspective on the issue. Guessing is not appropriate. However secularism will allow individual choice and respect individual autonomy. If someone wants to associate with an infidel in study or work its his choice and between the person and Allah. If someone misses a friday prayer because of whatever reason he saw fit its between him and Allah. If a women aborts a fetus because she wants to erase the trauma of her rape its between her and Allah. I can list several example, if i want to eat ahle-kitab meat because I am salafi I am free to do that in a deoband sunni majority secular country. If I am a salafi alim I can criticize the founders of the four great madhabs if I think they made a ruling which goes against Sunnah.

SO secularism is practical, Islamic and allows rigorous debate of issues without restricting thought and intellect. Once you say 'sharia' will rule us. Then a certain groups islamic perspective on sharia comes to fore light and no respect is given to other groups.

[10traistintarry]

Thanks you for your response brother.
Let me clarify that its your misunderstanding and other anti-secularist who view secularism inherently an anti-islamic concept.
Secularism allows pluralism. Secularism is not making legislation which should have at their root aim to oppose Islam. That is irrational perspective on secularism.
A muslim society can have a government which views Alcohol as harmful and destructive force to society and can use its authority to curtain or discourage the use of that like how the western nations deal with cigarettes. What you people dont understand is that a Muslim parliament can vote with a muslim consience. No one is saying that in a secular Muslim parliament everyone has to behave like Quran and Sunnah doesnt exist.
What is important to me and muslims of my mind is that Muslim countries surpass global standards of governance and prosperity. We excel in human rights, social equity and scientific success. But most of our ulema who use 'sharia' will say dont associate with the infidels and I wont be surprised if such a clause is made into law. OR in another month legislation may be passed where ulema comes to tell us that all who dont pray friday prayer need to be flogged. Or that a person seen on internet committing adultery now has to be stoned to death or for e.g. that a women raped should not abort her fetus. These are rulings which are grey and there implementation is best left to Allah and his messenger. Why I say this is we do not know what Allah and his messengers perspective on the issue. Guessing is not appropriate. However secularism will allow individual choice and respect individual autonomy. If someone wants to associate with an infidel in study or work its his choice and between the person and Allah. If someone misses a friday prayer because of whatever reason he saw fit its between him and Allah. If a women aborts a fetus because she wants to erase the trauma of her rape its between her and Allah. I can list several example, if i want to eat ahle-kitab meat because I am salafi I am free to do that in a deoband sunni majority secular country. If I am a salafi alim I can criticize the founders of the four great madhabs if I think they made a ruling which goes against Sunnah.

SO secularism is practical, Islamic and allows rigorous debate of issues without restricting thought and intellect. Once you say 'sharia' will rule us. Then a certain groups islamic perspective on sharia comes to fore light and no respect is given to other groups.

You are talking about secularism again akhi.
Been there, done that.
It is no man's land. It is better to steer clear of that.

Supplications requested.

[Thomas12400]

Of course any action that benefits muslims is 'good', be it in muslim or non-muslim countries but that doesn't mean we should go mad about that country.

Wassalam.

Indeed; that may have been my case (going mad for a country) in the past but I don't think it's still so.
Still we should be able to judge concrete positive steps in the right direction - without this meaning losing objectivity of covering negative facts.

Salam Alaikum,

Turkey is doing really good in Afghanistan especially in the fields of education.Turkey has built many schools (Afghan-Turk Schools), they are ranked 1st in Afghanistan and their students achieve highest marks. Afghan-Turk schools are incomparable. Moreover, the reputation of Turkey in Afghanistan is excellent amongst the Afghans.

May Allah bless Turkey for supporting their Muslims brothers/sisters.

Afghan-Turk School, Balkh Province

Afghan-Turk School, Kandahar Province

And is also doing a "really good" job in training the Afghan puppet Army of Karzai, which is used against Mujahidin.
Which is at least very bad and there are conditions to make takfir of those engaged in such activities.

IT seems from these replies that people dont understand secularism. Even though its the clearly the only model to have worked in modern times for both muslim and non-muslim countries. We have working examples of its success e.g. in Turkey and most western nation states. We have had attempts at 'sharia'. Why i put 'sharia' in inverted commas is that I dont think anyone apart from God and His messenger fully and truly understands what Allah's complete will is in all matters. And besides Islam's multiple orientations in today's time make a single common religious perspective very difficult to implement.

Therre are numerous models of 'sharia' in place or people who thought they will institute a sharia led community
1. taliban
2. al-shabab
3. Saud-wahhabi arabia
4. Islamic republic of Iran
5. Bandar Aceh
These are few examples of 'sharia' in practice in the modern world.

Anyones why I am putting all these things here is that if the Sunni world doesnot come to acknowledge that today's modern nation states are run best by secularism which is favorable towards religion then we will waste the 21st century not able to construct a proper way of running country and government. What i think people fail to understand is that secularism actually favors the practice of authentic religion rather than hypocrisy of compulsion. I cite turkey as being on the right path because they have pursued the path of secularism whilst holding fast to tradition of religion. Also I must add democracy. Democracy goes hand in hand with Islam. If the Muslims are not happy with a ruler he can be evicted. IF they are not happy with his ruling also then there can be referendums to overturn that ruling.

And to add, I am expressing all this is because I think its important that Muslim realized quickly that secularism and Democracy will be the model of government for most nations in this world. No elite of society will come to a different conclusion if he thinks in the best interest of society. Religion is supposed to be developed, spread and disseminated by non-legislative institutions not by government and ministries. IF I am in ministry of health, I focus not on fatwa's but just on providing health and welfare to my people. I have to also add that I have lived in three varied countries - a eastafrican christian secular country, a muslim asian secular country and a western -'christian by name/atheist' secular country. All three implement secularism and democracy in their non-ideal forms. But even then with the semi-authentic models and with lack of true Islamic spirit in governance I have been blessed to have unrestricted religious liberties going to mosques, praying at workplace/school place and eating halal food and following the halal way. In none of the three countries do I think that were a religious government in place I would have been more religious. I could have infact become less religious seeing all the artifical show of piety like in saudi arabia.

I do know secularism, and that's why I reject it as kufr.
But maybe you don't know that Islam is not just about Salah and Sawm, but rather, one of its obligation is also to implement Allah's law on Allah's land and having His Din reign supreme.
Secularist thought contradicts Islam openly, even if it lets Muslim pray. It contradicts it ideologically and on an 'Aqidah level, not in the meaning that it physically oppress Mulims' freedom (which, yes, may not be the case).

Allah revealed His Din and Law for all the times, until the Day of Judgment, so talks of "modernity" don't mean anything.

"Modernity" is just the colonial idea that Allah's Din somehow became "inactual" and "for the past". - Na'udhubillah.