[jdynwa]

As Salamu 'Alaikum,

My local Masjid is Salafi/Modernist dominated.

Today I went to masjid when Iqamah was going on. Everyone were preparing the rows.

I didnt pray my Fajr Sunnah, hence I went back and prayed my Sunnah & caught the Fard jamaat in the first rakaat itself.
After my Salah, one person came and said me to stop doing this practise as when Iqamah is said you shouldnt pray Sunnah.

I replied him that in my country India, we are doing this for 1000 years. It has been passed through various generations.
In US deen is just 30 years old, dont teach me anything from this country.

He answered that we must not follow India, Pakistan in matters of deen and they make mistakes. He said people are going from US to Al Azhar and learning the correct things and come to US. In other words, he mean to tell that deen in India is corrupt where as in Al-Azhar its preserved. I got really frustated after hearing this Jahil.

I replied him dont teach me deen. I am not going to listen in matters of deen to anyone, Sorry.

This is really frustating. When Iqamah is called people are not coming to Masjid. They are not worried about this.
Sometimes they think they are better than Imam Abu Hanifa (RA). La Hawla wala Quwatta illa billah

[ApporpSothe]

bump

[jokilewqs]

Islam vs Cultural traditions

its no brainier there to know what Muslims should follow

[reaciciomarep]

Don't argue with him. Just direct him to a Hanafi alim who can explain the mas'ala.

Also, you can show him this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW5phzHj-5c

[sniskelsowwef]

Don't argue with him. Just direct him to a Hanafi alim who can explain the mas'ala.

Also, you can show him this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FW5phzHj-5c

Thanks for the video,
These people wont understand this. When he said dont follow India , Pakistan - they make mistakes I understood about him.
As you said, its better to ignore these people.

[arindiruppya]

Offering Fajr Sunnah When Jamaah Has Started

By Mufti Taqi Usmani

Q.) Several of the brothers from Pakistan when they arrive late in Masjid (Fajr jamaah has started) they proceed to perform sunnah salat and ignore the fard salat. When asked we are told that this is permitted by Imam Abu Hanifah (Rahmat-ul-Allah alayh) if you feel that you can finish the sunnah before the Imam finishes the fard and is standard practice in Pakistan. I have never come across any hadith to this effect. The hadiths copied below seem to negate this idea.

(1) Abu Hurairah reports that the Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, said: "Whoever fails to pray the two (sunnah) rak'ahs of Fajr until the sun rises, (he should then) pray them." (Reported by Bayhaqi. Nawawi says its chain is good.)

(2) Qays ibn Umar relates that he went to the Fajr prayer and found the Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, praying. Although Qays had not prayed the sunnah prayer, he joined the Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, and prayed with him. When he had finished salat al-Fajr, he prayed the two rak'ahs (sunnah) prayer. The Messenger of Allah passed by him and inquired: "What is this prayer?" Qays then informed him of all that had happened. The Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, kept silent and did not say anything. (Reported by Ahmad, Ibn Khuzaymah, Ibn Hibban, Tirmidhi, Abu Dawud and Ibn Majah. Al-Iraqi says its chain is Hasan.)

(According to the principles of fiqh, if the Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, kept silent on something, it meant he must have approved of it. Otherwise, he would have been obliged to speak out against it.)

(3) Ahmad, Bukhari and Muslim relate from Imran ibn Husayn that, during a journey, the Prophet, Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, slept past the time of salat al-Fajr and when he woke he waited for the sun to rise a little and then he ordered the mu'adhdhin to make the adhan. Then, the Prophet , Sall-Allahu alayhi wa sallam, prayed the Fajr sunnah, after which he ordered the iqamah to be made and prayed salat al-Fajr.

It is apparent from this hadith that one is to make up the sunnah prayer before or after the sun rises, regardless of whether only the sunnah prayer is missed or both the sunnah and fard are missed, are whether there is a valid excuse or not. It may be made up by itself or with the obligatory dawn prayer. (Ashmead M. All)

A.) There is a difference of opinion among the Muslim jurists on the question whether a person who comes to the Masjid for praying sunnah of Fajr and finds the jamaah started should join the jamaah immediately or should pray sunnah first and then join the jamaah. The opinion of Imam Al-Shafi'i and Imam Ahmad is that he should join the jamaah and pray sunnah after the jamaah is finished, either before sun rise or after that. On the other hand Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Malik are of the views that if one expects to find at least one rakat of the jamaah he may pray sunnah preferably in his home or at a place in the Masjid which is distant from the Imam. This view of Imam Abu Hanifah's based firstly on the Mutawatir Ahadith prohibiting any prayer after the fard of Fajr upto the sun rise and secondly on the basis of the practice of a large number of Sahaba who used to pray sunnat before they joined the jamaah. This practice is reported from Abdullah Ibn 'Umar, Abdullah ibn Masud, Abdullah ibn Abbas and Abu al-Darda (Radi-Allahu anhum ajma'een). These reports may be seen in Tahavi 1:183 and Musannaf Abdur Razzaq v.2 p.444 No. 4021 etc.

So far as the Hadith you have quoted from Qays Ibn Amr, Imam al-Tirmidhi has mentioned that the chain of its narrators is broken. Moreover, this Hadith is reported in different versions. Therefore, this narration is not held by Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Malik to be of such a status that may repudiate the rule prescribed in the Mutawatir Ahadith that no prayer after fard of Fajr is allowed until sun rises.

It is to be noted that such differences in the opinions of the Muslims Jurists have long been discussed and debated. Every Muslim Jurist has some basis in the Qur'an, Sunnah or in the practice of the Sahabah and their differing views are based on various interpretations of the same resources of the Islamic Shariah. Therefore, whoever adopts a practice based on any one of these schools of interpretation should not be blamed of violating the Shariah or the Sunnah, nor should these differences be taken as a means of creating disputes or quarrels between the Muslims because every Muslim Jurist did his best to reach the truth and no one is totally incorrect.

http://www.albalagh.net/qa/fajrsunnah.shtml

also see:
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/show...re-Fajr-prayer

[lesso73]

Question

I have a question regarding the rules of Fajr salaat i.e

1. Is it permissible to read the 2 rakaat sunnat after fardh namaaz if one is going to miss the fardh salaat;
2. If one is going to miss the first rakaat or more of the fardh salaat, does one still read the 2 rakaats sunnat or does one join the jamaat (and read later based on answer in 1 above);
3. Can one read fajr kazaa right until zohar salaat or can it only be read after maghrib
Answer

In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful.

As-salāmu ‘alaykum wa-rahmatullāhi wa-barakātuh.

If one assumes that he may miss the second rakaat or tashahhud of the second rakaat of the Fajr fardh salaah and he has not completed the sajdah of the second rakaat of the sunnah salaah[1], he should break his sunnah salaah and join the jamaat (congregation) of the Fajr fardh salaah.However, it will be waajib (imperative) to repeat the sunnah salaah that was abandoned to join the fardh salaah.[2]

It is advisable to perform the sunnah salaah while the jamaat has already commenced outside the demarcated masjid area as it is makrooh (abominable) to pray the two rakaat of sunnah in the demarcated masjid area. You may perform the Sunnah salaah in the sehn (courtyard area) or some other place of the masjid.[3]

If the Fajr fardh salaah was missed together with the sunnah salaah, then both the sunnah and the Fajr qadha should be performed after sunrise until the pre-zawaal time .After the zawaal time, the performance of only the fardh salaah remains obligatory and not the sunnah salaah.[4]

If only the fardh salaah was missed and not the sunnah salaah, then the qadha of the fardh salaah can be performed at any time provided it is not in the non-permissible times(makrooh) which are : zawaal(zenithal time), sunrise and sunset.

It will be makrooh tanzeehi(undesirable) to perform the two rakaats sunnah of the fajr salaah after the performance of the fajr fardh salaah until sunrise.[5]One should perform the missed sunnah salaah after sunrise until the pre-zawaal time.[6]

In future, prepare well in advance for the Fajr fardh salaah in order to avoid such circumstances. Rasullullah (s.a.w) has greatly emphasized the performance of the two rakaat sunnah of the Fajr salaah.[7]



And Allah Ta’āla Knows Best

Ismail Bin Ebrahim Desai
Durban, South Africa
Student Darul Iftaa
Checked and Approved
Mufti Ebrahim Desai.
www.daruliftaa.net

و من خاف فوت الفجر ان اديسنته ايتم و تركها و الا لا. كنز الدقاءق.73/2 (1

و ان كان في صلاة الفجر و قد صلي ركعة منها ثم اقيمت الفرض في ذلك المسجد قطعها احرازا لفضيلةالجماعة.محيط البرهاني.(244/2

احرز احقهما و هو الجماعة. رد المحتار.56/2

در المختار.56/2

ان امن فوته و و بادراكه في التشهد. مراقي الفلاح.270



بل يصليها عند باب المسجد ان وجد مكانا و الا تركها.در المختار.56/2(2

و يكره التطوع في المسجد و الناس في المكتوبة.خلاصة الفتاوي.159/1.رشيدية

فتاوي محموديه.257/11



و لم تقض سنة الفجر الا بفوتها مع الفرض الي الزوال لا بعد الزوال اتفاقا.مراقي الفلاح.271(3

فتاوي محموديه.260/11

فيقضيها تبعا لقضاءه لو قبل الزوال.رد المحتار.57/11

واما اذا فاتت وحدها فلا تقضي قبل طلوع الشمس بالاجماع لكراهية النفل بعد الصبح(4

(مراقي الفلاح علي هامش الطحطاوي.368)

فتاوي محمودية. 259/11

تقضي اذا فاتت بلا فرض بعد الطلوع الي الزوال استحسانا

(مجمع الانهر.211/1)



وقال محمد احب الي ان يقضيها الي الزوال كما في الدرر.قيل هذا قريب من الاتفاق. رد المحتار.57/2.كراشي.282/1.نعمانية(5

(فتاوي محموديه . 260/11.مكتبة محموديه)



و يقضيها بعد ما طلعت الشمس عند محمد.محيط البرهاني. 10/2

يكره فيهما التطوع و هما بعد طلوع الفجر الي طلوعالشمس. محيط البرهاني.10/2



لانه لو قيدها بالسجدة لا يمكنه القطع بعدذلك. محيط البرهاني.244/2 (6



[7] Mishkaatul-Masaabeeh,pg.104, vol.1.Abu Dawood, pg.179, vol.1.

http://www.askimam.org/public/question_detail/19539

[qQVXpYM6]

As Salamu 'Alaikum,

I replied him dont teach me deen. I am not going to listen in matters of deen to anyone, Sorry.

Walaikum Salam,

You should welcome and be happy when people give you advice instead of acting arrogantly.

[wgX44EEn]

Walaikum Salam,

You should welcome and be happy when people give you advice instead of acting arrogantly.

As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

I am going to have to agree on this. This situation could have been handled a lot better.

First of all, saying "don't teach me anything" comes across arrogant, whether you intend it or not.

Secondly, instead of giving a vague answer that this practice has been going on in India for 1000's generations, you could have instead pointed out that it's the position of the Hanafi madhbad. Not everybody associates India with scholarship. Even though I know the Hanafi Madhab is well established in India, I did not at first occur to me that this is a position in the Hanafi Madhbad. It took me a couple of seconds to ask myself, "Is this a valid position in the Hanafi Madhbad?", to which we got an answer. Quite frankly, the first that came into my mind after hearing, "That's what we do in India", is a cultural practice precisely because the wording was so vague.

You could tell him that there is a scholarly difference of opinion on this matter when it comes to the four Madhabs. However, if he goes on to deny the validity of the Hanafi school, then you could point him out to some Hanafi resources on this matter. If that does not work, then you should just ignore him.

I don't think the affair was well-handled. The person whom you called a Jahil might just as well been a follower of the Shafi'i, Maliki or Hanbali Madhbad. Not everybody knows all the differences of opinion in the four Madhabs. Not everybody associates India with scholarship and the Hanafi Madhbad.

I hope this advice helps.

[art_fan_12]

No, what's arrogant is to approach people and presume to teach them when you yourself are ignorant.

[KRbGA0Bg]

First of all, saying "don't teach me anything" comes across arrogant, whether you intend it or not.

Secondly, instead of giving a vague answer that this practice has been going on in India for 1000's generations, you could have instead pointed out that it's the position of the Hanafi madhbad. Not everybody associates India with scholarship. Even though I know the Hanafi Madhab is well established in India, I did not at first occur to me that this is a position in the Hanafi Madhbad. It took me a couple of seconds to ask myself, "Is this a valid position in the Hanafi Madhbad?", to which we got an answer. Quite frankly, the first that came into my mind after hearing, "That's what we do in India", is a cultural practice precisely because the wording was so vague.

You could tell him that there is a scholarly difference of opinion on this matter when it comes to the four Madhabs. However, if he goes on to deny the validity of the Hanafi school, then you could point him out to some Hanafi resources on this matter. If that does not work, then you should just ignore him.

Yes, I was arrogant I agree.

I could have used it was Imam Abu Hanifas ruling, but these fools sometimes in Masjid discuss the fiqh and make criticize the ruling of one Imam over another. FYI, there is no Imam in the Masjid. If there was an Imam, this question wouldnt have come.

If I would have said Abu Hanifa's ruling, they would have said something and made my face red. Finally I said that we are following traditions from the time of Sahabas, that idiot was about to tell something. I said him "dont teach me deen" & went away.

I really get angry on people if they talk something irrelevant about Sahabas, Imams.
May Allah forgive me. And May Allah enlighten the graves of Sahabas, Imams

[Aizutox]

No, what's arrogant is to approach people and presume to teach them when you yourself are ignorant.

As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

Well the other position is a valid position in other schools, therefore, his advice was not out of sheer ignorance. I don't think a person has to be well-versed in all of the Madhabs and their opinions to give advice.

I don't think you have to view this thing in such a negative way. You could have some Husnu Ad-dhan and make excuses for the two of them. I am just point out to ServantofAllah how he could have better handled the situation or how he could handle it next time.

[aaaaaaaabbbby]

I really get angry on people if they talk something irrelevant about Sahabas, Imams.
May Allah forgive me. And May Allah enlighten the graves of Sahabas, Imams

As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

Yes, I agree. When people talk badly about the Imams (rah), it is quite frustrating.

However, I think next time you could explain this issue in a calm manner and point them out to Hanafi resources on this particular issue and the validity of the Madhab. I think that is the best course of action. I think the response could be a lot better if you pointed them out to some scholarly material than simply saying that is how it is done in India or don't teach me.

[Oberjej]

As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

Yes, I agree. When people talk badly about the Imams (rah), it is quite frustrating.

However, I think next time you could explain this issue in a calm manner and point them out to Hanafi resources on this particular issue and the validity of the Madhab. I think that is the best course of action. I think the response could be a lot better if you pointed them out to some scholarly material than simply saying that is how it is done in India or don't teach me.

I agree brother. But since I am in Jammat, they have the thinking that Jamaat people are jahils and dont know how to pray.
This is what heir assumption is.

I intentionally dont want to use a Madhab name here, as these people are Ghair MAdhabs - they would have commented something about Abu Hanifa(RA) which I dont want to hear.

[xanax-buy-online.com]

As-salamu 'alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuh

I still don't see why you should not pass them Hanafi material which explains the origins, validity and the positions of the school.

The reason for that is very simple. Not everybody knows about Madhbas all that well. The first thing they read about Madhabs is something which says, "Yes, there were Madhabs but they are false" or something to that effect. They don't know any better. And how would they if the other view is not even presented to them. It is not like the knowledge about Madhabs is something one is born with or it is known intuitively. If you were in their shoes, would you know any different? If you were in their shoes, would you like to be informed?

I don't know. You know best the situation. These are just some ideas.

[letmelogin]

As-salamu 'alaikum

By "Jamaat", I assume you are referring to Tabligh. You could inform them about that also. You could also pass the verdicts from other scholars, i.e. Azhar, that support the Hanafi school and the Tablighi movement.

I would add that you should not get involved in the arguements yourself. Just pass on the information. That's it.

[NerbuitW]

Let them follow the 1000 of years traditions of India and Pakistan while we follow Islam

its that simple