[ordercigsnick]

Due to the massive levels of debt:

see chart: http://azizonomics.files.wordpress.c...08/debtgdp.png

Only a debt jubilee will fix things, a debt jubilee is where debt is forgiven, see last paragraph below for details.

The crisis in 2008 was one fuelled by excessive total debt. As society became more and more indebted the costs of servicing debt became proportionally higher, which has made it harder for countries to grow. Instead of individuals and businesses investing their income or growing their business, a higher and higher proportion of income becomes taken up by the costs of paying down debt.

Historically in a free market system, these kinds of credit bubbles have ended in liquidation of the entire bubble and all the bad debt. However the Fed’s money printing since 2008 (much like the Bank of Japan’s money printing in the 90s) has done just enough to keep the debt load serviceable.

The worrying thing is that Japan — which experienced a very similar series of events in the 1990s — remains in a high-debt, low-growth deleveraging trap. While the USA has managed a small decrease in indebtedness since 2008, it could take a very, very long time — Steve Keen estimates up to 15 or 20 years — for the debt level to fall to a level where strong organic GDP and employment growth is possible again.

I think this underlines the importance of trying to achieve the effects of a debt reset in an orderly way before nature forces it upon us again, and before we have spent a long time stuck in the deleveraging trap with a huge debt load relative to GDP, elevated unemployment, and very low growth. The least unfair way of doing this would seem to be the modern debt jubilee advocated by Steve Keen — print money, and instead of pumping it into the financial system as per QE, use it to write down a portion (say, $6,000) of each person’s debt load, and send out cheques up to an equal amount to those who are not indebted. Unlike with quantitative easing, because everyone gets the same quantity of new money, nobody receives a disproportionate transfer of purchasing power via the Cantillon effect, as happens not only with quantitative easing but also with more traditional monetary policy operations such as interest rate cuts, which are strongly correlated with disproportionately strong growth in the financial sector and bank assets. And the inflationary impact of the new money would be shared equally by everyone — rather than screwing pensioners or savers — because everyone would receive the same amount.


http://azizonomics.com/

[Storwaytozy]

This video, which has just gone up on YouTube, tells the tale of the formation of the International Monetary Fund.

Interestingly, it's been placed on YouTube by the IMF itself, which has its own YouTube channel. You can read the description of the IMF above.

The newsreel, which must have been put together in the 1940s or early 1950s, sounds like any other Western propaganda of the time. The sonorous voice-over of the narrator telling us what to believe is especially noteworthy – and would be amusing if one didn't already know how much suffering the IMF has caused.

The entire construction of the fund is covered in just eight minutes and one could come away convinced, as many no doubt did, that the IMF was the brainchild of the "world community" – and was "essential to winning and preserving the peace."

Those were the words of Harry Dexter White, who is given a big role in explaining the IMF's progress throughout the newsreel. Of course, from a distance of 60 years we can see that virtually none of the promises made about the IMF were kept.

It hasn't proved to be an agent of peace but merely another facility of power elite exploitation. Nonetheless, it's instructive to see how it was pitched to a perhaps more gullible public yearning for institutions of prosperity after a troubled time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=s2OeN-im044
There is annoying music to the video in places.

[SQiTmhuY]

No comments?


An economist (Steve Keen) is suggesting that the debt crisis can be solved by a debt jubilee. So instead of the central bank printing money and giving it to insiders (known as Quantitative Easing or QE), it gives $6000 to every person in the country, those with debts can use the money to pay off their debts and those not in debt can spend it. So Bank bailouts are helping bankers, but this way would help everyone which is the least destructive and best of all, it will ameliorate the problems...maybe we can campaign to get rid of riba banking.

[Pippoles]

No comments?


An economist (Steve Keen) is suggesting that the debt crisis can be solved by a debt jubilee. So instead of the central bank printing money and giving it to insiders (known as Quantitative Easing or QE), it gives $6000 to every person in the country, those with debts can use the money to pay off their debts and those not in debt can spend it. So Bank bailouts are helping bankers, but this way would help everyone which is the least destructive and best of all, it will ameliorate the problems...maybe we can campaign to get rid of riba banking.

A debt jubilee is the best way forward - look at Iceland after their financial crisis - but it will be stopped by the same interests who always stand in front of whats best for the people. They are the same people who have colluded against other important developments when they realised they would no longer have a way of extracting taxes from the masses. In medieval England, the pauper used to pay tribute to the Nobility. Today, the same tribute is paid when ordinary folk have to pay high taxes, many times over for the same things, then get taxed by stealth (bank bailouts) to add to that. It is a whole system which is corrupt and driven by greed, the system of Riba.

Allahu A'lam

[plaiskegizils]

No comments?


An economist (Steve Keen) is suggesting that the debt crisis can be solved by a debt jubilee. So instead of the central bank printing money and giving it to insiders (known as Quantitative Easing or QE), it gives $6000 to every person in the country, those with debts can use the money to pay off their debts and those not in debt can spend it. So Bank bailouts are helping bankers, but this way would help everyone which is the least destructive and best of all, it will ameliorate the problems...maybe we can campaign to get rid of riba banking.

It is not surprising that the world economy is in difficulties when it's largest economy is in trouble.

Don't forget, that it all started when the London and New York financial system collapsed due to fraud and undeserved enrichment of the perpetrators.

Without real reform and re-regulation there is no solution.

[Squeernemergo]

Suppose the USA simply say that "we are not going to pay interest on these "debts" anymore". Who is going to tell them otherwise?

I'm no economist, but I don't really think the national debt really affects taxpayers. Most banks have paid back their bailout money, for example. At the end of the day, the banks will continue to lend money, because if they don't, where else will they go?

I think the real issue is the injustice of the current system. Giving banks the ability to lend against fractional reserve, and to bail them out when they screw up, is unfair. By doing this, they have an unfair advantage over other businesses who cannot simply create money from nothing, and who do not receive bailouts when they fail.

Consider a restaurant owner. His business starts to fail, whether due to mismanagement or other factors beyond his control. However, a cash infusion of $1 million would allow him to relocate, rebrand, whatever it takes to jump start the restaurant and eventually pay back the bailout money. Will the government bail him out? Will the banks? Obviously not. Yet the banks who fail due to horrendous negligence, mismanagement and fraud get bailed out. They take the bailout money, and return to the same practices that got them in hot water in the first place, turn a profit, pay back the bailout money, and then start the cycle again. Mind you, the fat salaries and bonuses paid out to execs aren't touchable. So the end result is, individuals profiting despite the fact that they produce nothing and screw up majorly. Pure injustice.

[Reocourgigiot]

USA will not payback any debt, its simple as that

[bingookenoo]

Suppose the USA simply say that "we are not going to pay interest on these "debts" anymore". Who is going to tell them otherwise?

America will always survive on free oil and money from Arab countries

to answer your question: Nobody

[newwebstar]

Suppose the USA simply say that "we are not going to pay interest on these "debts" anymore". Who is going to tell them otherwise?

When you USA, who do you mean - Public or Banking/Corporate institutions?

If it is the former, they have not the guts to tell the banks they are going to stop paying interest - they will be evicted shortly afterwards and put on the streets like these folk:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/panorama/hi/fro...00/9694094.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

If it is the latter, why would Banks agree to it? Its like Turkeys voting for Christmas.

Large chunks of US debt is IOU's to other countries central banks. What you'll find in the tangled web of global central banks, many of them represent the same interests and have the same backers.

And they all sit together at the IMF table to decide the next move.

Allahu A'lam

[fedelwfget]

I edited my previous post; please read.

[Bwvapays]

the more i learn about money and the economy, the less i know. one thing i do know is that the current riba backed money is one of the greatest fitnah known to mankind.


can someone explain this please...
where does the money that pays of the loans and interest to the banking corporations come from? it cannot come from the same source as the original loan as that would just create further interest based debts. does that mean the money has to come from the 'outside', ie from the money of another country? and the money of the other country will also have been generated as an interest based loan so does that mean on a global scale there will always be debt owed to the banking corporations?

please explain in laymans terms!

[AnIInWon]

[QUOTE][QUOTE=NNoor Suppose the USA simply say that "we are not going to pay interest on these "debts" anymore". Who is going to tell them otherwise?[/QUOTE]

As far as I know government collect taxes and pay the interest on the national debt. If the government refused to do this then the system would collapse. But governments continue because the people are too dumb and they do not know what goes on. And politicians can keep borrowing and spending making promises...because it is future generations who will pay when the politician is long gone.
I'm no economist, but I don't really think the national debt really affects taxpayers. Most banks have paid back their bailout money, for example. At the end of the day, the banks will continue to lend money, because if they don't, where else will they go? There is a phrase called zombie banks, it means the banks books are in the negative, they have assets and liabilities and their liabilities are much bigger than their assets. The bailouts have reduced some of their liabilities but they are so big they are still there. Banks are afraid to loan out their bailout money because they know that their own books/accounts are in bad shape, and other banks must also be the same. So they keep hold of the money.

I think the real issue is the injustice of the current system. Giving banks the ability to lend against fractional reserve, and to bail them out when they screw up, is unfair. By doing this, they have an unfair advantage over other businesses who cannot simply create money from nothing, and who do not receive bailouts when they fail. Exactly it is legal plunder and theft and they have been getting away with it and continue to do so even now. People should wake up. I am amazed that people are so passive and accepting. If someone daily robbed their wallet and took $20 they would be enranged...yet this theft conducted by the government and banks goes without any complaint. In the UK many dream of winning the National Lottery.

Consider a restaurant owner. His business starts to fail, whether due to mismanagement or other factors beyond his control. However, a cash infusion of $1 million would allow him to relocate, rebrand, whatever it takes to jump start the restaurant and eventually pay back the bailout money. Will the government bail him out? Will the banks? Obviously not. Yet the banks who fail due to horrendous negligence, mismanagement and fraud get bailed out. They take the bailout money, and return to the same practices that got them in hot water in the first place, turn a profit, pay back the bailout money, and then start the cycle again. Mind you, the fat salaries and bonuses paid out to execs aren't touchable. So the end result is, individuals profiting despite the fact that they produce nothing and screw up majorly. Pure injustice. Yes and there is a moral hazzard, if you reward bad behaviour with bailouts they are unlikely to change in the future, in fact they may become more reckless because they got bailed out last time. The consequence of bad actions is bankruptcy and this should teach them to change...but the government is protecting these criminals.

[massons]

=xs11ax;805710]

the more i learn about money and the economy, the less i know. one thing i do know is that the current riba backed money is one of the greatest fitnah known to mankind .

Agreed.

[JackTimQSR]

the more i learn about money and the economy, the less i know. one thing i do know is that the current riba backed money is one of the greatest fitnah known to mankind.


can someone explain this please...
where does the money that pays of the loans and interest to the banking corporations come from? it cannot come from the same source as the original loan as that would just create further interest based debts. does that mean the money has to come from the 'outside', ie from the money of another country? and the money of the other country will also have been generated as an interest based loan so does that mean on a global scale there will always be debt owed to the banking corporations?

please explain in laymans terms!

Where does it come from ? Good question bro.

They create it through fractional reserve and you work for it through real services or offer real goods in return for it. It does generally come from the same banking sources - just a different bank. When you have hit saturation point, they move onto the next man (next country) with their colour revolutions and drive to implement 'free market practices' (capitalism) under the guise of democracy. This is usually ushered in by a violent war to overthrow any religious/political/nationalistic obstacle that may just stand in the way of their scheme.

Allahu A'lam

[vasyasvc]

Where does it come from ? Good question bro.

They create it through fractional reserve and you work for it through real services or offer real goods in return for it. It does generally come from the same banking sources - just a different bank. When you have hit saturation point, they move onto the next man (next country) with their colour revolutions and drive to implement 'free market practices' (capitalism) under the guise of democracy. This is usually ushered in by a violent war to overthrow any religious/political/nationalistic obstacle that may just stand in the way of their scheme.

Allahu A'lam

[LfYaRf1S]

The debt crisis of US and EU leaves me feeling very conflicted. On one level, most of my extended family lives in the west and I do not want us thrown into poverty. On another level, what is happening to US and EU is well deserved after what they've inflicted on the world in the last 150 years. If the UK was to become poorer than Iraq, it's militaristic desires would be curtailed.. but i've grown soft on running water, central heating, 24 hour electricity, working sewage...

[Jon Woodgate]

No comments?

I am loving this thread akhi.
Business, finance, economics (BEF) have become complex things in modern day and hence it takes some effort to hitch hike.
Just like science. You will notice that there very minimal science discussion. Even our very serious members get alarmed at such topics because of the fear of SF turning into a worldly enterprise.

My request to you will be to focus on BEF - some one has to make that department strong here. Nothing happens without doing and some one has to do it. You, perhaps, would have to explain very basic premises again and again as people slowly catch up with the happenings in this sector of human life. This is be a botheration but it will benefit us a lot. In fact if you put up some work on it then even this sinner might get motivated to spend some serious time on science issues.

I suppose we should have a separate Business, Economics and Finance Forum as well as a Science Forum at SF.

[9enackivegliva]

My request to you will be to focus on BEF...

Hmmmmm beef......

[cepAceryTem]

Hmmmmm beef......

I know .. food should not be on my mind during Ramadan!
A Muslim man slaughtered a wild swan and tried to eat it because he was hungry during the fasting festival of Ramadan, a court heard.

Shamshu Miah stabbed the bird and bit its neck at a boating lake in a popular tourist resort.

Police found the 52-year-old with blood on his clothes and feathers in his beard when they were called to the West Shore boating pool in the seaside town of Llandudno, North Wales.

They confronted Bangladeshi-born Miah, who told the police: "I am a Muslim, I am fasting, I had to eat.

[Seisyvose]

I know .. food should not be on my mind during Ramadan!

Indeed, too much food on the mind is a dangerous thing....

A Palestinian man divorced his wife on the first day of the fasting month of Ramadan because she forgot to add carrot to his favorite peas dish.

The man in the occupied Palestinian territories has just returned home for iftar (evening meal) and went straight to the kitchen to check the cooking.

When he lifted the pan cover, he noticed there was no carrot mixed with the peas, the papers said, without mentioning where exactly he lives.

When his wife told him she forgot to add carrot, the husband went mad and divorced her just minutes before he was to have his iftar, they said