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Old 08-17-2011, 08:09 AM   #1
Slonopotam845

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Default To live in a "Palestinian" state or not?
I do not believe there are any other "settlers" (i.e. Jews living in Judea and Samaria) in this forum besides me, so the question of this poll is not actual for anyone here, but me. However, try to put yourself in my and my family's (as well as every other Jew living in Yesha) shoes. There is a possibility that where my family and I are living could become part of a future "Palestinian" state. Much as I am against the two-state solution, it seems like, like it or not, it is just bound to happen sooner or later. While, there is a VERY good chance that my community would be one of the "settlement blocs" that would remain part of Israel, I wouldn't put my faith in anything anymore. Hence, the question of this poll. If you were living in an area that today is part of Israel, but all of a sudden became part of a "Palestinian" state and Jews were allowed to stay (for now, I am forgetting about the possibility of forced evacuation for the purposes of this poll) and be citizens of that "Palestinian" state, would you remain or voluntarily leave? Personally, with a heavy heart, I would leave. Part of me would feel like a traitor for doing so (and I'm sure there are plenty who would call me a "traitor" for doing so), but my family comes first. I would NOT want to subject my children to "Palestinian" rule. So, I would move my family to somewhere within "recognized" Israel.
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Old 08-17-2011, 11:41 AM   #2
Paul Bunyan

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Moving would be the smart thing to do if you have kids. However there needs to be some who will stay to be the sacrificial lambs. Two states is NOT final status it is another strategy that both sides think that they may be able to manipulate into the final status which is "winner takes all".
Jews will be killed and Israel will eventually react. Then there is outcry, rockets and tanks and border movements and maybe even open war. Or Jews and arabs will co exist in peace. Can we poll that?
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Old 08-17-2011, 01:07 PM   #3
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I wouldn't live under Palestinian rule - as a matter of safety and as a matter of ideology. As a Jew I would refuse to place myself at the mercy of an anti-semitic Arab majority. The idea of Israel - the idea that Jews govern themselves and determine their own futures - matters more than any of its particular territorial holdings at a given time.
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Old 08-17-2011, 01:32 PM   #4
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I wouldn't live under Palestinian rule - as a matter of safety and as a matter of ideology. As a Jew I would refuse to place myself at the mercy of an anti-semitic Arab majority. The idea of Israel - the idea that Jews govern themselves and determine their own futures - matters more than any of its particular territorial holdings at a given time.
I agree with the matter of safety WHOLEHEARTEDLY and with the matter of ideology begrudgingly. I certainly wouldn't want my kids to live under "Palestinian" rule. However, that doesn't mean in my heart of hearts I don't believe Judea and Samaria is OURS. However, I would prefer to live under Jewish sovereignty over foreign sovereignty (specifically those who can't even get along amongst themselves, let alone with minorities in their midst). Otherwise I might as well live in America, which happens to have been good to me (and the Jews as a whole, for the most part), my parents, my grandparents, and great grandparents.
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Old 08-17-2011, 01:53 PM   #5
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I have lived in chaotic third world countries w.o. laws or civil order or infrastructure or a functioning economy. You do not want that. You seriously do not want that.
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Old 08-17-2011, 01:54 PM   #6
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If I was you, I'd think about my children and I would turn over the property / house to another Jewish person who is willing to take risks just for the cause about Judea and Samaria. I mean you'll do good for both your family and the cause so I voted for the second option.
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:22 PM   #7
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I have lived in chaotic third world countries w.o. laws or civil order or infrastructure or a functioning economy. You do not want that. You seriously do not want that.
Wow, Medio....What 3rd world countries have you live in? Were you a soldier in the US military?
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:23 PM   #8
LottiFurmann

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Sorry, double post [BLUSH]
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:13 PM   #9
Fegasderty

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Wow, Medio....What 3rd world countries have you live in? Were you a soldier in the US military?
I was a development economist and consultant with infrastructure programs in West Africa for a few years. I've lived in Ghana, Cote d'Ivoire, Nigeria and Liberia.
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Old 08-17-2011, 04:32 PM   #10
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I was a development economist and consultant with infrastructure programs in West Africa for a few years. I've lived in Ghana, Cote d'Ivoire, Nigeria and Liberia.
I'm sorry!!!!
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:06 PM   #11
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This is why I am absolutely intolerant of Macbook Marxists, trust fund anarchist liberals and other power to the people, people who've no earthly clue what suffering looks like. At one point I had a staff of 5 at my home who I clothed, fed, housed AND paid. And we would still leave bags of groceries and spare clothing outside for anyone to take no questions asked. People who are hungry and miserable won't kill you for what you have. But thugs who want your purse or your car or your watch to pay for ganja, whiskey, hookers, cocaine wouldn't think twice about it.
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:14 PM   #12
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So the point is, you want to live in a functioning civilized society because things work better. This Yet-Another-Arab-Experiment state will in short order turn into the kind of brutal dysfunctional crime addled poverty you see across that part of the world - whether the fascists have an iron boot on everyone's throat or not.

And trust me, statistically speaking, the Yesha Arabs are in a better position than most ordinary non-royal-family Arabs. Even so, the Arab world is economically and socially worse off than most of Africa. And that's according to their own UNDP development report series which is generated every year or two BY Arabs and in their UN Functionaries. Did you know that something like 80% of all Egyptians live on $2 a day - the UN definition of crushing abject bottom of the run poverty? Or that 90% of the entire population lives no further from the banks of the Nile than they did 5,000 years ago? Or that overall rates of literacy in the Arab world have gone DOWN in the last 40 years?
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:25 PM   #13
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So the point is, you want to live in a functioning civilized society because things work better. No need to convince me. You must have kissed the ground of the good ole' U S of A when you finally landed there after your excursion in Africa.
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:35 PM   #14
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People who are hungry and miserable won't kill you for what you have. This is the reason that aid to PA needs to stop and the arabs get a severe reality check. This false economy in Gaza gives them too much idle time on their hands to start trouble when they should be trying to work out a way to provide their families.
Don't feed the birds.
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:45 PM   #15
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No need to convince me. You must have kissed the ground of the good ole' U S of A when you finally landed there after your excursion in Africa.
Or as we were greeted in Africa "Yankee go home (and take us with you!)".
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