[HedgeYourBets]

(This is not a rebuttal).

Sharonbn,


"Perhaps it is appropriate to establish common grounds on morality (more on that later "

This is true. However, I must mention one thing: If we delve into what is moral and what it not, that is going to take up alot of time, posts. My point is this: I will do it, if I need to. But I have a another idea - the whole reason why any discussion on morality is necessary, is because you are requesting real-life ideologies, (which have no bearing on the argument as you have stated). If I was to give real-life examples, then I would have to go into morality, which I would rather not. (For reason of it taking up too much time).

So, if you really do want the irrelevant real life examples, I will provide them. But I would rather not, and continue from where we left off from Post#81. Dont get me wrong - I will provide them - I am simply inviting you to re-think your request, for the sake of time, (and because real life examples are irrelevant).

One last thing: As long as you can imagine that such ideologies can Be, then that is all that is really required.

Thnx.

[radikal]

Rehavaam Zeevi and liberman did not offer transfer as a mean to acheive the goals of Zionism. The support of transfer came because they believed its the only way for the jewish people to stay in israel (after the zionism cause acheived), it is not offered as a way to get more lands for the zionism cause. Gev,

This is correct.

Also, the transfer of Arabs to their own lands is a means to bring freedom and security to the Arabs, and create a situation where they can live exactly as they please without any Israeli influence. This would serve to reduce tensions in the entire Middle East and further the interests of the whole world.

[Ifroham4]

If one wants to examine Zionism, 1948 is a perfect example. In this year, Jewish gangs unleashed their fury upon the inhabitants. It was also the year the Israeli army embarassed an ill-equipped Arab army, but more on that later. Nevertheless, the Zionist slogan "a people without a land for a land without people" - something of that nature. Hello, wake up people. One of the reasons PLO and Barak couldn't agree was the right to return. This right would have allowed Arabs driven from their homes to return to Israel. From which war? There were many wars in which the Israeli army forced people to flee their homes. 1948, 1967, and many others are just a few. Also, why don't you just ask the British if that land was empty and ripe for claim. This isn't the South Pole! What is the purpose of all of this, one may ask. Quite simple, Zionism may have been founded on noble causes, but in practice, it was just as bad as communism.

[9mm_fan]

"It just seems strange to me that you have no reservations about using hypothetical ideologies in abundance in your posts and even judge the example ideologies that were given as immoral (Nazim, Communism), but shy away from giving a real life example of a moral political ideology. "

The only reason I hesitate, is because once I do state moral/immoral ideologies, the debate will shift into the "but why is this moral", which is totally irrelevant.

Anyway, I have decided to povide you with real life ideologies, and I will divide up the posts into two parts, in case a debate on "what is moral" ensues.

I will post shortly.

---------------------------

Flame, nice rant. Try elsewhere.

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

gev,

Every once-and-a-while, some hot-blooded light-headed yahoo enters the thread and "contributes" useless flamatory posts. A-Palestinian and I (both Houyhnhnms) have learned its best to ignore them.

[TorryJens]

Continued from Part 1.

The last post in Part 1 is Here.