[NvrNoNowX]

Pam Reynolds was rendered technically dead on an operating table so that an aneurysm could be removed. However, she was far from dead, according to Dr. Michael Sabom, a cardiologist, who includes a detailed medical and scientific analysis of the event in his his latest book, Light and Death.

Although all Pam's vital signs were flat lining, her experience of 'death' was anything but ...



Here's she tells her side of the story:

The next thing I recall was the sound: It was a Natural "D." As I listened to the sound, I felt it was pulling me out of the top of my head. The further out of my body I got, the more clear the tone became. I had the impression it was like a road, a frequency that you go on ... I remember seeing several things in the operating room when I was looking down. It was the most aware that I think that I have ever been in my entire life ...I was metaphorically sitting on [the doctor's] shoulder. It was not like normal vision. It was brighter and more focused and clearer than normal vision ... There was so much in the operating room that I didn't recognize, and so many people.

I thought the way they had my head shaved was very peculiar. I expected them to take all of the hair, but they did not ...

The saw-thing that I hated the sound of looked like an electric toothbrush and it had a dent in it, a groove at the top where the saw appeared to go into the handle, but it didn't ... And the saw had interchangeable blades, too, but these blades were in what looked like a socket wrench case ... I heard the saw crank up. I didn't see them use it on my head, but I think I heard it being used on something. It was humming at a relatively high pitch and then all of a sudden it went Brrrrrrrrr! like that.

Someone said something about my veins and arteries being very small. I believe it was a female voice and that it was Dr. Murray, but I'm not sure. She was the cardiologist. I remember thinking that I should have told her about that ... I remember the heart-lung machine. I didn't like the respirator ... I remember a lot of tools and instruments that I did not readily recognize.

There was a sensation like being pulled, but not against your will. I was going on my own accord because I wanted to go. I have different metaphors to try to explain this. It was like the Wizard of Oz - being taken up in a tornado vortex, only you're not spinning around like you've got vertigo. You're very focused and you have a place to go. The feeling was like going up in an elevator real fast. And there was a sensation, but it wasn't a bodily, physical sensation. It was like a tunnel but it wasn't a tunnel.

At some point very early in the tunnel vortex I became aware of my grandmother calling me. But I didn't hear her call me with my ears ... It was a clearer hearing than with my ears. I trust that sense more than I trust my own ears.

The feeling was that she wanted me to come to her, so I continued with no fear down the shaft. It's a dark shaft that I went through, and at the very end there was this very little tiny pinpoint of light that kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

The light was incredibly bright, like sitting in the middle of a light bulb. It was so bright that I put my hands in front of my face fully expecting to see them and I could not. But I knew they were there. Not from a sense of touch. Again, it's terribly hard to explain, but I knew they were there ...

I noticed that as I began to discern different figures in the light - and they were all covered with light, they were light, and had light permeating all around them - they began to form shapes I could recognize and understand. I could see that one of them was my grandmother. I don't know if it was reality or a projection, but I would know my grandmother, the sound of her, anytime, anywhere.

Everyone I saw, looking back on it, fit perfectly into my understanding of what that person looked like at their best during their lives.

I recognized a lot of people. My uncle Gene was there. So was my great-great-Aunt Maggie, who was really a cousin. On Papa's side of the family, my grandfather was there ... They were specifically taking care of me, looking after me.

They would not permit me to go further ... It was communicated to me - that's the best way I know how to say it, because they didn't speak like I'm speaking - that if I went all the way into the light something would happen to me physically. They would be unable to put this me back into the body me, like I had gone too far and they couldn't reconnect. So they wouldn't let me go anywhere or do anything.

I wanted to go into the light, but I also wanted to come back. I had children to be reared. It was like watching a movie on fast-forward on your VCR: You get the general idea, but the individual freeze-frames are not slow enough to get detail.

Then they [deceased relatives] were feeding me. They were not doing this through my mouth, like with food, but they were nourishing me with something. The only way I know how to put it is something sparkly. Sparkles is the image that I get. I definitely recall the sensation of being nurtured and being fed and being made strong. I know it sounds funny, because obviously it wasn't a physical thing, but inside the experience I felt physically strong, ready for whatever.

My grandmother didn't take me back through the tunnel, or even send me back or ask me to go. She just looked up at me. I expected to go with her, but it was communicated to me that she just didn't think she would do that. My uncle said he would do it. He's the one who took me back through the end of the tunnel. Everything was fine. I did want to go.

But then I got to the end of it and saw the thing, my body. I didn't want to get into it ... It looked terrible, like a train wreck. It looked like what it was: dead. I believe it was covered. It scared me and I didn't want to look at it.

It was communicated to me that it was like jumping into a swimming pool. No problem, just jump right into the swimming pool. I didn't want to, but I guess I was late or something because he [the uncle] pushed me. I felt a definite repelling and at the same time a pulling from the body. The body was pulling and the tunnel was pushing ... It was like diving into a pool of ice water ... It hurt!

When I came back, they were playing Hotel California and the line was "You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave." I mentioned [later] to Dr. Brown that that was incredibly insensitive and he told me that I needed to sleep more. [laughter] When I regained consciousness, I was still on the respirator. Dr Saborn adds this:

For practical purposes outside the world of academic debate, three clinical tests commonly determine brain death. First, a standard electroencephalogram, or EEG, measures brain-wave activity. A "flat" EEG denotes non-function of the cerebral cortex - the outer shell of the cerebrum. Second, auditory evoked potentials, similar to those [clicks] elicited by the ear speakers in Pam's surgery, measure brain-stem viability. Absence of these potentials indicates non-function of the brain stem. And third, documentation of no blood flow to the brain is a marker for a generalized absence of brain function.

But during "standstill", Pam's brain was found "dead" by all three clinical tests - her electroencephalogram was silent, her brain-stem response was absent, and no blood flowed through her brain. Interestingly, while in this state, she encountered the "deepest" NDE of all Atlanta Study participants.

Some scientists theorize that NDEs are produced by brain chemistry. But, Dr. Peter Fenwick, a neuropsychiatrist and the leading authority in Britain concerning NDEs, believes that these theories fall far short of the facts. In the documentary, "Into the Unknown: Strange But True," Dr. Fenwick describes the state of the brain during a NDE:

"The brain isn't functioning. It's not there. It's destroyed. It's abnormal. But, yet, it can produce these very clear experiences ... an unconscious state is when the brain ceases to function. For example, if you faint, you fall to the floor, you don't know what's happening and the brain isn't working. The memory systems are particularly sensitive to unconsciousness. So, you won't remember anything. But, yet, after one of these experiences [a NDE], you come out with clear, lucid memories ... This is a real puzzle for science. I have not yet seen any good scientific explanation which can explain that fact."

"The modern tradition of equating death with an ensuing nothingness can be abandoned. For there is no reason to believe that human death severs the quality of the oneness in the universe." - Larry Dossey, MD From here

[lrtoinbert]

I believe accounts like this partly because of my own experiences. For example, an out-of-body experience that occurred spontaneously a short time after I had given birth to my daughter. I don't think I even knew what an OOBE was at that time. The nurse insisted that I walk to the bathroom, though I was feeling weak. I had had only a small amount of pain med before the birth. I passed out while standing up and the nurse caught me. But during that time of unconsciousness, I felt myself journeying through black outer space that was filled with stars. I experienced infinity and wasn't aware of myself as an entity. When I returned to ordinary reality, I was still standing up and realized I had lost consciousness for only a few seconds. However, in those seconds of ordinary time, I did travel in an infinite realm that was beautiful and sacred.

[ashleyjoseph]

Thanks for sharing your story, Sheepy.

I wonder if anyone else has a similar story to share?

[Diandaplaipsy]

Thanks for posting this Ishtar. It came at an opportune time for me, just 4 days after my Dad died.

[vulikox]

Stephen, I was only thinking about your father and you the other day, and wondering how he was... I guess I must have picked up his passing on the ether.

By publishing the article in the opening post to this thread, I'm not just airing a theory. One of the roles of the shaman is to be a psychopomp. We help to carry those souls through to their next destination who have got stuck in this one, for various reasons, but usually due to sudden, unexpected and traumatic death. In other words, unlike someone who dies after a long illness, they weren't prepared for it and were unable to naturally make the transition.

So from being a psychopomp that has visited the "Realms of the Dead", please know, if you didn't already, that your father is in a wonderful, loving and nuturing place, where he is being prepared for his next incarnation.

It is only the living that mourn the dead ... it is probably the hardest thing that the human being ever has to bear, the death of someone close to them. It is so final. This creation is so wondrous that every being it produces is totally unique and once they pass, they will never come this way again. The loss of them is very hard for those of us left behind ... but giving heartfelt thanks for the gift of their life, and the gift of knowing them, can really help.

I'm very happy that you've gained some comfort from the words written in this thread, and to add to them, I'm sending a huge cyber hug and a jar of honeybee Love and Blessings to you and yours.

[CHyLmxDr]

Thanks so much Ishtar. Your experience is a great comfort. I love you for sharing that. But I'm sure it's also a great comfort to others since everyone reading this thread has probably also lost a loved one.

Some people in my family get a lot of comfort from their religious faith. I respect their faith, though I don't share it, because I've seen how it's helped them cope with incredible suffering. I have a cousin, for example, a convert to Catholicism, who lost both of her only children, two sons who died in their teens. The Anglican priest who officiated at my father's funeral was married to another cousin of mine who died just a few weeks ago after a two year long struggle with ovarian cancer. Because he was family and had been so loving and supportive when my mother died in 2004, we wanted him to conduct the service but we hesitated to ask knowing that he was dealing with his own grieving still. But his faith gave him the strength and the desire to help us.

Most people I know though have lost their faith in traditional religion, if they ever had any so there is no real comfort for them there. However, they've all experienced death close to home so they've had to try and come to terms with it somehow. They've all at least thought about whether or not there is an after life.

Like most of the people I know, I've never had a near death experience or journeyed to other worlds in shamanic trance. I'm a pretty ordinary guy as far as that goes. i can't rely on such experiences to form my own opinions about life after death. However, when I examine my own past and when I've probed a little bit in conversation with friends and family, I've usually found that most of us have had at least one experience that can be interpreted as suggesting that consciousness survives the death of the body.

My mother died as a result of injuries she suffered in a car accident. A truck driver forced my parent's car off the road when he made an unsafe lane change. My father was not badly hurt but my mother had severe internal injuries. She was flown by air ambulance to a trauma unit in a major hospital where she underwent surgery for a ruptured bowel. After the operation, one of the surgeons spoke to us about her chances of recovery. I remember he said that he had seen many cases where the doctors had done everything they could with the expectation that the patient would not make it only to be surprised by their eventual recovery. On the other hand, he also told us that he had seen just as many cases where they expected the patient to do well only to see them succumb to their injuries or disease. His conclusion, which shocked me at the time coming from a man of science, was that a higher power determined whether or not any given individual would survive, in spite of everything the doctors could do for them.

My mother suffered terribly for two weeks in hospital. At first she rallied and we began to hope she would recover. But then a septic infection took hold and she gradually declined. The doctors couldn't find the source of the infection and the antibiotics they were giving her couldn't stop it's spread. She was conscious most of the time but on a respirator and unable to speak to us. All she could do was squeeze our hands and look into our eyes to show her fear and her love. It was agonizing for us; I can't imagine what it was like for her.

In the end, when the infection had spread to the point that the nurses had to bring in perfume to cover up the smell and their was no longer even a faint hope of recovery, we had her life support systems disconnected. We all stood around her bed led in prayer by my cousin's husband while we waited for her heart to stop beating. The nurses told us it could take some time. They said that they had found that people who had been through the depression and the war held on to life more tenaciously than younger folks. So we waited and eventually her heart stopped.

When we went home from the hospital, I feared for my father. They had been married for over 60 years. He was devastated by her death but like most men of his generation he had trouble expressing his emotions. I decided that for the first few nights that he would have been alone in his house I would stay with him. I slept in the same bedroom that I had as a child. In the middle of the second or third night, I remember waking up feeling disoriented, neither fully awake nor asleep. Suddenly I had the distinct impression that someone had sat down on the bed next to me because I felt a weight depress the mattress. Something made me think of my mother, I don't know why, and I asked if she was all right. In response I heard a whispered, "yes".

It would be easy to explain away that experience as a dream or as a hallucination, a manifestation of my own unconscious need to be comforted. Most people seem to have had similar experiences at one time or another and they usually deal with them by explaining them away or ignoring them. I can't say I "know" what my experience was. I can say that I know it made me feel better.

On another occasion, I had an experience that was even harder to explain in any way except as an indication that there is consciousness beyond death. At the invitation of a friend, and out of curiosity more than anything else, I went to a psychic a few years after my mother had died. This woman told me during the course of our session that my mother's spirit was there. She also said there was a spirit of a large brindle coloured dog, which matched the description of a dog that I had owned.

I had been single for many years at this time but she told me that my mother's spirit was trying to arrange for me to meet someone. The psychic went into great detail describing this person. She said the woman I would meet was a widow who lived in a house in Edinburgh. She had a job as a court stenographer. The foyer in her home had black and white tile and a working antique light fixture extending from the newel post on the stair case. She had a house in Spain and many friends that she visited throughout Europe.

She went on to say that this woman had a room in her house which was dedicated to the storage of her extensive collection of hats! The psychic told me that I would meet this woman while she was on a holiday visiting the town where I lived. It was all quite unbelievable.

That evening I met a friend to go to a movie. On the way, we stopped for a beer at a local pub. I told him the story about my visit to the psychic that had occurred that very afternoon and related her prediction that I would soon meet a widow from Edinburgh with a collection of hats. We were both quite amused.

As we got up to leave for the film, a group of about 7 or 8 woman walked into the pub. Each one of them was wearing a different style of hat. Woman don't normally wear hats much anymore and it wasn't a cold day so we were both a bit surprised. Just for a lark, my friend shouted out to them asking if anyone in the group was from Edinburgh. We were both flabbergasted when one of them said yes.

They sat down and we went over to their table to introduce ourselves and tell the story. They said that they were there to celebrate the birthday of one of the women in the group, the one from Edinburgh as I recall. She said she was now living in Canada and she was too young to be a widow but the coincidence was striking nonetheless. After exchanging a few pleasantries, we left. A few days later, I thought I should try to find out who they were but the staff at the pub told me they had never seen that group before nor have they since. So if you know a widow from Edinburgh with a hat collection, do tell.

But the most surprising thing the psychic told me came as the session was ending. She stopped me as I was getting up to leave and told me another spirit had arrived with a message. She said it was the spirit of a young man who had died in a single car accident. He had been thrown through the windshield. She said his name was Brian and that he wanted me to tell his sister that he loved her. Almost as an afterthought she said there was also something about "pink peonies".

The psychic asked me if I knew a woman who might be the sister in this case but no one came to mind and I left feeling a bit perplexed. Eventually I recalled that one of the women that I worked with had told me years ago that she had in fact lost her brother in a single car accident. Given the sensitivity of the subject, I didn't want to come right out and say to her that I had a message from her dead brother that he had communicated to me through a psychic. So one day when we ran into each other leaving work I just asked her if "pink peonies" meant anything to her. She was noncommittal at the time but a few days later asked me if we were going to finish the conversation I had started about the peonies. I told her the whole story at which point she gave me the following information. She said that her brother had in fact died in an accident under the circumstances that the psychic had described. But she said that her brother's name was Barrie not Brian, although he had a best friend with that name. She went on to say that on a road near their home in the country was a farm with a long lane way that they used to drive by together. She said that she and her brother would often remark on how striking the lane way was because it was lined with "red peonies"!

Red peonies, pink peonies, who cares. That detail was too hard to ignore so I delivered the message from her brother. She told me that she had just recently felt his presence while sitting in her parents' house. I could explain away the whole thing but I just don't know how to account for the peonies except to believe that the psychic really did get a message from this woman's deceased brother.

When confronted by my own skepticism I feel that I can't really know the truth about these things with certainty. My final resort in resolving this difficulty is to consider which choice, either of believing or not believing, will make my life better. I choose to believe.

These kinds of common experiences don't fit well within the context of the mainstream scientific world view that is dominant today. But in spite of that fact, they won't go away. My own feeling is that they should be studied with an open mind in an effort to understand them rather than be ignored or explained away.

I'm reminded in this of Thomas Kuhn's book The Structure of Scientific Revolutions in which he describes the process of how a once dominant scientific theory is overthrown. It begins with the accumulation of anomalies that can't be explained by that theory. The anomalies are at first ignored or explained away. The people who want to investigate them are ridiculed. But the weight of the evidence eventually becomes impossible to ignore and science reaches a tipping point. At that point, the people with the least invested in maintaining the status quo begin to cast about for alternative theories that can account both for the evidence that supported the old theory and also for the multitude of anomalies. Eventually a new theory emerges that is so persuasive and effective at explaining all the evidence that it is adopted by all but the most recalcitrant.

With respect to the question of life after death, perhaps we're approaching the tipping point.

[Angry White American]

Yes, I think we're reaching all sorts of tipping points at once, Stephen!

The tipping is happening because more and more people are starting to think for themselves, and to listen to their own intuition. The dead hand of religion and science on our necks is losing its white-knuckled grip.

Many thanks for sharing that with us. It was very interesting!

[husartrof]

Thank you for sharing that Stephjn,
I could relate to a couple of statements you made:
"Like most of the people I know, I've never had a near death experience or journeyed to other worlds in shamanic trance."
" I've usually found that most of us have had at least one experience that can be interpreted as suggesting that consciousness survives the death of the body."

I really liked your psychic reading (wish it was your lady from Edinburgh). I wouldn't want to know so I don't think I will get a Psychic reading. Although oddly enough I saw an advertisment for a psychic fair this weekend, I say oddly cause I never ever saw an ad for one before and after reading this I thought whoa that is weird I see this in some flyer today. I know stranger things happen but hey I just had to tell. Thanks annieo11

[mr.supervideogoodfd]

Both my wife and daughter have been through the same experience. My daughter was terrified and my wife completely the opposite.

Roy.

[w3QHxwNb]

There are many moving accounts, and many folk have experiences. Indeed experiences are so frequent that there are either a lot of very deranged people walking around, or there is more than our present understanding, perception or paradigms can account for.

Some people in our western materialist culture seem to bump into 'weird' stuff all the time, others have one, often lifechanging experence. Though a 'skeptic' in the positive sense, I (and my wife & three children) fall into the former category.

For the purpose of this thread I shall relate events that occured over a couple of weeks in the Autumn of 2004.
I was rushed into hospital as a result of colapse due to complications arising from treatment for advanced bowel cancer. I recall the first hour after admittance having been given morphine which mitigated the intense pain, but the world faded, glimpses of my wife beside the bed, recollections of crises due to organ failure, then drifting, peaceful and a conversation between the consultant onctologist & medical admissions consultant in whose isolation room I was located. "blood test results show him to be neutropenic, not responded, blood transfusion option?""I do not think we will get to that, Suggested his wife stays with her sister nearby in case we need to call her in" A Douglas Bader moment. In the morning blood test had first stirrings of white blood cells & woke up fully for first time in over a week. It is from here the experience begins, after three more days, although with a still low white blood count, the Medical Consultant thought I would be safer at home with antibiotics than in hospital. So there I am, clothed, sat on the bed waiting for my wife to arrive to take me home, afternoon sun shaded by half closed blinds, and the side room out of the hubub from the main ward. I had my eyes closed & became aware of three white figures one distinct two behind on either side indistinct. The front figure had an andrgymnous beauty. I opened my eyes, empty room, closed them & there they were, as a thought "are you my guardian angels" as a thougt "that is a way of understanding" "so where is the light""it is not yet your time" & I knew that that was all on that subject," so is there a hell?" I am floting in front of a rusty container on jacks in a back parking lot in Brentford (round corner from where son worked at time) the doors creaked open, I floated in & they closed behind, empty blackness. And there were my three 'angels' and a feeling all was well, I opened my eyes, but shut, they were gone. Overwhelmed with emotion I cried. Now this may well be explained by having been on large doses of morphine, however strangeness continued. That night, at home in bed I thought I was hallucinating, for sat on the bottom of the bed was a red 2' high manakin complete with horns (archtype!). My wife whispered "am I imagining..." I swore at the apparition to #### off and kicked up, toppling the figure backwards with a plop sound (rotten pumpkin/marrow dropped onto floor sound). Both my wife & I then experienced a rush of people across our bed as though cimbing an invisible staircase an disappearing through the ceiling.

These were clearly not NDE, as for me they could well have been drug induced, but my wife experienced the night 'visitation' as well. The 'visitations' are consistent with other apparitions we have both experienced jointly. I do not fear death as an end, but would hope to avoid a repeat of the physical pain along the journey.

[9enackivegliva]

Kevin, thanks for sharing this and being so open about your experiences.

Two things jumped out at me.

1. The first is regarding your experience in the realm of imagi-nation whilst under the influence of drugs. I use the term imagi-nation deliberately. The nation or country or realm of images is a real place, and no fantasy. Everything we see around us, just looking around the room we're in right now, started off, at one time, as a seed in the realm of images, or the Imagi Nation. That psychotropic substances like herbs and flowers can grant us access to the realm of the images has been well known for thousands of years by some shamans who use them to gain insight and guidance from the spirits. The shamans of Amazon, in taking datura and ayuhuasca, say that it puts them in touch with the spirit of the plant ~ herb or flower ~ and that the spirit advises them.

Additionally, you may be interested to know about Colin Kingshott (known on here as plant shaman) who became involved with plants through suffering from syneasthesia, which meant that he could hear plant sounds and see musical notes as different colours. Over time, he put this gift to good use and has now developed a machine which reads the electrical signals of plants and converts them into audible notes on the musical scale. He says that when we walk through a field of flowers, we're actually walking through and taking part in a musical compositon as co creators. He says that each and every type of landscape has its own unique signature sounds which he has been been mapping with a view to using them in therapy. The sounds of specific flowers heal specific health conditions.

I only mention all this because of your comment: "Now this may well be explained by having been on large doses of morphine...." It may have been what triggered it off, because in taking morphine you are also getting in touch with the spirit of the poppy, and this is something that scientists in the pharmaceutical industry don't understand. So what you experienced, even if it was drug induced, was not just meaningless fantasy but real and with meaning ... you were viewing it, however, in another dimension or realm, the realm of images or the Imagi Nation.

2. Your description of a sense of people rushing across your bed as though climbing an invisible staircase through your ceiling after you toppled the figure backwards sounds familiar to me with my psychopomp hat on. It sounds as though you removed a blockage which had been holding entities in this dimension, when they needed to move on to the next. You removed energy that was in the wrong place, I reckon! So well done!

[rNr5Di3S]

Kevin, this is interesting to me, your experience with the morphine.

I had been in hospital after an operation for gall bladder removal. I had experienced much pain because of the amount of gall stones that had been stuck in my bile duct and after the op was put on a self medicating machine that you press when the pain gets worse and it gives you a measured dose of morphine. After a few hours I became more comfortable and very 'out of it'. That night I awoke to a feeling of someone on my chest and I saw what can only be described as a devilish spiky looking creature with a jagged looking knife or short sword in his hand. He proceeded to shove this down my throat and I had to summon all my strength to throw him off me. I was terrified! I lay back exhausted and looked at the ceiling and I could see it moving and strange shapes, small shapes, appearing there. I have no idea what they were but I thought they were insects of some kind...I sat up in bed and the night nurse came into the ward on her rounds. She asked me if I was okay and I said no and told her what I had experienced, she got me a cup of tea and I said i wanted to see someone about the effects of the medication. The next day the pharmacist came and I told her about my experience but she said that the doses I had been on were not enough to give me any such hallucinatory effect and said I just must have had a bad dream!

The experience was so real that it sends shivers down my spine while typing this!

Perhaps it was just a bad dream, but your experiences with the morphine have made me wonder if there was some other explanation for it!!

Cass

[T5qYkHWQ]

Cass, I hate hospitals. I hate going in them and once in, I can't wait to get out again. Even as a visitor, I'm watching the clock.

When you think about how many people have died in those places, and many in agony, and all without a psychopomp to guide them through, is it any wonder that there are all these entities hanging around who haven't made it through the veil, not to mention the energy spirits of the sicknesses themselves. I sometimes feel them like a heavy, cloying thickness in the air and there are far too many for me to deal with.

Doctors are nothing more than car mechanics these days, taking out and replacing parts. They think we are just the physical vehicle. In ignoring the spiritual, however, doesn't make it go away!!

[rockboyzaza]

Cass, I hate hospitals. I hate going in them and once in, I can't wait to get out again. Even as a visitor, I'm watching the clock.

Doctors are nothing more than car mechanics these days, taking out and replacing parts. They think we are just the physical vehicle. In ignoring the spiritual, however, doesn't make it go away!!

Couldn't agree more with you! Luckily the 'mechanics' have done a good job lol, they took out the right parts.... I'm still here!

Always get very annoyed to see how patients are treated, especially the old. Maybe one day a holistic approach
to healing will be combined with the 'mechanics', mind, body & spirit in harmony as it should be, for all!

Cass

[arrismVam]

Hi Cass,

Sorry to hear your experience was so unpleasant. I find it interesting the apparent similarity of the malevolence, mine upon returning home, yours whilst still in hospital. Leaving aside the fact both of us were on or had recently been on morphine, it seems to be not that rare an occurence. I have discussed my experiences with a friend who is a staff nurse working with folk suffering neurological decline - later stage MS & Motor Neurone. Though not experienced herself, she told me of colleagues who had seen such 'entities' in the vicinity of some seriously ill patients and if you google "demonic attacks"......... The significant thing is that we were both able to fight off the experience, others, unfortunately appear to not be so mentally 'robust'.

As an explanation.... I am inclined to Ishtar's interpretation.

[infinkPoode]

A book I read last year that may be of interest to anyone exploring "Is Death Really the End" is "The other side: an account of my experiences with Psychic Phenomena" by Bishop James Pike . I thought the book was excellent in describing contact with 'the departed', but having looked up Bishop Pike on Wiki I reckon this has to be one of the most reliable and objective explorations of the subject that I have come across. Bishop Pike took on the likes of McCarthy, JFK, and the Catholic Church, supported civil rights, gays and the ordination of women in 1950's and 1960's America. A Treasury Department lawyer before ww2 and a naval intelligence officer,he was not your gullible type, a self professed rationalist he made detailed transcripts/tapes with independent witness' of all his experiments or planned experiences in the paranormal. Largely dealing with clairvoyance you are left to draw your own conclusions, but he is not a fake or fantasist and definately not a Harry Price. Book seems to be out of print but 2nd hand copies may be available http://www.amazon.co.uk/Account-Experie ... B001UP6GRU