[Arkadiyas]

Does anyone frequent the lower planes? Anyone??

[kKFB1BxX]

I enjoy my visits most of the time. I don't know what Robert Bruce is talking about when he says it's annoying to be down there, but my experience shows to me the opposite. It's awesome, the quasi-futuristic, distorted industrial landscapes and grotesque creatures that inhabit the sites there. Pollution, deviations of all sorts, miscreants of every kind, all the pathologies of a disease encyclopedia, condemned buildings, slums, urban sprawl, overcomplicated and choking transportation networks, ruins of symbolically important places, hordes of projectors, negs, and astral illusions/traps, wars, violence, conspiracy, greed, etc. It's all there! Labyrinths, oh yeah, those are my favorite! I love the mazes and labyrinths that exist there! So messed up and twisting in impossible ways and directions, and just knowing that I understand the ins and outs of them is awesome! I'm a glitch in everything that's not supposed to happen down there! I'm not supposed to exist! It's awesome! No fear of anything down there. Just complete chaos!

I'm just wondering what everyone does with the darker side of projecting. I focus on outwitting and taking control over negs/projectors; use their own astral bodies/materials against them. Oh, they hate it when they lose at their own games! It's fun to see how they see and beyond, and then exploit that to bring them to their knees! Way better than video games, anyday! That's actually my expertise down there right now, is the fluctuation of things that aren't supposed to fluctuate. In other words, creating trouble and chaos for those that get in my way there! Good times...

The reality, though, is that there's something important that exists in the lower planes as does the higher planes. So, if you only see the higher planes as meaningful, then you're not going to understand what it is that brings them all together as you would colors with a color wheel, or different wavelengths of electromagnetism in the EM spectrum. This thread is about thoughts on your lower astral plane experiences.

[KlaraNovikoffaZ]

I'm reminded of my favorite Nietzsche quote:

"When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks into you."

While I think there could be some worthwhile information gained from exploration of the lower astral, it's a project that is certainly not to be taken lightly.

Spending a significant amount of time around such negative energy is most likely to lead to that energy rubbing off on you. Indeed, your description of what you like to do to negs and projectors there sounds quite similar to the kind of fun negs like to have with unsuspecting humans.

[Tic Tac Took]

hey CEP, im with you on this one, ive always had a strange fascination with big, desolate industrial estates, abandoned buildings and general urban decay. I love those big futuristic cityscapes

I think an astrally generated reflection of quintessential chaos sounds like heaven for me ?!

once out, whats the best way to get the lower planes? (asking this made me chuckle)
also, is it likely be directly attacked in the lower astral?

It sounds like you have a reliable projection method too, care to share?

[TheReallyBest]

The best way to get to the Lower Planes?! Hmmm... Not sure, boris. You can get there anyway you want, basically. All you have to do is, before you go projecting, create a link for it with something somewhere nearby, so you can easily get to it. When you get there, you'll love the scenery! But, there's more there than scenery!!! Just keep in mind you'll be coming across negs and other projectors (like me ) that only have your detriment in mind. Don't trust anyone there, and be prepared to get crap dished out to you (be ready to defend yourself). If you have a strong will and firm constitution, you will be OK. If you don't, don't bother with the Lower Planes. I don't want to see you down there slaving for some neg, so project responsibly.

[krasniyluch]

Interesting approach! I've only been down once that I recall, leading my family on a little tour, & telling them that the most important thing was not to feel fear, no matter what happened. I took the whole "plane" as a form of entertainment, not to be taken too seriously.

[Konservir]

I remember taking a stroll there, it was like frequenting a somewhat bad neighbourhood during bright day. I could see something resembling a strip club with a big muscular bouncer eyeballing me off to the left side. The whole area seemed very industrial, but everything was so brightly lit that it reminded me of Southern California for some reason.

I met some skaters there, they were harmless. I think they were stoned, one of them had dreadlocks. All I did was walk past as my real goal for that night lay on the other side of the river, which I could see in the distance. It all depends on the circumstances of the visit, I guess. Fear didn't even come to my mind at all.

[tousuarshatly]

I've never felt fear, but annoyance at being at a place I didn't want to be. If I wanted to be in a place full of warehouses, concrete and pollution, I'd move back to the city. Yuck.

[Theateetetuig]

Remember, like attracts like. One innocent slip up could affect you. Its not only realms that you are visiting, its also states of consciousness. Hitch-hikers lurk there; also.
I believe that at one time each of us was conscious in the "lower" realms. However, as we become more aware, our consciousness is "raised"; lofting us towards the higher realms.
These worlds are not make believe, the beings are not make believe, that is where their consciousness is. BTW-these places are not toys

[boxcigsnick]

Point taken! It's not somewhere I would ever go to normally, but my daughter pointed towards a dark swirl & asked what was down there, so we went. There was a market, selling all sorts of junk, too, & strange beings & animals clowning around. My favourite was a flying, talking head - had 2 little wings for ears, & was very amusing & witty.. . . I kept pulsing energy through "myself" to ward off any unpleasant attachments. But the Park is more my sort of place, as I'm sure it is everyone's!

[anaisdannyxys]

I remember taking a stroll there, it was like frequenting a somewhat bad neighbourhood during bright day. I could see something resembling a strip club with a big muscular bouncer eyeballing me off to the left side. The whole area seemed very industrial, but everything was so brightly lit that it reminded me of Southern California for some reason.

I met some skaters there, they were harmless. I think they were stoned, one of them had dreadlocks. All I did was walk past as my real goal for that night lay on the other side of the river, which I could see in the distance. It all depends on the circumstances of the visit, I guess. Fear didn't even come to my mind at all.

What was on the other side of the river you were looking for?

Anyway to my knowledge I have never been to the lower planes. I am kind of curious to go there sometime to see what their like though. All the astral places I have been to seem relitively nice even though I run into a neg now and then they are almost always easily dealt with.

[oxinsnepe]

I have also bean down there, horrible. It was like a training beat in keeping the mind steady and not give in to anything what tried to catch my attention....I was send there to get my son back.....All this happened during the "psyhopath" time, I did not understand when all this happened, it has taken me 30 year´s of digesting what I went through and why I was send there, but I was guided by a voice....to keep me on track....and what I remember of this is.....The voice said...do not listen to anyone...keep going...( noices/voices was helvetic and hand´s touching me it was like very near for me to loose my mind, going crazy)...the voice said all the time to remind me to keep my mind pure and not give in to anything...but keep going to get what I was there to bring back....I know today it was my son´s soul.....I did understand also when my son become satan vorchipper not to leave him and not to give in but to keep going on reminding my son who he is....he did change during this time from loving to hating...but he did come back to normal....Through my son I have dared to face the darkest of dark, I am ever greatful to my son, without him I wouldn´t dared to do this.....and I have to thank the psychopath for giving me this opportunity, I know where my heart belong´s and why, and I have got the experience of infinity so I have both pole experiences. It is compleat.

Love

[HedoShoodovex]

Depending on which lower plane you are in, it gets progressively lower and lower in consciousness, even to a point where there is no awareness of GOD at all, murder and revenge is there. Wonder why children are afraid of clowns and bums? In my opinion, its maybe where their last state of consciousnes was and they remember it; and are totally afraid out of their wits. Of course, as they get older, we tell them its only make believe; so some forget and some don't.

The beings in those realms are trying to get into our physical realm, so they try to attach themselves to us. Don't anyone think they are "smarter" than they are, and can outwit them. There, just as here, there is always someone who can outwit us.

Grant

[Moupponge]

Greeting all
I too have been to astral locales that fit the description of the 'lower planes. Though some of those OBEs were memorable those are places that I would Not necessarily want to revisit.
My take is that the 'lower planes' are truly VAST in extant And scope. Meaning that those locations range widely in difference from as 'familiar' as a rundown inner city ghetto to as 'religious' as the familiar Christian conception of hell with fire and devils, etc, etc. Some locations are relatively unstable and temporary in nature while others are pretty much permanent. Some are populated mostly by human beings while others are inhabited solely by nonhuman discarnates.

Regards
Grey

[Axxflcaj]

Hey, defectron.

What was on the other side of the river you were looking for?

That was not recalled, but there was a green meadow ahead and maybe a city or something beyond the river. Quite literally greener pastures.

[iqxdvjgmat]

I believe perhaps I may of been there once hard to say though, all I remember was when I flu though my house walls to the street outside I saw a few red beams of light piecing the night sky so when I went to explore these lights I got attacked by weird looking rat sized things and then a larger type size of a medium/large dog with bull horns/face.

I just stood there to see what would happen if I ignored them and they keept latching onto my body which did'nt feel painful but not quite right somehow..so I visualized a force shield around my body and then the shield materialized around me which they seemed not to be able to penertrate.

I then came accross a group of 3-4 ppl hiding form those type of creatures who said they were also doing OBE's but did'nt seem
able to over come them..odd


Zethor

[Preorbtat]

They could be dwellers trying to scare you or actual entities trying to get into our physical realm. (latching--hitchhikers)
Grant

[IamRobot]

Late to this thread...I have toured the SubEtheric, the Totemic, the Lower Planes and the Hels. I go with angels and shield to learn and to soul rescue.

Negs are constrained to the realms of their own vibration. They can lift their game and raise their vibration to leave. Some prefer to stay, most can't figure out how to leave.

Some negs piggy back out of there to wreck havoc on the living. Negs rise up out of the Hels to come to the homes of their progeny and group soul and then try to expand their turf. It hurts to be there. It burns the skin of the physical body. Robert Bruce says it is like salt on a sunburn. That is apt. It is risky too because it leads to descension of vibration which could take a long time to raise again. The living who have a negative vibration can become depressed, angry,anxious and confused substance abusers.

I don't think it is kind to go to these realms to pick on them. And it is naive. For these are tormented souls with anger and few inhibitions. Instead we need to heal them, lift them, forgive them and thus heal the world.

I have had a series of meditations recently where we learnt that if the Hels would be sealed for a time so that none of the negative vibration souls could reincarnate it would be worse. Rather than making the world a better place , it would become worse. When the soul reincarnates for a time it is an infant unable to harm, the child has a chance to change, to be loved and to learn compassion, to become loving. But when they are left constrained to the Lower Planes then they will rage and storm upwards through the homes of their progeny and cause them in dreamstate to become negative too , to perpetuate evil to each other and all whom they meet. The demonic spirit is more dangerous than the demonically possessed human or so I am taught. The demon influences the humans to harm their own loved ones and to lose inhibitions to harm animals and others.

*In the Subetheric the magician cleans the astral space beneath their home shielding from entry of negs

*In the Totemic , the magician meets totem animals which guide and teach and give totemic wisdoms, they may ask what do you have to teach me and learn.

*In the Lower Planes, the magician meets the tortured souls whom are not constrained but stay by their own vibration through guilt, grief, fear, sorrow, trauma induced death. These souls can be spoken to and rescued. There is no need for them to be there. I agree with CFT and Bruce. The lower planes are not a nice place.

*In the Hels there are the depraved souls whom have descended to become demonic, some can rise upward to the RTZ to plague the living, some become so negative that they are constrained to that realm and unable to leave. Others are actually confined in small urns and containers by angels because their deeds are so evil. Some disintegrate becoming like vampire dust when the sun shines on them, in the older genre of films anyway. These are so dark in the soul that no light is left and they fall apart to naught.

The Helscapes are not beautiful to me either. They suck energy off of the projector weakening them and should be attended to learn and to heal but with caution. These realms are horribly depressing. The people do not live in families or communities. They do not eat, dance, sing, pray. They hurt each other . They scream,moan, hide and attack. They will sit upon the projector to consume their energy from the heart or head . This is not a fun place.

[7UENf0w7]

Thank you for the description. I've seen many hitch hikers and dwellers. Sometimes I wonder if some are clowns, bums, and those who hop trains. I've also watched them attach themselves to objects, so that an unwary person can take them into their homes.

Where can we learn about such things?

Grant

[uncoosesoge]

Read widely books and forums too.Initiatic Magick is one paradigm which affords attunements to various realms in order to see and hear the spirits there and method to attain those realms. Authors of Initiatic include but are not limited to ; Blavatksy, Crowley, Stone, Hurtak, Cooper and Bailey. Hermetics braided with Initiations works well. We have a hermetic discussion group going currently in Skype and might try this in TeamSpeak. After discussion, we project
to the realms.