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#1 |
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hi
as a matter of fact my shadow is staring me right up in the face at the moment, and i'm right down scared that i will repeat my old pattern again, doing "forbidden " things, being ashamed ánd feeling guilt when showing myself, without knowing why, accusing others for my misfortune etc. and this in spite of all the books i've read, the inner work i've been doing and my spiritual search...this is not to make you feel it's a hopeless mission ![]() we are all different and don't have the same level of difficulties, but if someone can learn somethjing from the work i've been doing and that all the hardships can be of some use to others, i will be better off too... the shadow of your smile, when you are gone... bye for now from transiten |
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#2 |
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if i may say a word to everyone on this thread --- working with the shadow is courageous work.
art made a couple of points in his post about how difficult & challenging this work can be. it takes courage. i respect the courage each of you has shown in taking on this type of work, childofthetao, art, and transiten. ![]() deerclan |
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#3 |
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hello, i know practically nothing about the shadow, how to overcome it or work with or learn from it. that is the darkness you are denying in yourself, not willing to acknowledge. who do you admire, almost slavishly? that is something that you feel lacking in yourself, that is not yet integrated. just a start, but so called 'irrational' emotional reactions have a deep underlying core; the fractured self that we are not yet willing to deal with. mind you, there are emotions that are genuine, real, valid reactions. but the sort of emotional reactions that freak your friends or strangers out ... that is the mark of the shadow rising. and likewise, you can see the same effect in others'; especially those you are closest to. start by observing them, and trying to decipher a deeper cause; that sort of analytical methodology will aid in diagnosing yourself. for ultimately shadow work is self-therapy. no-one else can step into your mind. blessings, ggw |
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#4 |
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nice post, ggw. very down-to-earth.
i just started thinking about posting some general things about dreamwork, if anybody would be interested. i approach dreams from a jungian viewpoint (that is, based on the work of swiss psychiatrist carl jung), and i was delighted to learn when i got here that david's recommendations for doing dreamwork fit nicely with what dr. jung has to say. before i say any more, ggw wrote a powerful, simple statement (which i am coming to recognize as a gift of his) about it: no-one else can step into your mind. the importance of personal dream images is the key statement that nobody can interpret them but you. such things as that stuffed toy you had as a child, or a nickname you got at school - those are images that are unique to you, and not even the best dream interpreter in the world can tell you exactly what they mean without knowing all about them beforehand. universal symbols are just what the word suggests - universal. certain types of images are understood by virtually everyone across the globe, and they tend to mean certain established things. a few examples are: fire, wise old woman, earth, house, walking on a path, flying, eating food, a beautiful young lover, and water. when these images appear in your dreams, an outside person familiar with dreamworking can help you see what your dreams are telling you, because they are universal. one quick example: when you see a beautiful romantic figure in your dream, beckoning you to go with him/her, that image generally represents something called the "psychopomp," a ten-dollar word for your own soul calling you to go deeper inside yourself to find the treasures there. once you get deeper inside yourself, you are likely to encounter the shadow, which is all your own beautiful traits that you have been wrongly taught are "bad" and "ugly." they may be your playful side, your sexual side, your angry / protective side, or virtually anything else that crossed somebody's mind to teach you wrongly is "bad." these shadow selves are very valuable, because once you learn to 'make friends' with them, they can turn into some of your most beautiful, powerful, loving qualities. finding those things inside yourself can be one of the most powerful, awesome experiences you can imagine. these are a couple of the layers of the soul, so to speak, that a person will likely encounter on the inner path deep inside their own soul. if a person learns to recognize them, that makes the journey much easier and smoother. maybe the mods & fellow posters could give me feedback on whether this is something they would all like to see. thanks. and again, ggw, outstanding post. deerclan |
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#5 |
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i'd like to thank everyone for all the info you have shared, i feel i'm off to a good start and that any confusion i may need clearing up or any help i may need along the way will not be a problem when i can discuss it with all of you
![]() deerclan, i would very much love to hear all you have to say about dreamwork, as it too is something i just begun to take seriously, and i'm sure too that there are many others who would value your knowledge and insights into the subject. in fact if anyone can shed a little light on an interesting dream i had, and if not i'm sure it would be an intriguing little read anyway. about two years ago i had a big kundalini activation (although at the time i had no idea what it was), in trying to understand what happened, i took to an internet forum on astral project/metaphysics and learned of the word "awakening", which really hit home with me and i intuitively felt that i had indeed "awakened". when i was about five (twenty five now) i had a nightmare that has stuck with me all my life. somehow it has always felt like the only 'real' dream i've ever had, like all the others just weren't important. it was strange though, because the dream itself wasn't actually scary, but it terrified me for some reason. i dreamed that me and some family were in my living room looking out of the window at a huge arm sticking out of our back garden (at night) that's it, i never understood the fear. now, when i typed the word "awakening" into google images looking for an avatar to use, i almost fell over when i saw the images that showed up. go take a look and you'll see what i mean. what is your opinion of those images and that place? i'm sure they must be universal rather than personal images. again, thank you all for you help. |
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#7 |
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just type awakening into google image, or go to this link http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...h+images&gbv=2
surely you see all those pictures of those huge arms sticking out of the ground? just like it was in my dream expect the one in my dream seemed a little less human and more monstrous. |
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#8 |
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ah yes, that one. i saw in years ago when i visited d.c. it was impressive.
at the moment, i'm kind of stumped with that one, tao. (i hope you don't mind if i call you "tao" - it seems to fit.) it seems to lie somewhere in the middle between personal images & archetypal images. it must lie somewhere in our collective unconscious, since the sculptor obviously got the image, you got the image, and it's similar to an image that found its way into one of my poems years ago, about a giant emerging from the earth. but three people do not an archetype make. ![]() i am tempted to say that perhaps it is an emerging archetype, but that would be making up my own words and ideas. the best i can tell you is that it seems to fit with the recent information david has brought about ancient sumer and the anunnaki. suppose the anunnaki are awakening to who they really are? do you have any thoughts or feelings about that? it looks like i threw out the challenge & got stumped on the first try. ![]() |
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#9 |
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my wife just elucidated (ahem!) your dream image for me. according to her, there is a mountain on the way into wales that is named "sleeping giant." by her account, this mountain is shaped like a giant lying down. it's covered with grass & trees, and her family used to drive past it. here's a photo"
wales: http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/mid/sites/abercraf/ she also reminded me of the norse myths, in which the gods called the aesir created the world out of the body of a giant. ok, so it is archetypal. ![]() while searching for the mountain in wales, i discovered that there are more places called "sleeping giant mountain," scattered across the globe. mt. carmel, connecticutt http://www.sgpa.org/ montana: [no actual pic of the mountain, so please pm for url] wyoming: [mods: there was no actual pic in this link, so it was removed] there is also one in the hawaiian islands, on the island of kauai, just outside the town of wailua. i think i remember that there is a limit on the number of links allowed in one post, so i'll leave it to anyone else who might be interested to do their own search. so, tao, this puts a whole new slant on your dream. so what does it mean? i do not know. i am starting to get a "creepy" feeling about it, which means my feelings apparently "know" something about it, but it has not yet reached my conscious mind. this is mildly tangential, but there is a gifted irish poet named john o'donahoe who talks about the innate knowledge in the clay from which we are made. what does the earth know about sleeping giants? what does our own "clay" know about them? this is quickly turning into a stunning productive search, tao. i'll tag on one more (rather insignificant) thing i *do* know, and that is that this thread has turned into a rather wonderful example of what can happen when a person asks for help in understanding the meaning of a dream image. i don't know about anyone else, but this is giving me a tiny tingle of euphoria. it's fun! ![]() if there is a moral to the story, it is this: *always* listen to a woman. ![]() paul |
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#10 |
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there is also grandfather mountain, nc:
![]() hi all. hope nobody will mind if i join the conversation. i also 'recognized' the idea of a hand emerging from the earth, which tao described from his/her dream, but i don't know why it is familiar to me. the sculpture "awakening" is very different from my mental picture of the idea; both tao's dream and the sculpture are more menacing than the sense i have of it. it nagged at me, so i went looking for it. was this a myth, or a fairytale i've forgotten? could it be a painting i am trying to remember? i didn't see any images that matched the feeling of this image in my mind, but i did find this text, in which an artist describes his painting, "awakening": "what you're seeing is a person being gently pulled outward from the undifferentiated, sometimes chaotic sleep of earthly existence, dying his "last" death, achieving (once again!) immortality through another change in form." i didn't especially like the painting (made up of tiny dots: pointillism?), but his description of it perfectly describes the sense i have of the arm in tao's dream. spring...beginnings...re-birth...recycle...hope...potential. |
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#11 |
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hmm, an anunnaki in a past life? well anything's possible i suppose, my intuition doesn't take me either way on that one. however i was once told that those who awaken (or experience a natural k awakening) are experiencing their final physical incarnation. that added to all the talk about et souls inhabiting physical human bodies places it firmly in the realm of possibility in my mind.
previous lives are something that have always fascinated me, but they are something i suppose will always be a mystery. the way i see this "awakening" image, we have a before and after state. before, one is trapped inside the world, blind, bound and buried. after is the freedom of a new state of being. this awakening image seems to be the transition phase in between these two states as one becomes the other. maybe the giant was once smaller and outgrew his old world? like the world being an egg. in those images on google, the arm is definitely human and also "active". it's full of life and is breaking free. the arm in my dream was brown and scaly with claws, it was also limp, just hanging there as though it was dead. now i wouldn't have been able to see this (as it was night) if not for the fact that there was a bonfire in the garden (a man was tending it) illuminating the scene. there was also a young girl about my age at the time examining the arm. she was braver than me, that arm scared me and there was no way you would have got me out there. these are all no doubt important symbols, but i'm afraid i have no idea how to interpret them. i am very new to dreamwork, and i have only ever been able to successfully interpret two dreams i've ever had, which was in act the same dream repeated in a different way. you say that david has some recent information regarding the anunnaki and sumer? i haven't read that, but would like to, could you link me to it? also i agree how interesting it can be to discuss such things ![]() child of the tao |
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#12 |
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i asked about stories of giants breaking free from the earth or being imprisoned in it on yahoo answers.
some of the replies indicate there are aboriginal dreamtime stories of the earth giving birth to giants. there's one in greek mythology when uranus imprisons his ugly children, the hecatonchires, in gaia, the earth. they are eventually freed. and someone posted a story which i will paste here although they never gave a source: the story of antonio vampa once upon a time there was a young sheperd in the mountains named antonio vampa. he was of humble family lines and lived by himself in a small wooden shack. by his home there was a cave, of indeed large size, which often he would go into. he played the flute, and loved it dearly; so much so that once, when a salesman had offered him a large home fit for seven families in exchange for the flute, he refused. one day vampa was walking along a path and noticed and old man by the side of it. having no pressing matters, he approached the old man, and asked him, "are you in need of assisstance?" the old man, looking up quite perplexed, replied in a heavy turkish accent, "yes, my dear boy, it seems i had a beautiful tune in my head but i cannot hear it." vampa, feeling charitable, produced his beloved flute from a cloth sack strapped to his back, and lent it to the old man, seeing that he was in no condition to run off with it; it was easy to see that he already had one foot in the grave. the old man, who was actually a very experienced floutist, held it in his hands for a moment with a pondering face; then, having a sudden epiphany, played the most beautiful song that vampa ever heard in his life. returning the flute to its owner, the old man said, "oh, thank you my dear boy, it has been a burden on my heart that i could not hear that one more time before i passed away... my mother wrote that for me when i was but a boy, there were lyrics but i since have forgotten them long ago... "anyhow, i believe it is in good intentions to recompense you for your time, yes? ah, i believe i have just the thing!" and taking a small vial from his pocket, he gave it to vampa. "now this potion, i believe, is very useful... it makes anything it touches grow... or was it shrink? it's been so long, and my old mind has seen too much... anyhow! it may come in very useful one day, whether you are starving and grow a small trifle into a king's feast, or a charging bull into a harmless little beast, i'm not sure. either way something changes, whether it be grow or shrink. and now i'm off, dear friend!" and exclaiming this he stood up, produced a walking stick and went on his merry way to the ends of the earth. vampa, seeing no immediate need for this vial, stashed it away in his pocketbag next to his flute. and just then the heavens became dark and dense, and the sky began to rain. vampa ran into the cave for shelter, his small home having holes in the roof and unable to keep away this onpour. he went deep into his favorite parts of the cave, to a spot where he often went during these situations, at which firewood was already present; within a minute he had it crackling with flames. becoming bored, he remembered the old man's song. he reached in his pocketbag for the flute, however, upon pulling it out the fire suddenly went out without explanation, and in the confusion the vial accidentally slipped out and broke. now, being in a state of pandemonium vampa did not notice; instead, he tried to get the fire back and soon he had it restarted. it was then he noticed the broken glass. filled with fear, he checked around for where it had spilt, but his search was vain; it could have been all over the ground or over himself. in despair that he had lost the old man's precious gift, something strange began to happen... the cave began to get smaller! now, filled with panic, he remembered that it could be that he was getting bigger. so either it was he growing or it shrinking, he did not know. but either way it was increasingly getting claustrophobic in there and the fire's smoke just added to this. soon he became cramped in the cave, and was unable to get out the small entrance tunnel that had once been just the perfect size. in time he was even unable to move his arms or legs. coincidentally at that very moment the rain stopped; however, the potion did not. in time he felt like the walls were about to burst from him, and indeed they did. many that day later recalled of a giant man, at least 50 feet tall, suddenly bursting from the earth. the potion still did not stop. getting frantic, he began to look around for the old man; however, with every step he crushed tree or houses, knocked over boulders, and the like. at this time he began to reach at least thousands of feet tall when his foot got stuck in the mediterranean. his head was in the stars, and seeing that he was too big for the earth (or it was too small for him!) he slipped his foot from his stuck shoe, and leaped among the stars, where he resides today. as for the shoe, it toppled over and was soon settled in by some very strange people, who named it italy for some unknown reason. the shoe was so big that even to this day the are convinced it is really land. they have even imitated the smell of the shoe in a dish they call "sausage lasagna". this theme seems to exist in several mythologies. interesting. child of the tao |
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#13 |
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this story fits nicely with your idea that the "giant" story represents transformation. specifically, the transformation from consciousness that sees the physical world as all there is, to becoming aware of the soul.
several elements of the story lend support to that, i think. one is vampa's fascination with beauty (music). second, he puts his love of beauty ahead of material things, when he turns down a mansion and keeps his flute. a third is his loving respect for old people - a traditional tribal value, and one that tends to get lost in capitalistic systems whose only appreciated of the elderly is what cash can be wrung out of them. (apologies to any capitalist friends here.) finally, vampa leaves the earth and lives among the stars. i got curious about vampa's name, since names generally have meanings in mythical stories. here's what wikipedia had to say: "vampa f (plural vampe) heat, flame hot flush (skin sensation) blush" from: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vampa fire is often equated with light, so vampa's name seems to imply that he was a light being. also, he was comfortable with his own inner feminine essence. this next may be stretching it a bit, but "blush" could be understood as a healthy sense of shame or natural humility. your description of the arm in your dream, however, also reminds me a lot of the old danish story of beowulf, the oldest written story in english language. beowulf was an ancient scandanavian warrior-king, a hero who fights a primal monster named grendel & slays grendel by tearing his arm off. part of that association with your dream is the grendel's description as having scales and talons. also, beowulf hung the arm over the door as a symbol of the kingdom's victory over the forces of darkness. grendel represents some kind of psychological / spiritual struggle, since he cannot be killed by any weapon, and beowulf is only victorious because he chooses to fight him bare-handed. to me grendel stands for physical consciousness, largely due to his voracious hunger, which hints at believing that one is "lacking" & needs something from outside to fill the inner hunger. apologies for the length of this post. it's easy for me to get carried away with these topics, particularly mythical images that show up in dreams. it's one concrete manifestation of the fact that we are all linked together. thanks for sharing, tao. ![]() |
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#14 |
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tao and deerclan
the syncs are so strong and i'm so exhausted i almost don't have the energy to write them down but once i get started... yesterday after reading taos post i took the doggywalk and passed a cutdown tree that has been there for a long time. only now alone in the night with a dim light coming from the right angle, the trunk looked like a sleeping giant, with an "arm" sricking up. i watched a documentary about an english blond tall woman living for one month with the much shorter kunaindians going through a healingprocess that made her say she had to go to the other side of the world to find what she lacked as a child..a loving mother. in the evening i had an e-mail from a tall blond dutch woman who hired a room at my place some years ago and told me about the "awakening" she had in a small hut in laos (the laotians are also smaller than her) she also thanked me for being part of it reconnecting her with music and astrology. there is more but this will do for now ![]() this forum really is a healingexperience for me and i'm so thankful for the contribution we are all making this to happen to ourselves. pluto has entered capricorn:breaking down and out of old structures. venus is about going retrograde:reevaluating our relationships and meeting old friends. transiten |
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#15 |
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hello, i know practically nothing about the shadow, how to overcome it or work with or learn from it.
i would like to know what books to buy and what websites to visit to gain a more in depth understanding of the shadow and what is involved with working with it. i presume some of carl jungs books are needed but which ones? i have looked on amazon but failed to find any books relating to the shadow. any help is appreciated. [moderator note: an interesting proposal for a new thread, but specific book mention is off-topic for the forum. members, any insight of your own? ![]() thank you child of the tao |
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#16 |
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child of the tao,
i know a lot of people find jung's own writings to be very difficult to understand in english. i've tried reading jung's own work, but it is too big a chore for me. luckily, there are other ways to get to the heart of jung's work. there are a lot of us who like the writings of one of jung's students, whose name is robert johnson. i've met him and found him to be a truly enlightened, gentle, humble human being with a great sense of humor and a dry delivery. i remember him talking about some myth to a sizable group. as i recall, it was about a young girl who fell into the sea, and after her parents fished her out, they named her "fishy-smell." his delivery was so dry and straight-faced, i cackled with laughter. anyhow, robert has written lots of books, but one of his best ones for people getting started in reading about jung is a book that talks about inner work in the title. i'll be glad to give the exact title to anyone who pm's me. robert has the gift of taking jung's ideas, and putting them into very simple, clear english. he was actually in analysis with jung as a student, so if there is a better spokesperson for jung, i don't know who it would be. i personally love jung's work. for one thing, jungian work is *not* finished until a person has been able to take their lessons learned and found a way to ground them into the physical world. that curbs the tendency a lot of us have just to give in to our imagination and let it roam freely wherever it wants to. jungian work is hard work, and it involves self-discipline. but oh, it is so worth it when those insights begin coming! finally, i read the sticky on "dream interpretation," and david wilcock's recommendations on working with dreams fit very nicely with the ideas of jung. in fact that is one of the things that gave david a lot of credibility in my eyes. i'm rambling again. ok, here's deerclan's "off" button. ![]() deerclan |
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#17 |
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hello, i know practically nothing about the shadow, how to overcome it or work with or learn from it. there is nothing to overcome. this direction will only lead to more conflict. when we deny ourself something, we are denying the will of our shadow. why? i don't know. i used to believe in "surrendering" to the will of the creator. again, i learned this wasn't the way. surrendering in this sense denying our will. the will of the creator can and shall come through me, and i'm free to pursue any experience desired. while these may seem to be the same thing, they are very different. the first kills our soul's desires. the second preserves them and allows us to work in harmony. work with/learn from our shadow? this starts with accepting yourself for who you are. if i remember correctly, jung said "enlightenment is not to found staring at the light, but by staring into the dark." embracing parts of ourselves can be difficult. each of us has things we want to change. thats completely normal, and ok. loving yourself, with all your perceived imperfections, will allow you to love others. there is much to be learned from accepting ourselves. as one forum member puts it, "the world is your mirror". so, things that bug you on the outside (or other people) are really things you do not accept about yourself on the inside. this internal conflict isn't easy to resolve. if one here were to claim they have resolved all internal conflict and embraced their shadow 100%, they're likely full of it, and need a slice of humble pie. the learning never stops, and each day is ripe for dis-cover-y. i too once struggled with jung's concepts. i won't pretend to be any authority on them, and can only give my insights learned from other forum members (especially soup) and david. should you desire to pursue further research, go for it. on the other hand, i think you could learn all you need here. i hope this may be a little what you were looking for... good luck. art |
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#18 |
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#19 |
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childofthetao
the place one usually first meet the shadow is...in other persons. we project our own unconscious characteristics onto another and that's why we become attracted or repelled or both, by that person. you have perhaps talents that you are unaware of, they might have been repressed by your parents or the culture you live in and then you see them in another person and thast's very attractive right. if on the contrary the characteristics are negative like aggression in a woman, she can be attracted to that because of her repressed agression, but in the end she will be repelled if the male turns the aggression towards her..or she might not be able to break out of the relationship because of codependencypatterns. then we have the archetypes that are connected to the fundamental common human experience and that's another chapter. fairytales like cinderella are a perfect start for that research and many have been analysed from a jungian perspective. speaking from personal experiences confirmed of in jungian psychology f.i. good luck from one that has been delving too deep down in the shadow for her own best ![]() ![]() |
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