[JonatonM]

killing holds great karma whether it is of someone else or yourself. it is still killing. the belief that you can end your suffering by 'ending it all' is a distortion of thought because your spirit never dies and lives on with the karma of the choice to kill which is always distorted no matter what. in a free will universe we all have the choice to kill ourselves but it is not advised. the desire to kill ourselves comes from not facing an issue we are really needing to resolve. fear and disbelief that things can get better are almost always why one feels suicidal. in other words, they have cast off their own sovereign nature to create their experience.

it is important to acknowledge that many are predestined to lose their material wealth as preparation for the 2012 event. the fear of losing material possessions will make it difficult to ascend. so certain events are put into place to experience loss of wealth if we have great attachments to it as preparation. in other words, there is a silver lining in an experience like this. we will be ascending in 2012 so some of us are meant to have hard life lessons like this for the purpose of letting go of our attachments (aka distorted beliefs).

[DeilMikina]

i know it is easy for us to give advice sitting here, but as we all know, helping others is the best feeling there is. yesterday i was fortunate enough to be approached by a woman and baby begging for money and after giving her some change i felt exhilarated for hours after! there are loads of people in hospitals and care homes who simply want someone to visit them or take them out for a bit. that might help.

[MaigicyuNinia]

here's david wilcock's comments about suicide:

these times we are in right now are meant to be the hardest, most crushing initiations we will ever face.

almost everyone toys around with suicide thoughts at some point.

the problem is that if you were to do it, by law of one terms you'd have to immediately crash-land into another incarnation, that was fairly 'random', with unpredictable parents and situations. reincarnation is a scientifically provable reality and many suicides have been examined under hypnosis in subsequent lives.

in your next life, you would then need to deliberately reconstruct, as a soul, the same experience all over again -- only worse -- and this time not decide to take your own life.

taking one's own life is a crime against the very soul. the mind convinces itself that it is a solution from the pain, but in fact it creates many new problems that, by comparison, will seem far worse than whatever the conundrum was in the physical.

on the other side you realize what a terrible mistake you've made -- and how much easier it would have been to find a way to deal with it.

look at your situation this way. you have a higher self. it has goals and agendas for you. those goals and agendas often involve serious initiation. that means never giving up -- no matter what life may bring.


i really appreciate david's input on this matter and his input was the decisive factor in my deciding to eliminate the suicide option. i've decided to not do the suicide option.


i already knew that suicide was a bad option, but i had figured that my many lifetimes would still enable me to have choices of where i'd reincarnate, not to mention move on to the 4-d reality, but the idea of losing the power of choice of where i'd reincarnate -- beit in 3d or 4d -- stopped me cold.


i've lived through too many lifetimes to lose that power of pre-incarnational choice, so i'm going to stay here in this current body of mine and figure it out how to survive. i already have several plans in motion, so i'm already working hard on enabling me to live here and now on our current 3-d earth.


i'm very grateful for david's input, as well as all of you who responded to this thread, as well as the emails that i've received from my wonderful friends and family.


for the record: i am choosing to remain alive here and now on earth in my current body!

[YmolafBp]

thankyou mozart!

this is a place we can turn to whenever these thoughts might emerge.

transiten

[N9NACzws]

my 23 year old son died by suicide a few years ago. as a survivor of that tragic event i was relieved to read that you are no longer considering the act. my son was seriously mentally ill and i always say that his illness took him, just like some people loose a loved one to another illness like heart disease or cancer. the pain the survivors feel is unimaginable and i don't think anyone in their "right" mind would want to cause a loved one the intense grief a suicide causes. i'm really glad you used this forum to reach out and i hope that you feel the light and love that is becoming more of a reality every day on this planet.

[encumeterz]

i was wondering, at what age is davids perspective valid? i mean there are young japanese kids comitting suicide becasue they cannot live up to the demands of their parents, school and society.

i just can't imagine a young kid having to reincarnate and having to choose an even more difficult lifetime to do his/her "lesson" over again. it was the "lesson" -no pun intended-that made them take their own life in the first place.

just a thought from transiten

[jackie Obrian]

"last edited by chris hamilton; 11-04-2010 at 04:03 am. reason: spiral is speaking of don elkins. david never knew him-don died in 1984 when david was only 11 "

i mentioned don being hard on david. what i meant was it seemed hard on david because he has as far as i know brought it up more than once and when mentioning this it sounds as if david didn't like the idea that don did this and seems to express sympathy.

i am not trying to point out a small mistake or point the finger at david by no means. i have only the best thoughts about him but this was just something that i didn't want people to think was absolute because i speculate people of this site would take this point from david and find it completely valid. this is an opinion and would like to say educated. there are conditions where i believe the only way to get out of would be suicide and were not intentionally created by the person committing suicide.

this isn't or hasn't been a sensitive issue for me. i believe in past lives also. in my past life i feel 99% sure who i was from more than one string of events. i am now at about the same age i committed suicide before which this person committed only because they had next to no support and was very much in service to others and kept having what seems to me as negative greetings. i have had a hard time because suicidal contemplation would pop up out of no where and have not drug on or resulted from depression just seems i am dealing with the karma of my past life. i have even had visions and felt many of the same exact feelings of this persons actions. one instance being he gave away most of his stuff and visited his close friends before leaving earth. this was before i knew anything about my past life person i researched.

this person committed suicide 18 years before i was born.

[fedordzen]

i am currently working via the phone with a close friend who is suicidal with ideations of killing people at work. she even went to a gun store and shopped for guns...did not buy one yet.

just want to thank everyone that has contributed to this topic. it has helped alot.

i believe that she is turning around and i keep sending her white light, love and all the prayers i can remember to say. she saw counselor today, got prescription for meds, which she bought, and is seeing another counselor tomorrow...not out of the woods, but at least pointed towards a meadow.

absolutely suicide is not the best solution. and this discussion has made a world of difference for many people's lives.

thank you mozart and the rest of my dc buddies.

[chuecaloversvv]

meds are not always the best way. before you put someone on them make sure you know what they do and what side effects they have. many of the big pharma companies are controlled by people with information about how to manipulate many aspects of the medications. if you want testimony go look at drug review sites which are non biased. if people on meds don't have the conditions or are falsely diagnosed usually the medication has the reverse effect.

[arrendabomnem]

well, i got the shock of my life this morning.


my entire family crafted a single email in a word doc, then each of them (5 of them) sent me identical copies, as it was created as a "team" of them, to me, and in that letter, they totally cut off any connection and communication with me.


no more emails, no visits of any kind, no allowance of my visits of any of them -- totally cut off. they've already blocked my email address, so i cannot contact them this way and i'm nearly deaf, so emails are the only way that i can communicate with them, so they know that i won't be calling them by phone.


i've already sent them an email to them explaining that i've decided to eliminate the suicide option, but it seems that they did not get the message. completely mofo disowned. they say that they are not disowning me, but they are by their actions.


ya gotta be kidding me. i dunno, man. i totally cannot believe this.


i have a younger brother who is a multi-millionaire, yet he is so disdainful of me that he would not deign to send me any money to help me out. how callous is that?

[dafodilkemmy]

when you are on your own all you have left is your intuition.

[Peabelilt]

love yourself....know that we are your family

[JAMES PIETERSE]

well, i got the shock of my life this morning.


my entire family crafted a single email in a word doc, then each of them (5 of them) sent me identical copies, as it was created as a "team" of them, to me, and in that letter, they totally cut off any connection and communication with me.


no more emails, no visits of any kind, no allowance of my visits of any of them -- totally cut off. they've already blocked my email address, so i cannot contact them this way and i'm nearly deaf, so emails are the only way that i can communicate with them, so they know that i won't be calling them by phone.


i've already sent them an email to them explaining that i've decided to eliminate the suicide option, but it seems that they did not get the message. completely mofo disowned. they say that they are not disowning me, but they are by their actions.


ya gotta be kidding me. i dunno, man. i totally cannot believe this.


i have a younger brother who is a multi-millionaire, yet he is so disdainful of me that he would not deign to send me any money to help me out. how callous is that?

damn. i agree that is callus.

i just couldn't do that. i don't care how crazy my family member was acting. maybe i would love that member from a distance. but i could never completly cut them off.

it is just so hard to console or say anything because i don't know the whole story.

ok... so all i know is that your family left. that is cold and harsh. i totally agree. now, the question is what to do next. there is love out in the world. and sometimes people's closest and most loving family members are not blood related at all.

sometimes our blood related family members can be more toxic than anything. are there any friends or anyone you can trust to talk about all this with?

hang in there mozart. for some reason, i have no idea why, your own higher self has set these circumstances up for you. just know you are loved, man.

[finasteride]

just to share my knowledge and give you maybe a new perspective.

in buddhism, the act of suicide amounts to major negative karma. because in buddhism teachings, one wants to detach oneself with the ego/self. meaning, you are not your body or your mind alone. you as a spiritual person wants to treat your body and mind as everyone else. you want to have compassion for everyone else and yourself because you are ultimately not just this body and mind.

by committing suicide, you as a spiritual person is actually killing another person - not just yourself. so the negative karma is huge on your soul or your true self whatever you want to call it.

anyways, i don't know if this will help or not .. i'm not sure if it's something your friend will want to hear since he's at such a low state in life .. he probably doesn't care much about these spiritual stuff. i just hope everything will be fine in the end.

[MAKEMONEY]

wow, ya, what a trip. i cannot imagine how you feel, not really. but foosnik is right, there is love in the world, and your higher self perhaps just wants you to go out and find it? also, of course, you are love, but i can see how that could be hard to swallow right now.

you are not alone, not ever, and i hope you can hear these words right now at least. you may feel like you are being tested in the most crushing way and my heart goes out to you. but you were right when you said you didn't want to have to do this again, why you chose not to choose suicide as an option. stay focused on that as much as possible, stay focused on the reasons you rejected suicide.

reach out to whoever you can reach out to, including this community here. keep talking, stay in touch. it is of course your path so you get to choose, but if we can in any way keep you focused on life then by all means let us help.

in infinite love and light,
karen

[virtuah]

hello!

i haven't heared from mozart lately and i'm truly worried. please get together and send him a lot of loving energy.

transiten

[barsikjal]

when we think about suicide, we think about cases in which people kill themselves out of depression and despair and hopelessness. however my question regarding this topic is, would the same karmic implications apply in cultures in which suicide is routinely practiced and even encouraged?

in japan for instance, suicide is deeply rooted in the history of the culture (as with ritualized hara-kiri and so on) and is often glorified in subtle ways. thus the japanese have a high suicide rate. people kill themselves to preserve their honor after losing jobs, failing exams, and so on, a practice which at least dates back to the ancient samurai. how would the karma affect a japanese person committing suicide under this pretext, as opposed to somebody in the united states in which suicide is mostly discouraged?

what about kamikaze pilots who crashed into enemy ships? what about said ancient samurai who killed themselves rather than fall into enemy hands? what kind of karma was generated by these suicides?

also, if you were incarnating in a culture in which you would be expected to die with your spouse, even if by suicide, would that create bad karma? my guess is you would know ahead of time before incarnating that this would be expected of you and you would be likely to do it and it would be planned out, hence no negative karma.

what about when socrates ingested hemlock? did he have to reincarnate and somehow face that same situation again later? what if he had chosen death at somebody else's hands?

who is the big cosmic judge that would work out how all of this karma would be resolved? and how would he/she do it? i think he/she would have a tremendous headache. but i somehow doubt that in every case of suicide across the world you'd have to reincarnate and do it all over again, or that all the "normal" rules would apply. any thoughts?

[Wachearex]

i think suicide should not be looked upon with such taboo and that it doesn't set you back karmically at all. first of all, i don't believe in karmic debts literally. i feel that there is karma but that you don't owe anything to anyone. to me it's a matter of vibration and the fact that negative vibration eventually attracts negative things.

we have to think about suicide in terms of the mind body and soul. each part of this trifecta can be compromised leading to your death. no one would naturally want to kill themselves just because they're curious about death. a person's inner reality is what decides how they feel and that is a subjective decision. when it's good, death is not appealing. essentially you can die in one of three ways...

body: when the body is compromised you become ill. people whom die when the body is ill are considered to have died physically.

mentally: the mind can be overloaded causing you to make an illogical decision leading to your death. when you make a fatal error based upon a simple miscalculation of logic, your death was psychologically related.

spiritually: this is where suicide plays a role and it is the only time when choice is involved with the death process. spiritual deaths occur when a person's determined reality shifts so radically and permanently that they cannot find a way back to how they want it to be.

when the spirit is compromised your decisions about life seem to totally malfunction on every level. no matter what you do you are depressed and it will not change. this becomes your permanent reality even though it could potentially still change. sometimes it feels like something is never going to change even though there's a good chance that it still can. i've been through this phase many times in the past so i know what it feels to have the spirit nearly compromised.

spirit matters are subjective whereas logical matters are objective. when a spirit matter becomes objective, you could find yourself wanting to die because then it is like your reality is being totally controlled by an outside force. when a logical matter becomes subjective, you are deceiving yourself into believing something that is utterly dangerous to your well being. being a slave to things you do not want to feel is a terrible thing and sometimes it appears that the only way out is suicide.

[pavilionnotebook]

suicide and me are old friends or enemies whatever you want to call it. its been a huge lingering part of my life for most of my life and it still sticks around these days like a bad smell you cant get rid of although in the last year or so i have been doing mentally better than before. these days its more to do with health problems i cant get rid of and right now i feel a bit lost again. i cant physically get out of my house i feel like **** on a daily basis and doing web design which seemed to be the one last thing i enjoyed doing that i still could do is also becoming harder. most days i sleep all day and then am up all night.

anyway something thats been on my mind and i have often wondered about.

what are the karmic repercussions of euthanasia!? also what about people who do not wish to be recusitated!? wouldnt this come under the same bracket as suicide!? and what about if you do get brought back to life after dying!? isnt that somehow against nature? is it at all possible that by going against nature or the way things are happening that this is somehow karmically wrong!?

what about abortion? obviously this would not be against the aborted fetus but the mother? im sure its a hard thing to live with and is not an easy desicion in any case but what could be the karmic repercussions of this apart from it probably haunting you for the rest of your life.

what about assisted suicide, helping someone to die!? would this be bad karmically for the person being assisted because it is their desicion or would it be against the person helping the person to die.

i wonder if deciding to take your own life because you are so ill is karmically bad!?

if when we move up to 4th density do we need our bodies?

i also wonder what will happen to all the people who will probably kill themselves in the next year or so in the lead up to 2012 because i really do believe that a lot of people will, there have already been a lot of suicides and family murder/suicides!?

if your soul does live on after you die where will all these poor souls go who will probably kill themselves in the next year or so because of the fear of what will happen on 2012?

just some things that i have been wondering.

[Mr Andrews]

they have many options,
that do not require suicide.


it costs very little money,
to eat uncooked oatmeal or raw potatoes.
both of which have very complex carbohydrates, that burn for a long time.
preventing your blood sugar from spiking and dropping.

a person could easily live for $2 a week, off of either one.
if they drank a spoon full of olive oil every several days (healthy fats),
than their health could stay good for years and years.


or to park their car in a walmart parking lot, and live out of their car.
(walmarts usually tolerate that,
because the car-camper usually buys things from the walmart.)


if a plant does not numb or sting someones tongue,
when they chew up the plant and hold it in their mouth,
than that plant is likely edible.
and there are usually plants growing all over the place.


if they wrap themselves with trush bags,
than the warm air will be unable to move away from their body.
so that they could stay warm, even on a freezing winter day.

my boots are air tight pvc rubber.
my feet sweat with heat,
unless i am standing directly in a foot of snow.


their friend does not have to last forever.
they only have to last until the elites are neutralized, and the economic system is changed.

which from what sheldon nidle types, isn't too terribly far into the future.




anything that can be created, can also be destroyed.

if karma is created, than the karma can be paid off.
the only karma that is infinite, is karma that a person creates over and over again, forever.

but most people do not choose,
to create the same thing,
forever.

so when they stop creating the karma, the karma stops getting bigger.

like a merry go round eventually stops spinning,
after you stop pushing it with your legs.




the point of people incarnating onto earth,
is not for them to avoid creating karma.

the point of people incarnating onto earth,
is for them to learn as much as possible.

so that their spiritual growth will be large.



learning new things, usually requires someone to get their hands dirty.
and make a mess.

it is possible to learn from other peoples messes.
as i have learned a lot, by observing the messes created by others.

if no one is creating a mess, than there is no mess to learn from.




the original posters friend, made a mess.
the original poster has the opportunity to learn from that mess.

one way or another, the original posters friend, will recover from his mess.
if not in this lifetime, than in a future lifetime.