[jokilewqs]

basically what your talking about is basic judaeo christian mythology, or the biblical distortion.

one thing to understand about the bible is that it is truth. it has truth in it just as every other great book of wisdom does. i spent a lot of time as a christian reading that book and coming to an understanding about it.

there is a layering of information there. ie the garden of eden is not just the garden of eden. cayce's information goes into a lot of detail about the symbolism in the bible. the garden of eden could stand for the body, as in it being perfect at one point, the apple represents the distortion of the truth (ie the knowledge of good and evil) and thus as we consume the apple, we are expelled from the garden of eden or the perfect body.

cain and able's offering...

in the bible this story was about the offering that they gave. able's offering was of his choicest or best livestock, cain kept the best for himself and offered only the second best for his offering. this is why it was rejected, not necessarily because it wasn't a blood offering. i haven't heard anything about this in regards to the other levels of understanding, but it could deal with the messages of being selfish or giving.

good and evil

in the bible, as far as i understood it, good and evil where choices that reflected either service to god or service to yourself. the entire message of the bible is primarily about choosing to serve god, ie in turning toward god and moving with him and his will. evil was about turning away from god and departing from his will. it was always about your choice...

in my understanding now, its more about service to others, or service to self, veiled in the distortion of good and evil. i could go into greater detail about the nature of good and evil as i understand it in the bible but it would take up quite a bit.

lucifer

in the bible, lucifer was the most beautifully angel in the armies of god. he was also the leader of those armies. he was also jealous of the praise and worship that god had for himself. he basically said to himself "one day my throne will be exhausted above the lord's" . he tempted one third of the armies to fall away with him. god easily cast them out of heaven and they went to dwell on the earth in the 2nd heaven (which is basically the sky)

lucifer has gone on to represent humanist in many shapes and forms. basically he personifies service to self, in serving the desires of the flesh and experiences of the flesh in this world. even cayce goes into a little detail about this, saying something along the lines of the devil representing the lower chakra's and the earthly vibrations.

zachariah and the tablets.

i don't have any information on this.

are we here for a reason?

depends on who's truth your working out of. in the judaeo christian view of life and reason, the entirety of our existence is to simply serve and worship god. we are meant to be his companions, to choose to be his companions. there are other distortions there about salvation and the necessity of a savior. there are the themes of sacrifice and law and justice there as well, all of which play a big role in the story.

in the layers of truth, there is a greater and deeper meaning to that though. this means the serving of others, in so many ways, as a way of serving god. we see in the loo that service to self requires that they deny that god exists and instead become god to themselves, and so in serving themselves they are serving god. so basically its a matter of serving the god in others, or serving the god in self.

in ending.. i will say this. the bible is not a book you can simply pick up and read through and understand easily. and thats just understanding the basic story.. never mind the layers of truth.. it is truly a beautiful book in its own right. nothing involving the bible is as simple as an what i've explored here in very short manner.. there are many deep and complex themes going through the bible and it takes a deep understanding of the faith to truly comprehend some of those themes, and that requires very simply being in the distortion of that faith.

[Imiweevierm]

brilliant response, thank you ewhaz.

the only thing i have to differ on as far as all this goes, is that any god who condones the slaughter/ sacrifice of animals is not the true god.

if you love someone, ie, our animal brothers and sisters- then you don't kill them, and you don't eat them.

i'm not saying that eating meat is wrong.
what i am saying is that it feels wrong given a choice.

what i am saying is that i feel that the corruption to the "garden of eden" or "the fall"
is based around the "food chain" and animals killing other animals for food. even plants have consciousness.


surely there are higher dimensions where this will no longer be necessary in order to live.

surely a true god who is pure, infinite love.....would not condone killing and sacrifice and blood shed.

what i am saying is that "god" is actually an extra-terrestrial.

i read that the original meaning of the word "god" actually meant gods, plural and it meant "those who came from the sky".

[Vedun*]

this is something i have been discussing a little bit with others, online, yesterday and today. i would like to know if any of you can offer some more feedback on this topic which fascinates me. please tell me anything you may have come up with according to your research.

i'm particularly interested in the story of the garden of eden and by the fact that "god" gave to humans "every herb bearing seed" and to animals "every green herb".

then the lord god refuses cain's vegetarian offering, yet praises abel's blood offering........

there are so many distortions.

who is "good" and who is "evil"?

who was lucifer?

did zachariah sitchin interpret the sumerian tablets accurately?

are we here for a reason?


~just a few questions that obsess me.

perhaps, ~just my humble opinion~ a more enlightening approach would be to search for the unifying themes? - the oneness. all is one. to say i believe in this and this and this etc...but the "true god" would never do this etc, i feel is only reinforcing the idea of seperation within your own mind. the "true god" is in fact everything therefore to suggest that you feel the "true god" is this -- yet not that, by its very nature is a negatively oriented statement reinforcing the concept of seperation regardless of the attributes one is assigning to their so called "god".

i think it is wise to study the qabalah before attempting to extract wisdom out of the old testament. much written in these books of the bible is completely unitelligable without a means of deciphering the true meaning. the key is in the qabalah.

[jokilewqs]

sacrifice in the bible was a significant cornerstone of the faith. the simple idea was that god could not stand sin in his presence at all. he was holy and sin was an abomination to him. first it started with the sacrifice of animals which was traced back to adam having to kill an animal for his skin to cover up his shame after eating the fruit.

after that god demanded a sacrifice for sins. later this would be connected to the sacrifice of christ as being the last sacrifice for all time. the animal sacrifices where symbolic of christ's ultimate sacrifice for our sins. the analogy is about covering sin with a sacrifice, all through the bible it talks about washing in the blood of christ to cover our sins, or more to the point to cleanse them completely.

but that is all biblical, and some people have had there sticky fingers in it from time to time. read it if you like, but do so with prayer and understanding. there is more information about christ outside of the bible, and it says many different things about who and what he was, its hard to know the truth of it all. i think for myself, he was simply the best example on how to live a loving life.

sacrifice is also a great theme in this density too, as cayce might say "there is no love without sacrifice"

its important to understand that the cycle of life is life perpetuating life through sacrifice. plants feed the herbivores, the herbivores feed the carnivores and it goes on and on. you would not be alive today (in the flesh) if something did not sacrifice its energy for you to continue living. eating is simply energy exchange in a very physical form. in the end, those animals die as well, feeding more animals and their remains being incorporated into the ground to start the cycle again.

while there is nothing wrong with feeling that animals are feeling living and breathing entities, try not to let it become such a point that you try to stop the cheetahs and the lions from eating there fill!

in the ra material, they make suggestions that not every one here has always incarnated on earth. that in turn has affected there bodies by some energetic means that there requirements are slightly different than others. thats why some thrive on a vegetarian diet and others on a meat and potatoes type diet. there are some basic vitamins and such that you simply cannot get from a vegan diet that is too restricted, you would have to take supplements to replace them.. and some of those come from animal sources as well!

i always try to feel thankful for the food i get, no matter what it is (and yes i still enjoy a steak once in a while). perhaps the themes of sacrifice are expressing themselves to you for a reason?

[Imiweevierm]

imo, the bible contains words designed to manipulate humanity.

it is astonishing that people still take it seriously.

if you have ever felt a pure bright feeling of love and light pouring into your soul from outside of yourself whilst praying or meditating, you would understand what i mean in the limitations of finite words when i say "the true god".

perhaps the "true god" does not interfere with this world at all, but can be tuned into on the right frequency.

perhaps the "true god" is beyond vibration.

perhaps the "true god" is simply infinite love.


by the way, i do, however believe in the words of jesus (though of course the story was distorted to fit in with many other savior stories). the words of jesus are the only part of the bible i personally feel are spiritually uplifting. very powerful.

of course, he was a member of the essene brotherhood who are vegetarian.

we should trust no-one but our inner, higher selves.

[Romobencience]

dear friends,

this is my version of god 101. what or which you all wish to believe is up to you...

god or what ever word one wishes to use is a cosmic energy force that is unconditional love.

now being unconditional love, this force can create whatever it wants.

it will "show" you that which you "perceive" as being "good" and that which some consider "bad."

it gives you though the "choice" to decide that which you at every moment will choose what is "important" and what isn't.

for the "source" it is unimportant which you choose.

the "source" gives you these "choices" be they "bad" or "good" in your "eyes."

for the "source" it is neither.

it doesn't care.

for the "source" is all things - good and bad.

in the "end" - all things are "good."

for when you eventually see things for what they "are" and what they "are not" you will then "see" that the "source" has seen through you that which it "is" and that which it "isn't..."

and all will be well ;-)

love always.

david

[Imiweevierm]

actually, i thought after visiting this thread.....that perhaps the bible does have more truth in it than cynical people give it credit for.

david,


love your outlook!

sometimes this site has given me the feeling that my soul is in flight!
on wings of the wisdom.......of beautiful words.


goodnight from me here.
friends across the ocean- enjoy your afternoon/ evening!

[jokilewqs]

the bible has been used to manipulate humanity, yes.. however, there are layers upon layers of wisdom in those pages, it would be foolish to simply through out the 'baby with the bathwater'.

take what you need, leave the rest is my best suggestion with any form of wisdom, even humanists (satanist) have there own great wisdom to share.

and as far as good or bad goes there is a passage in the bible that goes something like this.

i can do anything i like
but not everything will uplift me

basically the message was, sure i could go out and be a heathen and in the end there would be no real harm.. however, not everything i might choose to do will be of benefit to my soul. i'll have to search for the actual scripture some time, its a good one.

and no, i no longer believe in the 'saviour' distortion, my spirituality is much broader now but i would not be here to day with the wisdom i have without going through that distortion. it was a blessing.

[Cajlwdvx]

define,define define. how many years will we look for truth by defining the past. while we are distracted by proving who and what we are, the dysfunctions of many grow everyday. i know truth...you know truth. that is all good, mean while the fires burn. just be love....give to mother earth....and know we are one. we may never change the evil....but we can live in peace. it starts with in. i honor all and peace to all.

[Imiweevierm]

ewhaz and h20chris,

love your thoughts.

[Cajlwdvx]

we do feel each others thoughts, we are each others thoughts. we have the power to change this place we see, all that runs through you and me, if only we could stop to believe how much power we can perceive. i agree we must know our past, but we must see what is in front of us and the truth we live in. they were talking about this thousands of years ago and we still are. when do we live it?? so many examples of what doesn't work, why not find ways to fix it? all we have to do is think about it. the truth lies within all of us and comes in many languages and forms. bless any one that wants to share.....peace to all.

[Poreponko]

brilliant response, thank you ewhaz.

the only thing i have to differ on as far as all this goes, is that any god who condones the slaughter/ sacrifice of animals is not the true god.

if you love someone, ie, our animal brothers and sisters- then you don't kill them, and you don't eat them.

i'm not saying that eating meat is wrong.
what i am saying is that it feels wrong given a choice.

what i am saying is that i feel that the corruption to the "garden of eden" or "the fall"
is based around the "food chain" and animals killing other animals for food. even plants have consciousness.


surely there are higher dimensions where this will no longer be necessary in order to live.

surely a true god who is pure, infinite love.....would not condone killing and sacrifice and blood shed.

what i am saying is that "god" is actually an extra-terrestrial.

i read that the original meaning of the word "god" actually meant gods, plural and it meant "those who came from the sky".

we don't have to wait for higher dimensions or densities to cease the abominable act of eating. we are already capable of living without consuming our fellow lifeforms in this reality we live in. it takes a period of time to adjust and some discipline to stick to it though. i am finding it quite difficult to do because of where i live. i am unable to see the rising and setting sun due to the trees surrounding my abode. i'm casually looking for a new location where i can see both. below are some links to the information. i have also found indirect references to this fact through materials from another channeler. i've emailed you links to that source already since they don't allow free discussion of alternate sources here.

[please email jim if you would like to see a you-tube on sungazing-note: it does advertise a specific group]

[flopay]

" are we here for a reason?" (ameliejolie)

i think i saw this in a link from dc;
christ hovering in an upright position, saying in effect ~ we are here to raise our vibration.

individually, collectively; as one

[Cajlwdvx]

how many teachers will there have to be, until we hear what it is they have to say. this is the part that gets me. so many know, even the ones that think they don't.....know!!!!! this is why it only comes down to you and what ever god represents for you and the daily truth with your actions. the real goal is to know who you are...live in peace.....and truly be happy...give thanks for all.....then you are doing good. peace to all!!!!!!!!

[FredderiK]

i would like to believe that. i however believe there is more to it and that good/bad are just illusions. a distortion to the law of one. it does not matter which path is chosen for both service to self or service to others leads back to oneness. i believe this distortion is intentional as it creates a motivation to learn, gain wisdom, and seek, which ultimately ends in a merging of all experiences into a conscious unity complex.

when we look at the yin yang for example we see dark and white as opposites yet both of them combined do make up the whole. in the same respect we would not know good if we didn't have bad and we wouldn't know bad if we didn't have good. we would know neither if this distortion and free will did not exist and if these experiences did not exist, we would have nothing to base our knowledge on, for all knowledge is gained from experience whether it be good or bad, which s a result of the distortion which created our free choice between good (service to others) and evil (service to self).

when you look at the law of one you notice ra speaks of the naivety of them attempting to help us because they evolved differently and didn't have all the experiences we had. it was harder for them to assist when asked. they didn't do anything wrong because right and wrong are just illusions. the path of wisdom is taken on when you can meld the good and bad experiences for this creates wisdom from experience.

i believe we each have a choice which path we choose in the game, but we should remember evil as we think it or service to self will always exist in 3rd density and continues on to forth after we graduate by to choosing what path suits us due to the distortion and is it a catalyst for knowledge and growth, else we would possibly be stagnant. water does not move if it lays level in a cup. it moves when you hurl or drop stones in it or pour it out. adding something different and unexpected. if we knew not of evil, that would mean we would not have a choice for all we would know is good. we would be like the water without stones being dropped in it or someone pouring it out. unchanged.

this is the beauty of it all. the distortion and free will is the ultimate catalyst for love/fear then knowledge based of the love (service to others) or fear (service to others) path.

just my two cents

love and peace to all!

[Cajlwdvx]

there are many ways to say the same thing. i believe that the greatest truths are short and sweet, then we define them. i never said anything about good or bad, if your action pleases you, then that may be your truth. there will always be a dichotomy of realities. personally i have witnessed to live good in your heart, listen to your truths and actually care...then life seems to bring that energy. we are energy, all of this...we are what we think..all of it..everything. may love prevail, there is always peace for anyone that desires it. you are right..there is no up without down....but that is why we can think about it, what we choose to do with it, is up to us or our choice to be down with it. peace to all...good and bad!!!!

[Imiweevierm]

this is something i have been discussing a little bit with others, online, yesterday and today. i would like to know if any of you can offer some more feedback on this topic which fascinates me. please tell me anything you may have come up with according to your research.

i'm particularly interested in the story of the garden of eden and by the fact that "god" gave to humans "every herb bearing seed" and to animals "every green herb".

then the lord god refuses cain's vegetarian offering, yet praises abel's blood offering........

there are so many distortions.

who is "good" and who is "evil"?

who was lucifer?

did zachariah sitchin interpret the sumerian tablets accurately?

are we here for a reason?


~just a few questions that obsess me.

[mirex]

i have thought about this topic a lot myself also, the truth is such a passion for me.
i have read the biible and come to the conclusion that a lot of the god's were infact alien beings, angels are alien beings in another dimension, these are the same gods that the egyptians, greeks and romans prayed to apollo zues etc. its obvious from our history that aliens have been here in every culture the same creation story exists that brothers came from the starts and began civilisation. i'm not saying they were evil or good, some were service to self and some are service to others.
query 1: would god ask a man to cut off his foreskin?
2: is god angry and jealous?
3: does god need a cloud ship to move around?
4: do the 10 commandments really sound as if god , the ultimate life form, wrote them?
5: would god teaze and test a human like a cat with a mouse? (abraham and his son)

i'm sure a lot of truth exists in religious books if one has eyes to see through the "gunk" but i'm also sure that a lot of it is aliens and not god.

thats my thoughts.
but there is a god, look inside and you will hear his/her words for yourself.
love babyblue

[bs44MhUW]

i'm sure a lot of truth exists in religious books if one has eyes to see through the "gunk" but i'm also sure that a lot of it is aliens and not god.

aliens as the "gods" in the bible is a very agreeable inference.

i jumped on board the bible, full force, from day one 16 years ago. slowly but surly, i've come to conclude there isn't a single truth in it. i am just now, this year, reading it from a perspective that it doesn't hold any true spirituality in it. i am seeing that it is a book of stories whose ultimate goal is to convince its reader that they are not capable of thinking on their own and they should hand over all decisions to the "spiritually elite." from there, every story invokes fear and guilt, no way around it, imo. i've just re-written the first 8 chapters of the first book of the new testament to read as i see it's hidden meaning (manipulation).

anyway, i agree that aliens could certainly be transposed for the gods, but it also appears believable that every word of it is made up. i am more inclined to the latter these days.

[Immusaatmonna]

12th uranus,

you mean you don't see a huge difference between the amount of truth and spirituality between the old testament and the new?

for me, when i thought about it and after reading sitchin and others about aliens and human civilization, it made a lot of sense that jehovah was one of the annunaki, and indeed one of the worst. after that i looked at the old testament more objectively, and while i could say much about the character of this jehovah dude, the point i want to make is that the old testament says nearly nothing about spirituality. it is almost entirely a historical chronicle. it speaks of jehovah or god and the assumption is that there is something very spiritual being discussed. but it isn't. it is merely the long tale of a particular tribe in their relationship with jehovah, who seems intent on building a territory to rule over.

the bhagavad gita says, "for the soul there is neither birth nor death, and is not slain when the body is slain."

the old testament has nothing comparable.

at times, in gratitude, the old patriarchs and prophets might build a little shrine and have an offering. but this isn't really very spiritual. and there is very little in it by way of the usual teaching that religion gives about prayer, meditation, uplifting ideas about god, abstract ideas about god or existence, or how to improve oneself.