[GtmFeqJJ]

simply put, patriarchal means "father rules". since what goes on inside us is what is reflected out into the world, what we "do" internally has everything to do with what we send out into our world.

we have all talked about all the aspects of the divine feminine; from attitudes to actions. i believe that all aspects are all important, but in my opinion, the part that has been hardest to grasp has been the importance of it in our philosophy of what god is within ourselves. since most people's concepts of god originally stemmed from a religious training of some sort, we have to look at the part religion plays in how we view god. the da vinci code kind of brought this to the forefront for many people in the form of the question whether christ could have been married, etc etc. the thought that hundreds of generations could have been duped by "those in power" shielding away the "truth" of a female figure in the original hierarchy of the church, opened up for many the possibility of being lied to in all regards to any form of "feminine" within the holy trinity. that concept was deemed "satanic"...and many people were killed for it. in my own experience with acknowledging a holy mother, i originally found i was afraid to. that's mighty enlightening....why was i afraid? i found that i was afraid it was evil, based on my own imprints. that was very important for me to get to the bottom of...for me to find internal personal peace. i realized in this process, that i truly trusted god's love for me, so that even if god was only male, he wouldn't hurt me for asking...then, if there was indeed a holy mother, wouldn't he just rejoice that i had made it past those imprints that locked me away from her? like a grand "holy halelueia!!!" (snicker)

while i can't possibly acknowledge all religions in this discussion, just mentioning the christian one here is as an example of a male-dominated educational system for people. for eons we have lived in a male dominated culture as human beings, i don't think that can be disputed. and i think most can see that our culture has to come back to center before the chaos will subside. harmony must exist between us as people, and harmony must exist between us and the earth.

even if you disregard all aspects of religion, each person in this life ultimately answers their own question as to whether they believe in god or not. my premise is, in your own study of this, ask if you are locked into the concept of our creator as only a male substance (because of our imprints). if you look at life forms, isn't there always a male/female creating new life forms? in my opinion, the absence of recognizing the possibility of a female part in "what god is" or our ultimate creator, creates an imbalance at the core of how we view our worldly experience...and it just goes out from there. i hope that you can sense the correlation i am trying to make. it is hard to put into words.

i just think that personal balance begins within... in all ways...and if we can find the balance within and how to maintain it when life throws us curves, we are doing our most important part in getting this world back into balance.

all of this speculation i simply offer in love, sharing my experience. i hope i do not offend anyone in regards to their own beliefs.
/dreamweaver

[GtmFeqJJ]

since we know that the patriarchical dominance in our human race must be balanced through the re-emergence of the feminine aspect of our godselves, how can we help acknowledge her? since many people turn off the thought as blasphemous or pagan (all of the other labels), how can we shine the light on her in new ways?

/dreamweaver

[yovbQVpD]

through love and acceptance.

the feminine nature has been seen to be acting more and more masculine in today's society. some men act more feminine than in ages past.

the question is this the right way for people to find internal balance with both their masculine and feminine sides...

remains to be seen.

[hereiamguy]

the divine feminine is every-where and in every-thing. she makes herself known to all and works through all when we ourselves become aware of her presence within ouselves. look and listen closely.

love and light
ds

[AntonayPina]

@dreamweaver

i just red a book about innana, the old summerian goddes of heaven and earth. before the religios systems were patriarchal they all were matriarchal. the femine goddes has been worshipped for over 100000 years. the summerians then when the settled and build great cities, rewrote the story and now a male god has created the universe with his voice. (around 10000bc) this due to the growing power of the priest and their hunger to control the people. but interesting was the tale of innana, she was godess of heaven and earth, after her god rules over heaven and send his angels to earth. i don't know if the book is available in english. but it was a very nice tale in which male and female were going hand in hand. maybe it might be useful for us as humanity to get a better picture of our female aspect by giving more attention to the old stories and myths.

blessings, ld.

[johnteriz]

you of course aren't going to be able to "change em all." but if just you and you alone are accepting, honoring, and balancing the female/male aspect, then it will shine brighter amongst everyone. i find female/male everywhere...but i have practiced a pagan path for a while now, and it's very important in such path, as earth is full on female and male aspect, with out it there is no existance here. the delicate moon is that of female aspect, and the strong sun is that of male...as the babies of spring return to us (plants, birds etc.) you are seeing the female aspect at it's finest and most precious of works.

dating back many many years ago, people believed in both as being of god like. perhaps if you read a little into those fine myths (even as lord dragon mentioned) it will open you up to what, where, how, and when you can open up to the feminine side of creation...and how it truly does balance the male.

if you are more to follow a biblical path, then honoring the mother mary, or mary magdaline, they are both female aspects that are brought over to christianity, you just often have to expand on it a little bit.

[mikefertynnz]

hermetic principle says that the pendulum will swing as far to the left as it did to the right. not only does the goddess need no help, she can't be stopped! it is simply time for the pendulum to swing. and swinging with it is just plain easier than futile resistance.

bring it on!!!

[GtmFeqJJ]

yes, we are undergoing a great transformation at this time on the planet and it begins with going within. the first time i felt the urge to connect with my holy mother was because i actually wanted to be "held and coddled" by her while i was distressed. so i started to pray to her, but stopped abruptly, because i didn't want to offend god (the father) who i have always prayed to my whole life. so i asked him if i could. the response was "of course!!!!!! and halleleuiah!!!! of course, he'd love the acknowledgement of his holy partner. i suddenly felt how locked into that old image of a white haired judgmental man i still really was, without realizing it. once i began communing with my holy mother, my whole inner connectedness with guidance began blossoming in ways i'd wanted forever. i don't really need to think of "them" or god as two separate beings, or even a trinity, or any way for that matter anymore. i just found a peace about god within, like never before.

/dreamweaver

[johnteriz]

what an amazing and honest story dreamweaver. it warms me to know that you have connected to the divine in such and honest and open way, and i hope that as you continue to grow on your path, that the connection continues to grow with you


many blessings


i love this thread by the way

[Roxanjbra]

yes, we are undergoing a great transformation at this time on the planet and it begins with going within. the first time i felt the urge to connect with my holy mother was because i actually wanted to be "held and coddled" by her while i was distressed. so i started to pray to her, but stopped abruptly, because i didn't want to offend god (the father) who i have always prayed to my whole life. so i asked him if i could. the response was "of course!!!!!! and halleleuiah!!!! of course, he'd love the acknowledgement of his holy partner. i suddenly felt how locked into that old image of a white haired judgmental man i still really was, without realizing it. once i began communing with my holy mother, my whole inner connectedness with guidance began blossoming in ways i'd wanted forever. i don't really need to think of "them" or god as two separate beings, or even a trinity, or any way for that matter anymore. i just found a peace about god within, like never before.

/dreamweaver

i have heard different reasons for why the great spirit or god is referred to as a male energy. maybe it is the lack of fathers in our society or it is a paternal period of time we are in. but i think the truth of it is that the great spirit is both male and female at the same time. in the great scheme of time, we are only a few small steps away from being animals so it doesn't surprise me that the first idea of how to solve a problem is to use aggression and force.

i think people like gandhi and martin luther king have done a great job to show that there are other ways of dealing with problems than to strong arm it. and any male who can be a strong warrior while simultaneously be open and honest with his emotions would be freeing other males from the old ideas that real men don't have emotions or that to show emotions is a sign of weakness.

does the pendulum need to swing all the way to the other side in which the females hold all the power and the male energy is suppressed? or is the next stage to be a time of balance in which both energies inside of us are recognized and respected?

[GtmFeqJJ]

great thoughts and questions foosnik. about that pendulum swinging all the way back to the women in power and men's suppressed.......i think that it would be awesomely wise for men to at least imagine for a few moments what life would be like if they were denied the "priesthood", the most powerful jobs in the govt and business (and best paid). imagine if you had great intelligence and gifts of leadership that you were subjugated into only being able to use in your own home; instead of being allowed out into the larger world with them. imagine for a moment having images of your body plastered everywhere for the opposite sex's most animalistic belittling; worse yet, your actual body used and cast aside, then made fun of for your weakness and vulnerability. the list goes on and on.

i know, i know, many times, women aren't all innocent bystanders in this. there are always two sides........and that is the point.....we need to hear each other. the female has been silent, submissive, held back and victimized for eons, and so, in order to reach their own empowerment, at first, yes, we may rage and assert.....but that pendulum will calm down as we are understood and respected and find our equal place. every thing is step by step, always beginning within.

the pendulum swung within me all the way to the other side it took to say a prayer to my holy mother. then after that, everything else was easy. and i think each person's own pendulum needs to swing within their own thoughts.

love to you!
/dreamweaver

[dubballey]

what does the holy mother represent to you if not submission and humble loving service to husband and family? to me this is femininity, and the crime is that it is not praised and honored and revered.

if a woman goes into the world and takes on leadership roles and careers and so on, she isn't giving power to the feminine principle, she is taking on the masculine and rejecting the feminine. this isn't empowering the feminine - this is rejecting the feminine.

men have a sacred duty to honor their wives, but you don't honor your wife by making her work a job or taking her out of her natural role of nurturing children and sustaining the family environment.

the feminine is sustaining, nurturing, receptive.

the masculine is creating, refining, outgoing.

you don't honor femininity by making women act like men. you honor femininity through service and reverence and respect and love and shelter and protection and deference.

[Roxanjbra]

there are always two sides........and that is the point.....we need to hear each other. the female has been silent, submissive, held back and victimized for eons, and so, in order to reach their own empowerment, at first, yes, we may rage and assert.....but that pendulum will calm down as we are understood and respected and find our equal place. every thing is step by step, always beginning within.

the pendulum swung within me all the way to the other side it took to say a prayer to my holy mother. then after that, everything else was easy. and i think each person's own pendulum needs to swing within their own thoughts.

love to you!
/dreamweaver

i know. i have no rose colored glasses on. i see how hard it can be for women. just being out muscled makes it really hard to be a woman. being physically out powered. but i also see all the pictures of the perfect male physique and all the talk of, "does size matter?" lol so guys have to deal with a lot of insecurities about their bodies in our manically materialistic society.

i had a very strong and powerful mother who weathered a lot of storms in her life. so i never had the idea in my head that a woman could not be a leader.

it is weird because this morning, right before i read your reply, i read something in the newspaper about the new archbishop of ny. i don't know how it got to this but it said that women were still not allowed to be in the priesthood. i honestly thought that had been changed and i was awestruck by that. i mean the thought that a woman could not have deep, spiritual things to share and enlighten the people seems so ridiculous and out dated to me. no wonder their institution is crumbling to pieces.

i just think that the goal should be that we all recognize that we have both within us. it would be great for a woman to recognize that she can be both gentle and nurturing while also be strong, outgoing and independent. and for a man to realize that he can be a strong warrior and provider while also being, kind, compassionate and nurturing.

there will always be free will to play whatever roll we choose to. but hopefully people won't be so insecure about gender rolls in the future.

[zlopikanikanz]

i don't know how it got to this but it said that women were still not allowed to be in the priesthood. i honestly thought that had been changed and i was awestruck by that. i mean the thought that a woman could not have deep, spiritual things to share and enlighten the people seems so ridiculous and out dated to me. no wonder their institution is crumbling to pieces.

personally i think it has more to do with the insecurities the leaders of the church have. the could be afraid that women will have a more spiritual impact and may over take their control and power.

any institution built on a foundation that one being is better than another, in any way, is coming to an end. the more of us that wake up and realize we are all one, all equal and all love each other, more and more of these institutions are going to crumble to pieces.

[Gypejeva]

god doesn't have a religion, people do, so change the religion however you feel you must, but don't just complain that your religion isn't fair, find a way to reach god that best suits you.

[Fsfkkkjz]

i agree dragon! control is always motivated by fear. fear of the feminine in this case. and while people accept it when a female takes leadership and leads from a masculine perspective they don't accept the female perspective, from a female or from a male.

a matriarchy would be focusing on different values than the current patriarchy. but a total switch would just cause different problems not a total improvement. i think the best would be a balance, a leader who is both feminine and masculine.

the feminine purifies the masculine, it gives direction and perspective to something that would otherwise be an unguided and potentially destructive force. but without the masculine she would not be able to express herself and could only be impressed upon. only when the two become one do we come to the full expression of self.

as for god being male, christ spoke about his heavenly father and our bible reflects that. what the bible doesn't say but what can be found on the other not accepted gospels is that he spoke of his earth mother without talking about his human mother. he meant the earth and the heavens are a polarity from which all is born. also mary magdalene according to some of the other sources was christs equal. imagine what would be if the church would have accepted this? i'm pretty sure it would not be falling apart today if it had. we'd have a pope and a popa.

just because the hierarchy fears femininity does not mean reality fears it. the feminine by nature is less visible, but in most places she's not less powerful.

[Roxanjbra]

personally i think it has more to do with the insecurities the leaders of the church have. the could be afraid that women will have a more spiritual impact and may over take their control and power.

any institution built on a foundation that one being is better than another, in any way, is coming to an end. the more of us that wake up and realize we are all one, all equal and all love each other, more and more of these institutions are going to crumble to pieces.

yeah, you are probably right, purple. everything does seem to boil down to scared, insecure, old white men. scared old men who are afraid to lose their money/power/control.

god doesn't have a religion, people do, so change the religion however you feel you must, but don't just complain that your religion isn't fair, find a way to reach god that best suits you.

never had a religion and never will. just spirituality for me.

[GtmFeqJJ]

when i described the female being subjugated in many ways, i was speaking even more about the female beyond the usa, in other places in our world where even currently women are still not allowed a voice or even exposure other than their eyes, and hands. if you look at the bible, for example, wives had to cover up except for only their husbands, yet concubines existed.....what's up with that!!!!! just an example. how about eve, and what happened to her for wanting more knowledge!!!!! how about the thousands of men's names acknowledged there and only 113 or so womens; talk about alot of unimportant females, hmmmmmm. yikes. enough of those sidetracked remarks though. what i really wanted to share was some other thoughts of a more positive nature...

i think the "male" (within us)'s drive for power and influence can be tamed and humanized by tempering (sometimes surrendering, "female" aspect) our will (or ego) to divine will. the balanced male/female becomes the power of love rather than the love of power. when we get there inside, humanity should theoretically be ruled from the heart.

a side note: i feel personally that i was only using half of my brain, until i started acknowledging the female side of divinity.....it just seemed to open doors of insights into my self that i really needed. i was very out of balance without realizing it. i don't claim to be in balance now; still very much a student.

more than just about balance in power though; i think it also is about balance in respect for each other. again, i think we help each other by listening to each other...

[GtmFeqJJ]

i'd like to share something of a different perspective here, that i think is another way to balance our male/female aspects of ourselves. by turning back to nature for spiritual guidance, instead of just through books & parables & such, there is alot of ways to find answers to those kinds of questions that "take us to our knees". in taking a walk out into nature near my house with an agonizing soul searching problem on my mind, i was able to privately cry & talk outloud to myself. i walked for about a mile down a dirt road between some pastures, headed towards a meandering little tree lined creek that is just now turning green w/spring. i sat down on a rock & studied the trees & looked for all the little hidden living things that delight me once i spot them. after my mind had quieted down, i heard the "questions to my questions" that alot of times seem to be my wiser self answering the more childlike part of me (the way counselors always turn the questions back onto you). i answered those questions & felt that i had gotten the guidance i had needed & stood back up, & turned to go back home. (running out of room, continued in next post)....

[GtmFeqJJ]

directly in front of me, i came across a monstrous hulk of a dead tree that stopped me in my tracks, because it looked so monumental, all white and barkless like a giant sculpture. as i spanned up & up to the top i saw that the whole top of it had been blown out by a lightning bolt. whoa, the remaining stumps and branch made it look like a halloween tree! so i walked up closer and around it. it had been totally hollowed out by the torching of the bolt clear out the base at the bottom. i thought that this must have some message in it for me...it was just so powerful a symbol. and then it dawned on me crystal clear ... we can totally destroy ourselves by literally streaming in too much light energy into the top of our crown. i had been so intense in my earnest search for answers in the light, i wasn't seeing what my dark aspects could also teach me and thereby balance "me" better. what? well, for instance, my fears are dark, yet fears aren't necessary all bad. take a mother's words "be careful" are warnings to not be reckless or too fearless. a 2 yr old is fearless but can run into great harm in total innocence. the dark side of the moon is still the same underneath the shadow. your bedroom is still the same when the light is all turned off. i think mother nature's statue was telling me to balance learning from both my light and honoring my fears and resting more, so i don't get too intense as i pull in so much light. i hope this is making sense to you and that it possibly could help someone else in some way. i "cooled down" my intense spiritual growth lessons for a couple of days, just played in good ole 3d world and feel so much better now...ready for the next new day. thanks for "listening". /dreamweaver