[hereiamguy]

yes amelie, and if you take a look at the devil card from the waite tarot deck, the chains around our neck that bind us to this thought form are pretty loose. so much so that we could quite easily slip them over our heads and just fly off. the point is, can we see this and are we ready to do it?

love to all

ds

[Vitoethiche]

this has been a question on my mind recently and just popped up after seeing a similar question.

i have not been able to find the answer of absolutely knowing ...keword: absolutely knowing that we have free will. i have contemplated this for a huge amount of time and this is one of the most important questions i have ever even thought of.

it seems like we have the will to do as we please and choose but at the same time everything seems to "happen for a reason" even though we would choose other wise.

yet i have kept in mind not worrying about free will because we are all one even if some see it and some don't and this point is made very apparent and stressed multiple times in the ra material.

yet in most all the edgar cayce readings that i have seen the closest answer to it was: "we have the will to do this or that" but never actually says we have free will to will ourselves to do this and that which are two totally different things. (as far as i have found maybe others have better material in his readings).

but it would seem almost that if we are one being it does not matter what we as indivduals do because we all are following the golden mean or universal pattern therefore are just the will of the universe.

ahhhhh.. but wait! everything also seems to come from a zero point of pure benevolance and from that highest benevolance (highest benevolance meaning the universe is already at the point of its highest potential at all times because if form had a choice it's best choice would the formless which is completely pure) and also everything has to be now. anything can change within the now but the now is always there.

so since the universe is so naturally intelligent and powerful it could just be that we choose with free will to step out of the now because thier is both infinite time and space to do so and gives each of us individual space and systems as cayce described them for all of our free willed choice to be harnessed within this universal super computer. the first thing the purest form offers is benevolance to all that is in its higher form and then that benevolance would seem to give free will. (which was just in davids reading that he initially gave to a human couple and ended up as a reading for many people). i had also thought about the first option from the highest purity was also free will before david had mentioned it in his reading from the ra entity.

but on the side of no free will everything has to line up perfectly in order for thing not to have anamolys and be chaotic. like in order for me to stress this thread to others it has taken what seems to be: a universe-a hospitable planet-evolved species-communal technology-a common view point-electricity-perfect timing ect ect ect ect. so it can be argued that all things that have experience and seem to have choices are all dependent upon causes and conditions that would otherwise have not of happed which i believe runs somewhat congruent with the butterfly effect.

hmm wellllll hope someone gets some in depth answers and don't just post what materials say and can't show you why. we need some good hard evidence here.

i thank all of you who listen i really glow when i see others take the time to put effort into these threads. :d

[eduptultyt]

i am starting to believe that "free will" and "everything happens for a reason" coconstitute one another like each indivdual and his or her world.

they are interdependent of eachother. you need them both in order to be created and to create.

[Amirmsheesk]

hello spiral cycle

if we did not have free will, what would the meaning of our existence be? wre don't have free will to do whatever without consequences, but if we didn't have free will to choose evil we wouldn't discover good either. the thought of man not having free will makes me sick. that would mean that something outside ourselves were manipulating us like puppets on a string, which we also are as long as our consciousness level is low.

free will without boundaries is not free will but total chaos, we must have something to relate to, ohterwise we would not discern our free will from the opposite....

my 2 cents liliane the transit

[zawhmqswly]

earth is a love school in which basically we can choose to make the right choice, to act from love, or not and suffer pain.

even with this binnary choice, choosing the right kind of love is not straight forward and we many times take the wrong turn.

so, we have free will to choose whether we suffer or not. suffering is only caused by the lack of love to self or others.

love

[mikefertynnz]

if free-will implies total freedom, unlimited choice, then the answer is an obvious no - we do not have free will. total freedom likely only comes in source itself, and even then it seems that source is not merely compelled to create, but it is the ultimate "no-thing" as well. no free will there either. and there is no amount of will that would set one outside of the one, so there is some ultimate order, some ultimate pattern which all must oblige. no amount of will can free one from unity.

do we have limited free will? absolutely. so what is that? one of the best ways i have come to understand our free will is that it is our ability to choose our own freedom/limitation factors within manifestation.

for example, perhaps i want to be a total hippie, bang my bongos on the beach all day, bong my bhang, and beach all my ambition. freedom! huzzah! and the obvious limitations are you don't know when and where you'll get your next hot shower. people can't reach you to involve you in exciting social events because you don't have a phone. [off-color though funny remark removed-pm leo to ask about it]

instead one may draw the freedom/limitation line thusly, the opposite way. the inherent limitations of maintaining a home, a phone, a social life? one rarely, if ever, gets the opportunity to properly while away their days bong-bongoing on the beach.

so, within the limitations of all of creation, whatever the localized universal rules manifest as, we have absolute will to choose where we draw the line that decides the factors of our own freedom and limitation.

mind you, this is not merely polarity, or duality. it is not just a choice between two things. it is the choice of where one places one's perception upon an infinite line, many infinite lines even. i suspect some aspect of this freedom/limitation factor continues on even into 6d, where, as i recall from the law of one, the duality of love/fear becomes reconciled. existence other than as source still must fall as a point on an infinite line, or at best as the intersecting points of a wave crossing that infinite line.

as for absolutes?...eh. even if science came up with a program or experiment to prove it absolutely, and published all the results far and wide, would that change one's experience? would it alter one's need to address and co-create their own reality? nope.

use the will you have, with love and intent, and seek the balance that affords the greatest freedom and the least limitation. that is the center where love rests, where it seems we all wish to dwell. total freedom, absolute free will, is rather intimidating actually. let's just find our center first!

[prearpaccew]

nothing in 3d life is ever absolutely known...... it is knowing that you do not know which grants you power/wisdom in this level of progression.

questioner: i am assuming that it is not necessary for an individual to
understand the law of one to go from the third to the fourth density. is
this correct?

ra: i am ra. it is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. understanding is not of this density.

law of one, session 16, page 164.

continue spiraling ever upwards,
austin

[Longwow]

this has been a question on my mind recently and just popped up after seeing a similar question.

i have not been able to find the answer of absolutely knowing ...keword: absolutely knowing that we have free will. i have contemplated this for a huge amount of time and this is one of the most important questions i have ever even thought of.

you are right, it is a most important and essential philosophical question, particulary in regards to christian theology where it has been considered a real pain-in-the-backside's gordian knot for mileniums.

when one asks the average person what the term, freewill, actually means --and what that implies -- they usually get a impatient look on their faces and declare something on the order of this: "well, i'm not quite sure how best to describe it, but i know for sure as heck that i've got it!" then they follow this up with a triumphant smile while waving their arms freely to and fro to demonstate their point.:d

in christian theology the fuss is over man's fallen relationship with god. question: "can man -- by using his freewill power of choice -- choose god and salvation?...or does one have to depend on the influx of the holy spirit to overpower his sinful nature and enmity with god in order to effect the change? doctrinely speaking, on one side you have the "feewill" theologians known as "arminians" and on the other side are the pre-determinists, known as "calvinists". needless to say, believers have been burned at the stake over this very question.

part of this squabble is fueled because of the orthodox conception of god and his creation...(that's usuns ) the general view is that the cosmos was created out of nothing (a miraculous creation ex nilhilo ) therefore there is an absolute gulf seperating the creator from his creation. this is a theistic view of god with the divine creator held as transcedent to his alien creation.

however the above concept is not true according to the loo religious philosophy. with "all is one" comes a different view of things as per "the divine cosmos" in this case there is only an apparent but not real gulf between the one creator and its creation simply because god is the cosmos. obviously the one creator is immanent.with itself (if that was all to it this belief would be describably as pantheism. but -- and this is most important -- though god is the cosmos the cosmos is not god. the concept of panentheism covers both grounds by holding that the one creator is greater than the mere sum of the cosmic parts. the higher doctrine would be that god is both immanent and transcendent.

so instead of being mere alien puppet things created out of nothing...we are created out of the very being of god. 'god with us' suddenly takes on a different twist!

wow! everthing changes!...the old idea of "sin" (i.e., rebellion against god) has got to be redacted, it just doesn't apply in the original feudal sense of rebelling serf's breaking laws laid down by the king in the castle and thus due for proper punishment.

so -- considering the above -- what is and what isn't freewill?

first of all we must put "choices" in the right perspective. our choices are an effect not a cause. the actual cause of our actions originates within our nature. the so-called freedom of the will -- as self-determination -- merely describes that mental/spiritual condition which is the abiding inclination of the permanent spiritual self. the subjective energy of the human will is all that a man can call his own and be responsible for.

freedom of will is not the same as freedom of action, or being dependant upon having a vast variety of choice options presented to us. our freedom of will is internal and not dependent on making or not making choices. being put into prison is a violation of our personal freedom but not directly that of our free will. now to be "brainwashed" would be a violation. being given certain information that would force itself onto our thinking in a manner to radically change it would be a violation of will -- even if the person asked for such...and that is what the ra studiously attempted to avoid. on the other hand withholding information would not be a violation (oft times i would wish my info bank would be violated...in the right direction of course but short cuts to spiritual growth don't help but rather detour our spiritual adventure)

having free will doesn't mean we can accomplish things outside of our proper sphere of activity. i cannot by an act of will immediately change certain emotions or circumstances... such as deciding to repent and love god with all my heart and mind...to painlessly will away the consequences of a habit which was started by a simple and careless act of will such as smoking... or more dramatically final, jumping off a towering cliff.

somewhere in the dc archives resides a posting i did a couple of years ago where i copied a list of positive definitions of finite freedom, plus several negative definitions, with the benevolent idea that it could serve as an ongoing reference aid. i can't find it. i feel my will is being violated...not my free will...just my everyday ordinary will.

if the above doesn't resonate, just delete.

best. bbbb

[Eagevawax]

greetings campers,

the short answer to the question raised by this thread is: yes, all humans and others, living on any 3d/4d planet/reality have free will. it's one of the reasons we come here. but, free will is not "free", in the sense that here, all decisions have consequences. god, his angels, those of sixth density and beyond, do not have free will. they do not have the option to chose evil. this is how angels "fall"...

bob

[freddystone]

well maybe not everyone has free will.

my ex-wife, for instance had an outrageously expensive will! :d

[RicyReetred]

greetings campers,

the short answer to the question raised by this thread is: yes, all humans and others, living on any 3d/4d planet/reality have free will. it's one of the reasons we come here. but, free will is not "free", in the sense that here, all decisions have consequences. god, his angels, those of sixth density and beyond, do not have free will. they do not have the option to chose evil. this is how angels "fall"...

bob

quite correct, only now i come to the understanding, who ever will go through the rupture or shift will have made their choice within the concept of free will, and with that have alined with the light. with that no more free will.
by the way, angels do not fall.
all implications play out within their respective vibrational levels.
regards detlef

[drgshmcm]

in reference to astrology & free will, cayce says,
"while there are those influences [from the planets] those urges latent and manifested, know that no urge surpasses the will of the entity - that birthright given each soul that it may know itself to be itself, and by choice become one with the creator...."2571-1
&
"for life is a continuous experience. and the mind, the soul, the will, are those influences that act through material manifestation for the improvement, the development, or for retardment to the whole of the experience."1235-1

[economex]

a thought of mine on free will.
i believe we have the choice (free will) to choose either the positive energy,
or the negative energy. our free will allows us to choose good or bad,
whether it be to service to others, or service to self.

if we have been in service to ourselves, we have free will to change to
service to others, or vice a versa.

as the negative and positive must exist side by side, free will has allowed
us to choose which direction we will take, as neither is right or wrong.


peace & love!

[Longwow]

more info than you want concerning the phenomenon of will.

the proper answer to the question: "is there freedom of the will" might be that of yes and no. it all depends upon the perspective.

in respects to a freewill choice the natural question should come up, "just what caused the will's choice?"

caused it! ah, there's the rub! free will is something supposedly floating around untouched by influences... free to strike out without any strings attached.

the reformist, martin luther wrote a treatise on the characteristics of the will in response to the great scholar erasmus who had levied a work upholding the concept of free will in contrast to martin luther's ideology. martin's devastating counter-argument consisted of "on the bondage of the will" -- aspects of that work have remained unanswered down through the centuries.

for our purposes, what it boils down to is this: yes, the will is indeed free in its motion of self-determination, but the will itself is in bondage to the underlying nature of the individual. so, the acts of the will have a cause behind its action, which are not suprisingly found residing in what we think of as the "heart".

so, perhaps a more accurate description of relatively free acts of self-determination would be that of "heart will" rather than the baggage-loaded, indeterministic term, "free will".

all of this reminds me of the trick question that has no suitable answer from an innocent one. question: "have you stopped beating your wife yet?" "yes, of course..! i mean, no...ahhh, hmm. wait just a sec here!!...."

best, billybobbutterball esq.

[Quonuttott]

what is the true meaning of free will? how much do we know when we are born? do we all have a conscience? do our circumstances mold us? if we are not taught a skill or have not acquired the wisdom, then surely we are limited; not in control?

how can we judge another when we have not walked in their shoes?

does sadness lead us to madness.....compelled by the ebb and flow and the tide....into the shadow?

is there any such thing as "right" and "wrong" or are we simply led......misled by this veil?

have we forgotten who we truly are?

are all dark acts really a reaction of confusion....of madness.....and longing.....to return once more- to who we truly are? because we realize this world is mad.....and something isn't right?

who is free?

perhaps there is only love. perhaps only love can set us free.

perhaps.....there is no real evil except ignorance itself; a desensitization; an amnesia of our true nature- unity with all of life.

[CAxrrAYN]

hello everyone, i found this reading and thought i would post:

from ec and group dynamics by worth kidd (1971)

2537-1
....so soon as man contemplates his free will he thinks of it as a means of doing th eopposite of god's will, though he finds that only by doing god's will does he find happiness. yet, the notion of serving god sits ill with him, for he sees it as a sacrifce of his will. only in disillusion and suffering, in time, space and patience, does he come to the wisdom that his real will is the will of god, and in its practice is happiness and heavens.

262-3
as we open our hearts, our minds, our souls, that we may be a channel of blessings to others, so we have the mind of christ, who took upon himself the burden of the world. so may we, in our own little sphere, take upon ourselves the burden of the world. the joy, the peace, the happieness, that may be ours is in doing for other fellow. for, gaining an understanding of the laws as pertain to right living in all is phases makes the mind in attune with creative forces which are of his consciousness. so we may have that consciousness, by putting into action that we know.

5749-14
q- should the christ-consciousness be described as the awareness within each soul, imprinted in the pattern on the mind and waiting to be awakened by the will, of the soul's oneness with god?

a- correct. that's the idea exactly! (doesn't this answer sound like dc today)
the soul, carrying the blueprint of the christ-consciousness is the real self. this is the part of us that is determine we shall grow; that we shall strip aside our materialistic ego's and achieve oneness with the father. we have free will. the choice of oneness or separateness is ours.

the lord thy god is one. 3376-2

[JetePlentuara]

just as it is when we attend school in our youth...our curriculum is set. what we do with it is up to us at all times...

its not what life gives, its what you do with it.... :d

[nerkvcbtre]

ra: i am ra. it is absolutely necessary that an entity consciously realize it does not understand in order for it to be harvestable. understanding is not of this density.

indeed. the only thing i've understood is that i understand absolutely nothing.

free will and "fate" is one of the classic paradoxes.
we create paradoxes because of our flawed and limited understanding of this world in 3:rd density.

we have the free will to believe in free will or fate.
yet fate has decided for us to have free will.

it's a futile discussion i think.

[Phywhewashect]

i was sitting here, trying to think of what to write, because i think this is an interesting question, and my thoughts went to the interview i heard earlier on, with rik clay talking about the 11:11 synchronicities, and how that would tie into free will; he talks about all these important events happening within the framework of those numbers, and how was all that planned, what's it all about anyway, and i looked down at the clock on my computer, and it was 11:11, nice one.

when you watch all the research on mind manipulation that has been going on for thousands of years, makes you wonder just how much individual freedom there is. i find myself constantly thinking and doing things seemingly against my will, if i was a sane, rational, functional being, i would not have these self destructive impulses.

i know i am manipulated within myself by the events in my past, by the belief structures that have been placed from the outside, by oh so many influences, just where do i fit into all that, and who am i?

who's pulling the strings? anyone with half a brain can see all the string pulling going on in this world - it would appear that whoever is doing it must be insane. we're told to stop giving away our power and come into our own power. is that what free will is?

in the movie the green beautiful, the inhabitants of the little planet took back their power by boycotting all harmful products, and brought about a revolution into a golden age. that movie was banned by the european union, it wasn't allowed to be sold or shown, ( luckily youtube came through and you can see it there ). does anybody still think big brother doesn't exist?

my mind boggles. an uplifting, piece of art movie was banned. i still can't get over it. as much as i have been aware for 40 years now, about the bb phenomenon, it's still hard to grasp. but wait, if someone is trying that hard to suppress us, it must mean there is a threat, and there is such a thing as free will. right?

i hope this discussion continues, i'd love to see some more points of view.

[hereiamguy]

i came onto the site about 30 minutes ago and for some reason clicked on david's blog's and went straight to the "divine cosmos under attack" blog. i vaguely remember reading this ages ago but not having got as far as his description of the devil card which in one part says :

"but if you look at the chains around their necks, you realize they could easily be slipped off"

i've always used the the same same description for this card almost word for word. freaky - in a nice way.

love to all

ds