[bppstorr]

"hmmm... reincarnation/preincarnation .... what should i choose?: a celebrity, maybe a windsor/merovingian/rothschild, or a how about a slave/victim of terrorism?!?!"


okay, yes, i have read the ra material (all the books, online, it was exhilarating, and yes it all did resonate w/me), but as a person who is every moment experiencing a "hell consciousness" i still have to question : "what the hell is going on here? did i actually choose this? cuz this is effin ludicrous!"


thats why i need help on this:

a) are we saying that a person decides beforehand (pre - incarnation) to be born into a life (with definite knowledge) that they will be born and definitely be bludgeoned, mutilated, killed by drunk driver, raped, go to concentration camps, victim of genocide, etc, etc, etc, be crushed in world trade???

b) are we saying that a person can choose a life knowing (with definite knowledge) that they will be a great celebrity of some type (music, movies, entertainment, art) and choose to be worth $380,000,000 on the forbes list? (does one get to choose being a movie star??)

c) are we saying that one gets to choose (with definite knowledge) to be born into an illuminati/elitist family??

d) and there must be some "first come, first serve" on this, dont you think? how does one choose to be a celebrity, illuminati family, or a murder/terror victim

e) does this mean that because of the existence of celebrities/royalty/forbes list lives that they all must have deserved such great lives and were able to choose these lives because they "earned" it in previous lives, and for balance

f) does this mean that anyone living in hell on this earth right now (hell consciousness, daily abuse, daily rape, daily poverty) that they had done bad in there previous incarnations, or they had (good) previous incarnations that chose to be balanced by a bad horrible murder in this life



(i hope this makes sense, because i worked really really hard on this post)

[illiniastibly]

i think the idea is that everyone gets the chance to experience the lessons that each set of circumstance gives them and chooses to be born into a body where those circumstances are most likely.

it's no coincidence that david wilcock has a similar astrological chart to edgar cayce as the influences of the planets really do show you some of the parameters of your life. you have free will to work within those parameters so if your astrological chart says you have planets favorable to being a celebrity/fame/fortune etc you still have to exercise your free will to achieve it.

destiny is the potential and free will is the vehicle.

but, the idea that you would choose to born when great tragedy is a potential is hard to understand as we avoid pain and suffering. why would the elephant man choose to be born etc.

i believe that we exist to appreciate ourselves and each other and to strive for those moments of humanity and dignity when the chips are down or when you are on the top of the world.

if you are truly an immortal soul who is temporarily in this human body, born to lose, what is the one thing you can do better in a short time than you can do in eternity?

you love harder, you love deeper. you know the end is just around the corner so you appreciate that sunny day, you know your kids will grow up and leave home so you love them while you can. immortality doesn't afford the luxury of loss and failure that's why we choose to be mortal.

i don't think it's a 'race to the top' as many people portray it. i don't think it's just a role playing game where you gain levels of density and more powers as you learn lessons in some progression as much as an infinite system where a soul chooses to pop in and experience something meaningful like love at any point in the timeline.

why would our next incarnation be a 4d one anyway? if time isn't linear then why wouldn't you choose to be a peasant in some simpler historic time in your next incarnation rather than a more enlightened being with esp and a spaceship. i know i'd appreciate living without the negatives of the modern world for a lifetime or two after this one where computers and technology have been such a huge influence in my life.

[theatadug]

hello tifferella!

as always, we can share how we view things but we still might view them different.

i feel that there are 'levels' of a prime characteristics that we must experience at different times. i feel certain levels are necessaries. for instance, one person might be born into the life of deep empathy while the other is born into a life that tests their patient of temperament. characteristics if we fail one of these prime personalities in the beginnings, we might not get so much as the choice of which test to take next if you will. mabey if we let the darker part of the opportunity take us in one life, we will come back into a life of a ''victim", automatically.

also, ma bey being a victim in one life is also....a lesson of the absence of love. should we not have to experience this? but what if....the one before manifesting into this matter of illusion....had to experience the absence of love in order to appreciate? i believe we truly are a reflection of the prime creator, god, god head, one, what ever you want to call it. if we experience a life in this 'illusion' of being un loved, without love, or feeling a void within....then somewhere, it is a neccesity for the one to feel this.

to be born into a life of riches it would be hard to find a humble rich family to come into. and second, it is a life itself with a hard lesson. the lesson of not letting the riches rule you. remaining humble and helping the world would be the only way to remain humble in that life.

what if one dies being a part of this secret group or what ever. the person did bad things. in the next life, even though he might have a required course in being a victim of some sort, he still might have the choice to take his next life in the characteristic personality of power, ego, pride ect. when we run out of these golden tickets of opportunities of mastering a personality, if you will(im not sure how to describe it)....you become a very dimmed light, to me this is the ancient talk about becoming darkness, your light is forever dimmed, your energy runs out. one day, that light completely diminishes. what if then, some get the diminished light so fast that they still have a opportunity left on the list to experience a lesson? this is what i find in the demon idea. a being with enough energy to 'be', but not enough to become into matter again. it spends the rest of its energy in a power ego thought. scary thought to think about a energy that is mastering the power ego thought without a matter body.

i think at some point, we have to pick at least one opportunity of being a victim, to know what its like. most people find that loosing a dear loved one is the primal victim experience. being the victim in one life can help open a womb of deep empathy in another. if you are numbed in the previous life by something, your likely to be stronger in the next. if we choose to get the victim life over with and plunge into it, i believe we choose to take this ride when our high self knows its going to be able to reach out to us better, knowing something will open that door for the strength to make it through, for the love of ourselves.

the test in every life, for the sum of our measure after each life, is living more for others then ourself. no matter which characteristic or personality we come to master, we still always must try to live for the other 'selves'. all in all, this is the main lesson of loving oneself, when you love all your other selves. if we are all a part of a whole, then every one is a part of the 'i' 'eye'.

just my thoughts

peace to all,
lynette

[illiniastibly]

also, ma bey being a victim in one life is also....a lesson of the absence of love. should we not have to experience this?
lynette

maybe through the pain we are able to appreciate the fact that we don't have to deny love. when you have nothing left but your free will and you choose to love instead of hate that is a lesson learned.

i feel that there's only an absence of love when you choose for it to be that way.

[sesWaipunsaws]

hello tifferella and all,

i really don't believe that we "care" much about the human labels that we live against in our lives. when we are working at the "soul" level, our true selfs, we see life, incarnation as an opportunity to gain in experience from various angles.

sure, in our human eyes, the life of luxury, $$ or the power of influnence seems appealing and glamorous were the opposite seems horrible and less than desired. our true selfs, our soul, our hearts know our "real" strength and ability to endure life and agrees to experiences these. as e. cayce would say, to gain in soul development. it is up to us in our life to choose to walk our path, to do our best, so that in the end, we can judge ourselfs against what we had hoped to gain in the experiences, oppotunities that we face day by day.

you are your only judge, no one else, although we allow others "judgements" to enter our thoughts

when we can step out of the game of life, (human eyes), and step into our true selfs, non of these characteristic of human self makes any sense, they are just part of the game, part of the complexity, part of the problems that keeps us all separated, rather than one.

don't give "labels" any power of your true, real self. you are already very powerful as one with the one. just be a flower and bloom each day !

~ keep peace flowing ~

[Janarealiti]

hi lynette ,

i think at some point, we have to pick at least one opportunity of being a victim, to know what its like. most people find that loosing a dear loved one is the primal victim experience. being the victim in one life can help open a womb of deep empathy in another. if you are numbed in the previous life by something, your likely to be stronger in the next. if we choose to get the victim life over with and plunge into it, i believe we choose to take this ride when our high self knows its going to be able to reach out to us better, knowing something will open that door for the strength to make it through, for the love of ourselves.

i would offer the observation that "being a victim" is a response to a catalyst. it is not a catalyst itself. we cannot always choose everything that will happen to us (even pre-incarnatively, certainly not once we are incarnated). we can and do however choose how we respond to those events. having a loved one brutally murdered is certainly a powerful experience, but "becoming a victim" need not be the response. the pennsylvania amish families that lost their young children in the school shooting in 2006 are a wonderful case in point. it would have been very easy (in our society, even expected) for them to respond with fear, hate and anger toward the assailant, the school, the state and even toward god. rather, and amazingly, they responded with love and forgiveness. so, i agree with the way you originally worded the statement "opportunity to be a victim", but not that we must eventually have a "victim life".

additionally, i would suggest that each life is truly rife with these opportunities. our litigious society is an excellent example of the victim mentality gone awry. if we choose to blame others for our misfortunes, then we are playing the victim, and we are certainly destined to experience another, perhaps greater "opportunity" because we missed this one. when one recognizes that they are ultimately responsible for what happens to themselves, and takes responsibility for their actions and their happiness, then the “opportunities” diminish and eventually fade away. the catalyst was processed, the lesson learned.

3d

[espenijij]

hi tiffarella. i won't bother asking how you are feeling since your last thread as it's quite obvious. i have a question that i'd like you to answer for me if you can.

are you getting images or flashes in your mind of incidents or situations where people are being physically or mentally abused, raped, killed, victims of terrorism or war or of any other kind?

is this what's happening?

love

ds

[egexgfczc]

you have some really great questions, tifferella. i would like to share some of the things i have learned about reincarnation with you.

first off, i would highly recommend that you read michael newton's two books, journey of souls, and destiny of souls. he has been researching past lives for 30 years and is a master hypnotherapist. his books share some of the 7000 sessions he has had over those years, and what insights he has gained about past lives, karma, agency, and to my mind the most interesting - the time between our lives when we regroup, review, digest, and yes plan for our next incarnation.

i contacted one of his past life regressionst and have had 3 sessions - they were amazing and life changing for me.

now for your questions:

a) first off, the definite knowledge we have about our current life is lost to us the minute we are born - this is called many things - "the veil", or "the veil of forgetfulness" are a couple of names for it. it would defeat the purpose of choice, or free will if you knew what was going to happen while you were here. not to mention scare the hell out of you... you would not gain from your experiences the desired knowledge if you were constantly anticipating what was coming. (not to mention wanting to hide)!
we chart a sort of "blueprint" of the upcoming life. we get to choose what lessons we want or need to learn. key word here is choose, we choose. we understand that some life lessons are learned thru very difficult experiences - some that do seem effin ludicrous - unless you know what you were trying to learn from the experience. that can completely change your perspective about what is really to be gained from the experience. then add to that that so often once we get here, we get completely off track and never complete our desired course! it sure sounds like a crap shoot!

then there's karma. from the first time we incarnate in third density, we begin to amass karma - both good and bad. when we choose to treat other souls badly, we create a karmic situation that will require fixing. in order to do that, we will choose situations that will help us to understand how the soul we hurt felt, amoung other things. this is a very simple explantion of karma, and forgivness is always a part of the process - especially if you are the one who's been hurt.

b) you can choose a life of celebrity, wealth whatever - but when you are in spirit form, you make choices for much different reasons than you might think while here on earth. you have access to all of your other lives, and know the issues you need and want to work on. you might choose a life of fame to promote a cause, share your wealth, help millions. and you might forget those ideas as you live your life in the "limelight", and become greedy, self-centered or just dont do anything at all with the choice....but it's still a choice!

c) i truly don't know how to answer this one. but if you are on the service-to-self path, you might choose to incarnate into these groups - but i truly don't know...

d) this is really a two-part question. first part - i know that ra addresses the issue of those who are most likely to be "harvested" at this time have been given a "go to the front of the line" opportunity to incarnate at this time. i believe this is in the first book, but i don't have the book with me so i can't reference the page for you. second part - see answer in b.

e) you are looking at the "celebrity life thing" from your earth understanding, not your spiritual understanding. you don't earn those types of lives, you choose them - for your spiritual growth. again, weather or not you fulfill the choices you made for yourself is a risky business. if you can't remember why you chose something, you could easily be side-tracked by the material aspects of earth life.

f) you don't have to balance good karma with bad - it's the other way around. karma is met by choosing to experience situations that help you to understand the pain, suffering, abuse caused by you. if you learn from the situation - love, charity, forgiveness, kindness - then you have truly progressed in this life, and most importantly met your karma. (wiped it out)

sorry - didn't mean to write a novel, but this are issues that are really important to understand and i hope that i have helped. again, i really urge you to read the books by michael newton. he really has given us a huge amount of info on this subject.

also, i get a sense from your post that you are struggling with the situations in your life, and what is going on in the world today. i can only repeat what david has been telling us all along - don't be fearful, don't buy into the anger, know that light will prevail if we continue to remain on the path.

love & light
alloura

[Plokiikmol]

i think i went throught the hell i did, to understand and help others going through crap.

the same crap can fly at me now though and not hurt me at all, but because of it i can help someone else in the same situation who would otherwise not feel comfortable if i couldn't relate to them from first hand experience.

another example is, i hate smoking, but will smoke and drink around smokers and drinkers so they won't feel judged or condemned when i am around.

i tried for years to help people without the smoking and drinking, but they never felt comfortable around me as if i were suzie goody two shoes, or they would think i was a nark or something, so now i smoke around smokers, and don't smoke around non smokers etc.

can't wait to be back in california again where nobody smokes though, lol...i really don't like it at all.

but also, if i wasn't robbed, raped, scammed, abused, blah blah blah while growing up, then there are sooooooo many people i could never have helped.

now i have it pretty darn good though, so now things that seem "bad" to other people roll off me like water off a ducks back, and i hardly even feel it, just more observe, analyse, and act or do nothing, depending on the situation.

the universe really does love and protect you when you let it. we are loved beyond belief. one day you just realize how precious every single individual person, animal, mineral, cell, and atom is, and it is amaizing.

almost like we are really just playing a wayyyyyy high tech super cool virtual reality game, and in the end, we are allways fine and allways ok.

[BigMovies]

hi tifferella
sorry this is a bit off topic but can i ask whether you are in an abusive situation at the moment? are you physically safe? is there practical help that you need at the moment?

sorry if this sounds like prying but when you describe that you are experiencing a hell consiousness every moment, well i just wonder whether board conversations about karma are helpful at this time, and whether there is practical support that could be offered. worried about you from the tone of some of your posts. hope you are safe
lorna

[Peterli]

hi tifferella,

great post!!! by your questions, you are definately waking up. i have asked the same or similar questions myself. i have also experienced "hell consciousness" where nothing makes sense and the world appears excessively "dark". welcome to the challenges of being a "wanderer". this world does not make sense to me and never has. i try and try but to no avail, it is still a confusing place. i remember reading an article in the paper about a child molester who won an 8 million dollar jackpot. this one article threw me into a spiral of confusion. i remember thinking, where's karma when you need her? how is winning an 8 million dollar jackpot helping this man? the great cosmic joke, perhaps.

in my life, i have found when events (the world) seem confusing, dark, or chaotic, it helps me to remove myself (even if for a little while) from the situation (or negative thought patterns) and to refocus my thoughts on what is beautiful in the world and/or in my life. i have realized that the only thoughts i can control are my own. this is not always easy and i guess, part of the challenge living in 3d.

namaste,

cynlor

[bppstorr]

okay there are definitely victims in this earthly existence...by "victim" i am speaking of people who have had horrible atrocities and acts of hate bestowed on them from birth by, lets say, literally hundreds of people or events coming across their life's path. until he/she is finally brutally mutiliated and murdered at whatever age, or become so distorted that they commit murder and go to death-row, or die of aids from being gang-raped 3650 times (everyday for 10 years) in uganda (true story). or deemed mentally disabled and locked away forever by the state bc they are "gone" just defacate on themselves and ingest their waste permanently. all because lack of love, lack of life, and overwhelming torture of a certain earthly existence had literally created a victim. what "higher self" needs to be raped everyday for 10 years?? what "higher self" needs to become so mentally ill and "unconscious" that they would ingest their own waste? what person deserves a life that leads to such hell?

sorry but "pull yourself up my your bootstraps" doesnt apply to tortured/enslaved people or mentally ill/retarded. it's a no-can-do, can't be done. everyone wants to say "sure, be strong, its in you to help yourself"... but what about those who do not because they cannot? total failures? i think not. victims is more like it. or someone was given a mental illness in life so that they can, whatever, "learn compassion" or "overcome it"??? what if they don't??? they commit suicide over and over again in hundreds of incarnations?they come back for more and more torture??

i'd say to god or the higher self, "ease up old chap, let this one absorb into the light, they had enough, theyre ready to come home"

not just obstacles/catalysts. whole entire lives of hell. i am saying that earthly existence does create victims. if hundreds of people contribute to a life of torture for one person, then that person deserves to be called a "victim" and should not be blamed for being raped from infancy and mutilated to death. because their higher self "demanded" balance???

yea i believe everything is connected and its an in-breath/out-breath of the infinite creator, we all come from one and will go back to one... but its too far of a jump to say that lives of hell, torture, and mutilation are agreed/decided upon and orchestrated or allowed by our higher selves. this is like saying that the "loving christian god" would send his children to hell. there is just a new-age spin on it... now your "higher self" sends you to be tortured and mutilated for balance?? just bizarre

i mean could anyone say right now that its fine if someone breaks in your house and tortures and murders you because your higher self agreed upon this for balance in this incarnation? i don't think anyone is "okay" with that happening to you personally right now as your reading this?


yes obastacles can be impetus to growth, but what about these tortured lives. please step out from the comfort of your the overpriced internet service that enables you to read this, and picture someone being kept as a torture slave, to be starved, tortured and raped daily from infancy until death. what did that victim learn of this incarnation? they would say before they drown themselves in a nearby watering hole to avoid being raped/tortured at sunrise, "wow i was born into this world and i have seen hate terror and pain, i have not seen love, what is this "love" others speak of? my genitals have been removed and so i cannot procreate... my legs and arms have been severed so i cannot work to feed/house myself and without food i will die. i can read barely, but i cannot comprehend why a creator would create any such place where anyone would be mutilated, terrorized, and be separated completely from this "love" thing. i cannot "love" myself because i do not know what love is, i just exist, and apparently i existed to expereince torture." or would their higher self say "wow, now i know what it feels like to be mutilated and tortured, now i'm balanced, yay!"?? what good does it for an incarnation to feel what its like to mutilated, even if they killed someone in a past life. there is definitely enough murder and death stored in universal consciousness that should easily be tapped into if one (higher-self) needs to know what mutilation feels like....

can we be so passive and apathetic and say that the "higher selves" of these human incarnations have decided to experience balance such as the experience of a "clitorectomy" or being tortured and having all limbs cut off until death, burned at the stake, gas chamber, etc. because this certain "higher self" enforced, advocated, or performed clitorectomies in a past life? these things have happened in the physical universe. far worse but i keep it mild.

[Salliter]

i think that there are two distinct meanings of the word victimized.

the state of mind of an individual who believes they are being victimized is a low fear based frequency.

then if you are using it as an adjective instead of a noun then it is a descriptive word detached from emotion which is ok.

[preptarra]

interesting thread so far.

i remember reading in an edgar cayce quote that many of those who had worked hard to enslave the african americans were often reincarnated as african americans in order to help restore their sociaty and culture..

when we say something like 'victim' we get the unerring sense of helplessness and or powerlessness. what if in the last life, this person was one of those who victimized many people.. controlled, manipulated, and otherwise infringed on the free will of others. in order to understand the fullness of power, he would have to come back as something powerless.. why do we assume that all the nasty things that happen to people are 'bad'? or that all the good things that happen to people are 'good'? that is separation thinking.. if we are all one then both the victim and victimizer are one in the same. god cannot slap himself and be offended.. it is just one experience to him, both being slapped and slapping himself.


i'm sure the lessons to be learned go far beyond our meager limited understanding while under this veil. at the same time i can understand how hard it can be to accept a complex idea such as that every thing we experience we have 'chosen' on some level, either through our thinking currently, or some greater plan we have chosen before birth. but again, this all comes under the idea that 'bad' things are bad and 'good' things are good. this sort of polarized thinking is what creates the strong emotional pull when we experience pain or pleasure. in the end, i think it is important to understand that either one path or the other will ultimately take you to the same place, though through some very different catalysts. one may take longer than the other.

i always felt that when life was being it's rottenest that i felt the greatest amount of spiritual growth.. it forced me to get to the nitty gritty of my emotional makeup and make a choice, sometimes the hardest choice and it felt important. dire circumstances are possibly the greatest catalysts out there. so have the people who've chosen to go through those things 'victims' or rather 'adepts' on the fast track to transcendence? nothing may be exactly as it appears on this plane. just some food for thought.

[JonnLeejsp]

at the same time i can understand how hard it can be to accept a complex idea such as that every thing we experience we have 'chosen' on some level, either through our thinking currently, or some greater plan we have chosen before birth.

hi ewhaz,

to ellaborate on this idea check out ram dass on suffering:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=var7j-zlmyk

best,
stacy

[yharmon6614]

from what i've read, alot of authors have said that some souls incarnate without really considering how utterly tortuous and difficult the life would be...cause when you're in heaven, it doesn't seem to matter. they want to learn quickly but they completely overstep themselves and end up incarnating into extremely dire circumstances...but it has to be honoured out of freewill.
i can only hope this school will be phasing out those lessons though...but i'm certain that as more of us become aware, heal ourselves and our nations, that such pain and struggle is no longer needed. like walking away from anger and confusion, and relationships we've evolved beyond, and meeting up in the green fields to party in the monasteries/space ports

[soryalomop]

i remember a time when i was angry at 'god and the world' for the innumerable perceived injustices that appeared to exist.

i learned to view the world differently, and in time,
my feelings about it changed as well.

life as experienced in these 3d physical bodies can be intense, no doubt.
it's not always easy or fair.

otherwise, we would not take the time to experience life in them.

asking these kind of questions (why?) is the start of the path to
enlightenment and love. at least, it was for me.

even though we can't always remember, our choices have always
determined our existence and will continue to until we choose to
no longer decide for ourselves.

the illusion of not being in control is part of the challenge here.
you may not always have the luxury of control over your experiences
or surroundings. you always have the power to decide how
you will react to your experiences and surroundings.

keep asking questions. ponder the decision to react with love and wonder
instead of fear and anger.