[XinordiX]

hello all, i'm posting this to see if maybe i can find some useful information...

i know i'm not alone when it comes to this, but i find a profound and loving warmth in dark things. when i say dark things, i mean that which is more along the lines of nature - rainy and cloudy days, the way a cloudy night sky looks behind a blackened treeline, an "ominous" fog rolling across a shaded field, dark forests, etc. i also have a deep love for dark music, which includes many forms of obscure and underground metal (mostly coming from scandinavia and many parts of europe), and also orchestrated/classical forms of music which tend to have the sombre characteristics i'm talking about. poetry, art, and architecture (old castles, old european towns/cities, cathedrals, etc.) of a similar nature draw my attention as well.

i don't enjoy violence, gore, hatred, or any other malignant thing. i'm quite introverted for the most part, but i love interacting with people, teaching people, seeing people smile/happiness, feeling positive emotions emnating from a roomful of happy people, etc. in other words, i'm not what a lot of people would call a "goth", but i prefer the night and the moon to the day and the sun. i am far more motivated to do things on a gloomy day than i am on a sunny day.

i also understand the sun as a point in space where life's energy is pouring outward and enabling life to flourish... thus, making the sun out to be a profound and loving symbol of life in my mind.. yet the night is still more comforting to me.

basically, what i'm after here, is some explanation as to why this might be. i usually do quite well turning inward and finding my answers within, but this is something that i can't seem to figure out or give any credence to...

has anybody ever read, though about, or heard anything that deals with a benevalent love of dark things, even when spiritual enlightenment is the chosen path of the individual in question?

[denwerdinoss]

hmmm... jeez it could be so many different things. the first word that came to my mind as i was reading is the word "macabre". and i find that there is symbolism in everything especially what we are attracted too.

i have read in many places that the moon symbolizes intuition, depth, emotion and subtlety. and you may be attracted to the symbolism which most closely defines you.

the symbolism of the skull is often thought to be of evil, darkness and fear of death. but actually, and this is my own opinion that i have developed, it is a symbol of the veil and of eternal life. it is a symbol of the line we cross to the "other side" or home.

i am willing to bet that you are a deep, passionate person and you are very interested in anything having to do with the mystical or with the spirit.

but also, i wouldn't define fog or castles as being dark, maybe mysterious. maybe you are attracted to the mystery of life or the unknown. darkness in itself could be symbolized as "the great unknown". they are beautiful things in their own right. they are just a symbol of another aspect of ourselves. sounds like you are quite balanced and happy so i don't think you are using the color black as a way to express anger, guilt, pain, grief or saddness like many of the gothic kids do.

so i think to investigate the symbolism behind the things you are attracted to would result in you finding your personality very much described there.



or perhaps a past life in the celtic part of the world or scotland or england? where they have the moors, and foggy, mysterious castles?

[JonnLeejsp]

has anybody ever read, though about, or heard anything that deals with a benevalent love of dark things, even when spiritual enlightenment is the chosen path of the individual in question?

hi adam & foo,

in my own humble experience i can tell you that in order to find the truth that you have to look at both the light and the dark. and some people have related to me that the dark in this existence is actually the brightest light in the next realm casting a shadow in this realm.

when i relate my own experience i can tell you that i'm very attuned with the plutonic/scorpionic archetypes. this is related to an atunement i was born with (ie: the natal astrological birth chart) which i am not at liberty to discuss here as per forum rules. but, the dark has a lot to do with surrender. some people feel fearful when night falls, but if you are open to the possibilities of what arises from the void you are open to the gifts of the universe.

similarly, if you are only focused on "the light" in this realm you may not be open to "the light" on the other side because it may show up as a shadow here.

furthermore, that is why i often feel an uneasiness when people only express "love and light" because it only seems to encompass half of existence here on earth. and it feels like a forceful push rather than a humble yielding.

in "love and light" and "surrender and darkness",
stacy

[XinordiX]

thank you to all who replied to this thread. every response has been very very helpful, and i will come up with a much more in depth response of my own later on.

ds37ds: in what way do you feel that there is a negative greeting in this thread? indeed, the ideas floating around this thread have to with embracing darkness just as the light is so often embraced. after all, it is hardly possible to have light to embrace without the dark.

[JonnLeejsp]

there's a negative greeting on this thread.

well, the mods won't let me post what i really want to say. so i will simply quote myself.

"ra: the adept is one which has freed itself more and more from the constraints of the thoughts, opinions and bonds of other selves.

whether this is done for service to others or for service to self it is a necessary part of the awakening of the adept. this freedom is seen by those not free as what you would call evil or black. the magic is recognized; the nature is often not. (b4, 50)"

and a reminder that if you feel the urge to put yourself on a pedestal and judge others, this is always negative.

[espenijij]

hi adam of all,

your post was very interesting and quite synchronistic for me as i happened to be reading up on the sun and the moon that day. this paragraph was informative:

"just as our consciousness shifts in its relationship to things when it moves from the lunar astral to the solar astral or mental worlds: and again when the move is from the mental to the spiritual. these shifts can best be explained as going from object relationships [material] to subject relationships [i - thou], to direct relationships and finally identity relationships. on earth we view things as objects separate from us. in the lunar astral we experience them as objects, but with a relationship to them. in the solar astral, we experience a thing directly, that is we know it. in the spiritual realm, we are it."

perhaps your preference for the night and the moon is an indication of how you see yourself in relation to your otherselves and all that surrounds you.

in reference to embracing darkness and light, these are inseparable parts of the path each being a reference point for the other. we would not recognise or appreciate one without the other.what we choose to focus on at certain stages of development is part of our spiritual evolution. both are inherent parts or ourselves; being balanced continuously.

i also wonder if you have an artistic streak in you. many well known artists t are attracted to and inspired by the romance and intrigue of darkness and gloom. a great deal of 'avante garde' visual and performance art is drawn from this source.

finally, the ideas expressed in the thread have nothing to do with the "negative greeting." the energy made me feel quite nauseous and a liitle mentally confused for a couple of hours after the first time i read it. it's not the first time this has happened to me so i recognised what it was almost immediately.

love

ds

[espenijij]

hey astraya,

um, what can i say! a not so surprising and rather strong reaction for an adept freed from the thoughts, opinions and bonds of other selves, wouldn't you say?

quote:

"some people are fearful when night falls, but if you are open to the possibilities of what arises from the void, you are open to gifts of the universe."

i totally agree with you on this one when and if you hold enough light to enter the void without getting lost or your energy being overly infuenced by " ? degrees is equal to ?" if you know what i mean!

quote:

"when this is done for service to others or for service to self it is a necessary
part of the awakening of the adept. this freedom is seen by those not free as what you would call evil or dark. the magic is recognised; the nature is often not."

now this is such an interesting quote. it appears so straightforward but the "the magic is recognised; the nature is often not." is probably more complicated. it seems a little blurry imo and can be interpreted from varying angles and degrees. ever thought about it?

you can always pm me if you don't get what i'm saying or express any other opinions.


love

ds

[snislarne]

i'm a nocturnal person myself, i feel much more at ease in the dark, but that doesn't mean you can't spread love =)

[JonnLeejsp]

finally, the ideas expressed in the thread have nothing to do with the "negative greeting." the energy made me feel quite nauseous and a liitle mentally confused for a couple of hours after the first time i read it. it's not the first time this has happened to me so i recognised what it was almost immediately.

thank you for sharing what it feels like when you are confronted with your own shadow. please don't project on to me anymore :-)

in surrender and darkness,
stacy

[excholza]

hmmm.... seems like things are getting a little intense here.

i would like to offer an entirely different perspective which may be way out there in left field, but here goes:
adam of all, could your love for darkness and gloom be your response to veiled memories from the distant past when you may have been incarnated in a place that was physically dark and gloomy? perhaps you lived in a location that had little sunlight and much cloudy darkness.

this possibility could create in you the familiar comfort that you experience now when the same circumstances arise.

this was my first impression when you initially posted this topic, and i see that it hasn't been mentioned yet, so for whatever it's worth... just a thought....

namaste,
nancy

[TypeTeasiaDer]

oh my god... what a joy!

folks who understand and appreciate the need for the dark.

dark is defined in so many many "evil" ways... well, wiseness has already been posted in this thread, i shan't re-hash.

a personal favorite that i liked was:

or to put it another way, when you don't go along with the tribe because you are in touch with the natural law rather than man's law, the tribe wants to cast you out and might call you evil or dark. in fact, they project their dark side on to you and you have to have a thick skin not to take it personally.

it seems to me, what makes something "dark" is that you can't see. simplistic statement, however: at night in a deep forest... is it "dark" to the cat? i feel, similaraly, different people have eyes that can see to a different depth at times on different things. so because they can see more... they can align their steps with natural laws.

also, there are those who know an area so well... it is like how a blind person knows their own house or forest. they do not need the light to see because they know what is there. they can find their way quicker, easier and with less fuss then sighted men with their newly gathered flashlights struggling to move from room to room and place to place. (this particular analogy was given me by another).

nonetheless, i think it is beautiful to love the darkness... if it is loved and understood, i feel it will be only what god meant for it to be in its true essence and true purpose sanz the fear and judgement and later ensuing drama.

peace and love

darlyne

ps thanks for the comments on folks on wearing black... i don't usually wear black but i am sure and agree it should by no means be instantly assumed a color "bad" people wear.

[XinordiX]

i said i'd come up with a proper response, so here it is:

foosnik: i would say that intuition, depth, emotion and subtlety are all words that have been repeatedly used by others to describe me. i would agree, as far as a self-analysis can be thrown.

its also very cool that you mention the symbolism of the skull - i made no mention of this in my initial post, but i have always worn something with a skull on it. while people have pointed out the morbidity of it, i have always felt very playful/lively when adorned with a skull (bandanas, wristbands, shirts, etc.). i've never seen this as being sick or negative in any way.


astraya: you've made many points that bring a warmth to me. the idea that the shadows of this world are cast by the brightest light in the next makes more sense to me than you may have hoped for :-) this idea resonates very deeply with me. when night falls, and i'm in a place where artificial light is not being produced, i definitely feel as though there is a stronger presence of universal energy... that's the best way i can describe it, at least.

you are not alone when it comes to feeling somewhat uneasy when people only praise "love and light". to me, "love and darkness" means no less than "love and light." i do not believe in any traditional concept of hell, and thus, only believe evil to be in the mind of the beholder. darkness is no less a part of this world as light, and when true balance is found within the self, it is found in all things. for these reasons, the quote from the law of one that you provided means a lot to me. i've not read that one before, so thank you very much.


transiten: the quote and example that you provided illustrated a rather profound point.

what was more profound was the synchronicity that you had mentioned, because before reading it, i felt strengthened somehow by the black clothing that i had put on that morning. for some time, i thought that maybe i would be better off wearing light colors, as i had read many negative things about the color black, even though none of that information resonated with me in any positive way. i've since decided otherwise, and your message comforted me that much more. besides, as astraya said, black suits me much better :-)


ali quadir: your response spoke deeply to me. i've decided, early on, that my "overactive" empathy exists so that i can not only show people that i understand, but that i can let them feel that i understand. if i ever have a bad day, this strong sense of empathy can be nearly crippling, but i never wish it away. nor would i wish it on anyone else, of course. it is a beautiful thing, and something i tend to with love.

i was raised to be a musician and have been one for quite some time. if i can speak with any sort of confidence, i would say that i certainly do have an artistic streak, as my eyes see beauty in abundance.

as far as introversion is concerned - one thing that i do have trouble with is knowing what i should and shouldn't inform somebody of. i have intuitive understandings of things all the time and wonder whether or not it would be against the person in question's free will to inform them of these things. on the other hand, i sometimes think that i would not recieve these intuitive messages if i were not meant to deliver them. but as you said - sometimes these things take time, and sometimes you're wrong. from this, balance can be sought.


spiral of light: thank you very much for bringing this out into the open - everyday, i have visions of gloomy skies looking over beautiful vegitation in a forest that lays just beyond a very aesthetically pleasing house of old. these visuals have a wide variety, but are always the same. i've yet to be able to figure out whether these are memories, or a place created by my subconscience for the conscience to find comfort in. depending on how you look at it, both may be true :-) but i believe it to be one or the other (at least for starters)

as always, your first impression is your best bet when intuition is actively used. for this reason, i will further consider this possibilty. but granted that this idea is correct, the nocturnal characteristics of mine stand just the same.


aside from all of these words, i've developed many helpful concepts after reading all of your responses. thank you to all who replied and sent their love.

in return, i give you love and gratitude.

[Dvjkefdw]

ali quadir: your response spoke deeply to me. i've decided, early on, that my "overactive" empathy exists so that i can not only show people that i understand, but that i can let them feel that i understand. if i ever have a bad day, this strong sense of empathy can be nearly crippling, but i never wish it away. nor would i wish it on anyone else, of course. it is a beautiful thing, and something i tend to with love.

yes, it is awesome and yes it has it's downsides. i feel that it's not my responsibility to save the world. just the tiny part that i have control over. that means to me that sometimes people carry their negativity because it's their cross to bear.

if you're "non judgmental within reason" then openings arise where your opinion is asked for and it can be shown. if you're also non judgmental about what they do with your opinion then usually it has some effect small or big.

that's all we can do isn't it? but at least we're true to ourselves, honest to our fellow man and we're doing our part in improving the situation whatever it is. without making it worse by getting attached to outcomes in the process.

i was raised to be a musician and have been one for quite some time. if i can speak with any sort of confidence, i would say that i certainly do have an artistic streak, as my eyes see beauty in abundance.

good to hear, it's a gift, enjoy it.

as far as introversion is concerned - one thing that i do have trouble with is knowing what i should and shouldn't inform somebody of. when i'm not personally involved i usually only give my opinion when asked. when i am involved i give my opinion of a problem in three situations as they arise. then only when asked. when i am emotionally involved i give opinions in three situations and if that does not change things i extract myself from the situation. if i cannot change it then there's no point in being a victim there.

i have intuitive understandings of things all the time and wonder whether or not it would be against the person in question's free will to inform them of these things. on the other hand, i sometimes think that i would not recieve these intuitive messages if i were not meant to deliver them. but as you said - sometimes these things take time, and sometimes you're wrong. from this, balance can be sought. if you don't see them as messages but as perceptions. your sixth sight, not divine guidance. then it becomes easier to answer that question. register what you see, and act on it as your situation asks for. divine guidance is when you just know how to handle situations.

the persons free will contains their freedom to reject your information. don't worry too much if your words would break their free will. i think it's safe to assume you cannot do that. i've seen people just blindly ignore the whole possibility it's there they're slightly annoyed by it but they otherwise don't seem to register it. sometimes it just does not click.

you have the ability within to know what is right and what is wrong. you're using it when you do what you enjoy in harmony with your surroundings.

[denwerdinoss]

yeah, i have a large skull candle that sits prominently on my computer desk. i love it and when i look at it i don't think of morbidness but of comfort in my knowledge of eternal life and of an infinitely loving god that we are all a part of. it is a symbol of my quest for communion with the creator and with the all there is.

i really dug your post and i think we have very similar wave lengths.

foo

[Vodonaeva]

hello adam, astraya and foo!
i'm a very plutonic scorpio too,

with a strong mercury, like to joke and make rhymes, when i'm not deadly serious...

what about this one about a guy looking for lost keys adressed by a friend:

-where did you loose them?
-over there, pointing at a dark area in the corner. -
-ok, so why are you searching here?
-it's brighter here under the street lamp...

...or the famous statement by cg jung that enlightenment is not to be found by staring at the light but confronting one's shadow.

interesting sync is that i'm wearing black clothes for the first time in my life. i always preferred offwhite, and suddenly i don't look pale anymore and feel safe. black can have the double potential of being dampening or protecting.

suppose i've been working so much with my shadow that i don't have to compensate by always wearing white (balck or white, scorpio-theme)and the protective aspect is now working instead of adding to my depressive tendencies that i can master better than before.

liliane transiten

[denwerdinoss]

hi adam & foo,

in my own humble experience i can tell you that in order to find the truth that you have to look at both the light and the dark. and some people have related to me that the dark in this existence is actually the brightest light in the next realm casting a shadow in this realm.

when i relate my own experience i can tell you that i'm very attuned with the plutonic/scorpionic archetypes. this is related to an atunement i was born with (ie: the natal astrological birth chart) which i am not at liberty to discuss here as per forum rules. but, the dark has a lot to do with surrender. some people feel fearful when night falls, but if you are open to the possibilities of what arises from the void you are open to the gifts of the universe.

similarly, if you are only focused on "the light" in this realm you may not be open to "the light" on the other side because it may show up as a shadow here.

furthermore, that is why i often feel an uneasiness when people only express "love and light" because it only seems to encompass half of existence here on earth. and it feels like a forceful push rather than a humble yielding.

in "love and light" and "surrender and darkness",
stacy

wow, i have never heard that before. that darkness here is the shadow being cast from the next realm. i like that.

i agree with you totally. it is about releasing the fear of it and embracing it. or "surrender" like you said. and, i think, what you are saying is that darkness is not necessarily evil. it just is what it is and it is powerful in its on right. it only becomes evil when people fear it.

this whole thread kind of synchronizes with my thought processes of late.

thank you.

...or the famous statement by cg jung that enlightenment is not to be found by staring at the light but confronting one's shadow.

liliane transiten

ooooo... i like that one! i am definitely going to remember that one. thank you, transiten!

[JonnLeejsp]

hello all, nice for you to bring your dark-wisdom to us liliane!

i just wanted to add a part i like from the law of one:

"ra: the adept is one which has freed itself more and more from the constraints of the thoughts, opinions and bonds of other selves.

whether this is done for service to others or for service to self it is a necessary part of the awakening of the adept. this freedom is seen by those not free as what you would call evil or black. the magic is recognized; the nature is often not. (b4, 50)"

or to put it another way, when you don't go along with the tribe because you are in touch with the natural law rather than man's law, the tribe wants to cast you out and might call you evil or dark. in fact, they project their dark side on to you and you have to have a thick skin not to take it personally.

i've worn black clothes since i was a teenager. black clothes are just more practical but also they do send a clear message. plus, i look good in black .

hugs,
stacy

[Stetbrate]

hello all, nice for you to bring your dark-wisdom to us liliane!

i just wanted to add a part i like from the law of one:

"ra: the adept is one which has freed itself more and more from the constraints of the thoughts, opinions and bonds of other selves.

whether this is done for service to others or for service to self it is a necessary part of the awakening of the adept. this freedom is seen by those not free as what you would call evil or black. the magic is recognized; the nature is often not. (b4, 50)"

or to put it another way, when you don't go along with the tribe because you are in touch with the natural law rather than man's law, the tribe wants to cast you out and might call you evil or dark. in fact, they project their dark side on to you and you have to have a thick skin not to take it personally.

i've worn black clothes since i was a teenager. black clothes are just more practical but also they do send a clear message. plus, i look good in black .

hugs,
stacy

love it. thanks. this is exactly what i was thinking. we must free ourselves of the usual taught opnions. we must not continue to filter our thoughts through the pre-determined paradigms.

i always hear people complain about the rain and the overcast days. and i counter their whining with, "i love the rain!" because i do. its cleansing, it energizes me. i dont care if im supposed to not like it. neither should you about the things that bring you solace.

[Dvjkefdw]

personally i think it's beautiful. almost sacred. maybe you are a healer?

there is much suffering in this world. much pain. when you enter there with your feelings of loving warmth. can i say calm compassion? what you're doing is combining compassion and pain in an alchemy that leads to forgiveness and a letting go. when a heart breaks in empathy and not in trauma a lot of good things happen. it is an acknowledgment that says i understand, and i see you.

it could be this in general as a service to mankind. it could be more particular. someone in your family who suffered and whom you care for even if you may not have met. for example someone who died before you were born. it could be quite specific you could be working on some of your own pain.

in a way when we come here we pick up from where our ancestors (in the broadest sense) left off. what is important to remember is that you are free and in some way you're doing this because you on some level choose to do this. i don't get the feeling you're uncomfortable with it but if you were it's okay to take a break.

one final word about introversion, just remember that everyone is entitled to your opinion. it's the best bit of advice i was given in my life. in the long run truth stands. sometimes you just have to wait, and sometimes you were wrong, lesson learned

[egexgfczc]

what a beautiful thread!!

adam of all when i read your blog i thought "this is exactly how i've felt all my life!" i never analyzed it, i just enjoyed it because dark and gloomy made me feel warm & cozy! (i know that sounds bizarre, but it's true!)

ali quadir - what you wrote was beautiful and really touched my heart. indeed, that may be what a healer is all about. as i read it, i felt as if a piece of my puzzle fell into place.

black is one of my favorite colors...

love & light / surrender & darkness - ying & yang... isn't balance what we are seeking in all things?...

learning to see the light and the dark in ourselves and accept them both.

working towards an understanding of ourselves so that we might be better able to understand, accept and love others? really being able to serve them at a level that truly understands what they need?

l&l/s&d
alloura