[Dyslermergerb]

what do you guys/ladies think?

the venus project presents a bold, new direction for humanity that entails nothing less than the total redesign of our culture. there are many people today who are concerned with the serious problems that face our modern society: unemployment, violent crime, replacement of humans by technology, over-population and a decline in the earth's ecosystems. as you will see, the venus project is dedicated to confronting all of these problems by actively engaging in the research, development, and application of workable solutions. through the use of innovative approaches to social awareness, educational incentives, and the consistent application of the best that science and technology can offer directly to the social system, the venus project offers a comprehensive plan for social reclamation in which human beings, technology, and nature will be able to coexist in a long-term, sustainable state of dynamic equilibrium. http://www.thevenusproject.com/index.html

[M1zdL0hh]

the venus project is a great idea. i followed up on it after the interview with jacques fresco in the brand-new [please pm for title], which i suggest you all go watch, as it is much more accessible/positive/topical than the first one. i really like the idea of a resource-based economy, and am looking forward to checking out his book, the best that money can't buy. i think with the financial instability we're seeing, people will be willing to try out complementary community currencies with demurrage (negative interest) and we'll be seeing a lot of success with that.

article on an austrian town during the great depression struck with 33% unemployment using a cc with demurrage to finish tons of city social projects and have 100% employment until shut down by the central bank
http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php...105-000002.htm

one author's look at a possible global cc
http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/newmoney.php

[mrPronmaker]

i think it's really good and the fact that makes an option for what are we living now gives us the chance for could aspire to an exit to the system (this system) who are intrincicaly about "something like slavery" (something because the rulers don't have to maintain the slaves, the slaves have to maintain themselves! )

i don't like the non-religious part of the project (no philosophy lives without a good religion backing it, just ask -if you were able- the ancient greeks!) but is an option at least, a way better option.


cheers!

[Dyslermergerb]

the venus project is a great idea. i followed up on it after the interview with jacques fresco in the brand-new [please pm for title], which i suggest you all go watch, as it is much more accessible/positive/topical than the first one. i really like the idea of a resource-based economy, and am looking forward to checking out his book, the best that money can't buy. i think with the financial instability we're seeing, people will be willing to try out complementary community currencies with demurrage (negative interest) and we'll be seeing a lot of success with that.

article on an austrian town during the great depression struck with 33% unemployment using a cc with demurrage to finish tons of city social projects and have 100% employment until shut down by the central bank
http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php...105-000002.htm

one author's look at a possible global cc
http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/newmoney.php

that movie you were talking about is exactly where i got it from. i don't fully understand what he means by an economy based on resources and not money. i mean, how exactly do you do that?

@ ashatav:

i think you are confusing religion with spirituality as they are very different. am i wrong?

[Stetbrate]

i think its a wonderful idea, but society as it is would have to start at a complete ground zero and rebuild all over again to create the ideals that this presents. i dont think we could pull of having half of the world doing it one way and the other half continuing on how they are.

i mean, lets face it, people are typically very resistant to, and afraid of change. it would take a huge topple of the societal structures as they stand now to be able to build such a utopian lifestyle.

then again, may that huge topple is on its way and people at that point may be sick of the fear and the way we work sooo hard for the stuff thats already free and all the rest...i think anyone would agree with the statement that "we were not meant to live this way." working and toiling and having to hustle and bustle around, not getting to spend time with the people we really want to or doing the things we really want to.

it sounds like a beautiful idea, and i am all for it, it just seems very far off and we would be in for some major happenings to get to the point where our planet could fully implement this lifestyle...

[gardenerextraordinaire]

sperry, the man that discovered the specialization of the left and right brain said the following when giving his nobel prize speech in the 1980's, "our social values are determined by what we believe the nature of consciousness to be.... whether consciousness is bound to the brain and can die, if it is universal, reincarnated or whatever......" his thinking is actually an understatement. the contents of our entire mental map are determined, consciously or unconsciously by how we perceive the nature of consciousness to be. this includes our perceptions of: mission, identity, values, abilities, possibilities, boundaries, responsibilities, morals, behavior and how we relate to our selves', each other and the rest of the universe.

everybody here that has experienced the difference between a strong childhood belief/religion and a spiritual awakening has felt this difference it makes in our mental maps.

this is a prime question that affects personality and behavior. any project that attempts to mold mankind into any attitude, environment, political direction etc. will fail as long as the question of consciousness is not properly addressed.

an example of this is how communism failed when it was forced on to people of differing beliefs. the same idea actually could work well with spiritually awakened and positive polarized people - sharing instead of fighting each other.

the reason there is so much social chaos in the world today is because of the disconnect between religious beliefs and scientific attitudes which all are more or less wrong.

the venus project, even though it is a good idea, cannot work in a 3d world full of duality and diverse understandings of consciousness. its like putting the carriage before the horse. it is a systemic mistake.

[M1zdL0hh]

well the real gem of knowledge i gleaned from [that excellent documentary - do we really have to censor the proper names of things? seems silly to me...] is that in our current economy, profit is in direct conflict with efficiency, sustainability and abundance. i had discovered this in the past few years, but was unable to put it so beautifully.

the way i understand a resource-based economy is that instead of money having inherent value we transfer this to resources. thus, anything that degrades or destroys the resource in essence destroys its value - not good. in this perspective, a "cradle-to-cradle" approach for resources means that you receive maximum (really - approaching infinite) value out of it by ensuring the quality of the resource over an indefinite amount of time. first off, this ensures that sustainability is prioritized - leaving the resource (even when it's used), in a usable form for our descendants (and if possible, improving its quality!). sustainability is inextricably linked to efficiency and abundance, which can only increase in a society that is sworn to protect the value of earth's natural gifts to mankind.

the great thing about complementary currencies is that they present us with a much better option for a smooth transition to a resource-based economy. the key to this system is in the concept of demurrage, which effectively translates into negative interest. instead of people that hoard money *cough*monstrousinternationalbanks*cough* being rewarded, money actually devalues the longer it is held onto. one relative example is that rather than it being beneficial for you to be holding $1000, in this system it would be much better for you to have 10 people owe you $100 (which won't devalue), or just spending it on whatever and borrowing if you need to. with that money you've spent or lent, you've created business and the initial investment snowballs from there. with everyone spending and lending in this way, business is a natural by-product of having money, instead of being stifled by the 'need' to hold onto it so preciously (and every investment thus becomes collective, rather than needing to limit investments to yourself/your company). it becomes plain to see that this model transitions much easier than our current practice, since the money can actually lend its own value on resources and ideas like sustainability, efficiency, and abundance.

[Dyslermergerb]

sperry, the man that discovered the specialization of the left and right brain said the following when giving his nobel prize speech in the 1980's, "our social values are determined by what we believe the nature of consciousness to be.... whether consciousness is bound to the brain and can die, if it is universal, reincarnated or whatever......" his thinking is actually an understatement. the contents of our entire mental map are determined, consciously or unconsciously by how we perceive the nature of consciousness to be. this includes our perceptions of: mission, identity, values, abilities, possibilities, boundaries, responsibilities, morals, behavior and how we relate to our selves', each other and the rest of the universe.

everybody here that has experienced the difference between a strong childhood belief/religion and a spiritual awakening has felt this difference it makes in our mental maps.

this is a prime question that affects personality and behavior. any project that attempts to mold mankind into any attitude, environment, political direction etc. will fail as long as the question of consciousness is not properly addressed.

an example of this is how communism failed when it was forced on to people of differing beliefs. the same idea actually could work well with spiritually awakened and positive polarized people - sharing instead of fighting each other.

the reason there is so much social chaos in the world today is because of the disconnect between religious beliefs and scientific attitudes which all are more or less wrong.

the venus project, even though it is a good idea, cannot work in a 3d world full of duality and diverse understandings of consciousness. its like putting the carriage before the horse. it is a systemic mistake.

i think jacques addresses exactly what you are talking about when he talks about "establishment vs. society". he says the very nature of being part of an "establishment" is inherently flawed in that it tries to conserve the established system and it doesn't allow for growth and change. a healthy society would be allowed to grow, change and evolve as well as people's individual evolution would be encouraged. because it is the only healthy way to be. he says this will be a part of his vision.

so he is not forcing anyone to do anything at all.

well the real gem of knowledge i gleaned from [that excellent documentary - do we really have to censor the proper names of things? seems silly to me...] is that in our current economy, profit is in direct conflict with efficiency, sustainability and abundance. i had discovered this in the past few years, but was unable to put it so beautifully.

the way i understand a resource-based economy is that instead of money having inherent value we transfer this to resources. thus, anything that degrades or destroys the resource in essence destroys its value - not good. in this perspective, a "cradle-to-cradle" approach for resources means that you receive maximum (really - approaching infinite) value out of it by ensuring the quality of the resource over an indefinite amount of time. first off, this ensures that sustainability is prioritized - leaving the resource (even when it's used), in a usable form for our descendants (and if possible, improving its quality!). sustainability is inextricably linked to efficiency and abundance, which can only increase in a society that is sworn to protect the value of earth's natural gifts to mankind.

the great thing about complementary currencies is that they present us with a much better option for a smooth transition to a resource-based economy. the key to this system is in the concept of demurrage, which effectively translates into negative interest. instead of people that hoard money *cough*monstrousinternationalbanks*cough* being rewarded, money actually devalues the longer it is held onto. one relative example is that rather than it being beneficial for you to be holding $1000, in this system it would be much better for you to have 10 people owe you $100 (which won't devalue), or just spending it on whatever and borrowing if you need to. with that money you've spent or lent, you've created business and the initial investment snowballs from there. with everyone spending and lending in this way, business is a natural by-product of having money, instead of being stifled by the 'need' to hold onto it so preciously (and every investment thus becomes collective, rather than needing to limit investments to yourself/your company). it becomes plain to see that this model transitions much easier than our current practice, since the money can actually lend its own value on resources and ideas like sustainability, efficiency, and abundance.

that "monstrousinternationalbanks" comment was pretty funny, i must say. :d ok, i do understand what you are saying about the concept of demmurage and that your money devalues the longer you hold on to it so you are better off putting that money to work. but i still don't get how an economy can be based solely off of resources. i mean, how does that work? like a barter system? i understand that in jacques' vision there will be very little work to do because of the advancement of technology. so will people actually earn anything for the little work that needs to be done? will people simply take turns doing the work and no one actually earns anything? everything would simply be available so people will be free to follow their hearts' desires? i suppose the work will just be divvied up among people equally.

[maysubers]

in my opinion, the venus project rocks.

so long as the power wasn't centralized, but instead belonging to small groups, or the individual....and there were to be plenty of focus on the expanding of spiritual consciousness....and a respect for all life. if we start by respecting life in the macrocosm, it will filter through to the microcosm.

i would like to see an end to all animal experiments; we can progress better without them anyway.

and maybe gradually evolve towards a vegetarian diet (with plenty of variation, which would ensure good health). obviously this wouldn't happen overnight, but if we start with spiritual evolution (practicing non judgmentality and respect for everyone), then i feel it could happen eventually. we can do away with the abomination of factory farms and start respecting our food, by thanking and praying for the animal's souls.

so long as respect toward all life became an intrinsic part of a societies values, corruption would surely be kept at bay.

that's how i feel.

[freevideoandoicsI]

i'm with kassandra as far as thinking it's not going to be so simple or so quick for the changes to take place. and there's a danger of setting up "how things will be" in that things go as they go, and never according to plan. of course we all want that utopia, i've been dreaming about it since i was a child, but the process needs to take place in it's own time and way.

the important thing is to see things as always getting better, as the spiral going up instead of down, and i think that's how it is. and to participate in that evolution in a positive way to the best of one's ability.

i'm happy to see the chaos that is preceeding the change. it takes something big to shake people out of their sleep. just looking at my own tendencies, i don't normally make the positive change until i'm up against the wall and have no choice. you could say it's human nature or whatever. i see everything as being exactly as it should be, the future actually looks bright, and i'm glad david is there to be a signpost.

[rxnixoncom]

the venus project? hmmm, perhaps when the science of spirituality becomes our politics.