[Pataacculako]

ok, now this is something that i have been wondering about. people at work have been telling me (off and on) "you need to make so and so do this or do that." my response is always "i dont like telling people what to do. plus, i cant make anyone do anything. people do what they want to do." now, i know that there are people who enjoy telling people what to do, and if your job as a boss is telling people what to do, not that i am a boss or anything, then that conflicts with free will, doesnt it? seems to me that they are infringing on ones free will. i guess this is coming from a "work" perspective. i am sure all of this is a part of the law of confusion and where we have things to learn. i guess, i was mainly looking for some kind of feedback ... what do you guys/gals think about this?

[kilibry]

just because you're giving people orders doesn't mean you have to be a jerk about it. if you're in charge of people, though, you're going to have to get comfortable with the idea of delegating responsibility - or else whoever's in charge of you will start looking for somebody who can do the job.

get used to the phrase "i need."

instead of "do this" and "do that," say, "bob, i need you to do such and such by so and so or else accounting will tear me a new colonic aperture."

make sure that they know that they are keeping you out of trouble by doing what you tell them. that saves alot of energy and maintains a more harmonious organization. foster the feeling of being a team, protecting each other against the harsh, merciless realities of life.

then take everybody out for drinks once a month.

[joOEMcheapSOFTWARE]

hello,

i would say definitely try to up the sense of teamwork in your environment if possible. other than that, i would say that asking would be the key. i work in a research institution with a good number of people. my section manager has his hands full with coordinating different departments and different people within the departments themselves, but he hardly ever directly tells someone to do something, he usually just asks and it works.

by asking, it saves you the potential infringement on anothers free will because as you said, people will do what they want to do, so you could see it more as offering them a path of choice. really, it is not you who is offering the choice -they filled out an application, made the choice to go through an interview, made the choice to get up, get dressed, and go to work today and every other day and this is the next choice that unfolds in that series.

in my experience asking someone to do something and telling them are a world apart and usually they are inclined to consider it more if asked. so, just ask. if they decline, then they make they choice which leads to them finding new employment.

now that i've written this, i guess i better get back to work.............

[Creva4k]

i think from a law of one perspective, there is no such thing as legitimate authority. in other words, you're correct: you cannot tell another person what to do.

however, nobody is forced to work under you. they can quit anytime (i hope!). therefore, at any given moment, they have the free will to disobey you and relinquish their employment. free will doesn't mean free of consequences.

now, mind you, i don't think employment is a matter of complete free will - the deck is stacked in our society so that we still have this quasi-fedual master/worker relationship, and the options available to people are constrained from what they would be in a truly "free market". in other words, there's a real, historical, non-arbitrary reason that most people work for somebody else and not themselves. and this doesn't mean that you have to be mean about being the boss.

but it is proper to let people know that if they have entered into a contract with you, such as an employment agreement, you have expectations of them. what they do with those expectations is up to them, and you have to do what's best for you. it's a lie to say it isn't personal, but you can at least be honest - that's really all you can ask of anybody and that anybody can ask of you. none of us are really "in charge", especially in situations of working for somebody else, where you rent your body and mind in exchange for money.

managers especially are in a tight spot because the whole philosophy of "human resources" is to treat human beings like fungible units of labor in the organization rather than as holistic entities with free will. plus the directives and priorities that come down from above for you to relay to your "underlings" are so often incoherent, stupid, or evil. so just understand that asking people to do things, and getting paid more because of it, also entails being honest and forthright with your bosses, and making sure you don't ask people to do things that you think are wrong or unreasonable. we all know the dilbert boss stereotype who takes maximum credit and dumps as much as possible on his underlings - don't be that guy!

of course, this is an ideal, and as long as you work for the man you will feel significant pressure to submit to an agenda that is alien to your free will. there are lots of opportunities for catalyst there!

incidentally, i'm working on an essay and presentation for the upcoming l/l research homecoming event that looks at the concept of authority (as well as other issues of political economy) from a law of one perspective. i'll post the link when i have something to post.

[rxnixoncom]

i've been a chef for over 25 years now and this issue has been strong for me throughout the experience. i have found that at times, to properly serve the whole, i have had to be incredibly self-serving. i am very good at what i do, and am well capable of seeing the "bigger picture" of how a restaurant runs efficiently. to make that a reality, i either have to convey the bigger picture to others in a way they grab the ball themselves, or simply tell them what they need to do to fulfill their part in the whole. and as always in any business, there are those who never get it and can barely do what they are told. then i might have to ride their butts or can them. at that point, i am effecting the outcome of a person's life, taking away their income, potentially increasing their difficulty. seemingly usurping their free will.

and yet, by that act, the rest of the crew and the restaurant itself returns to a smoother running. another evolving being moves into the opportunity of the space created. perhaps even the individual who was let go might come to say "yeah, i needed that, that was a good thing for me, i needed the change."

but it all serves the whole. and everyone who steps into a job, for whatever reason, is agreeing to be part of that whole, with its own funky and particular orderings.

so, telling my staff what to do and when to do it is self-serving in that it makes my job easier and i get it my way, but it also is what makes the gig run smooth and profitable for all. sts or sto?!

here's the kicker - you can't usurp anyone else's free will. no matter the subtlety or force displayed by one who would do such a thing, the other in the matter uses their free-will to either walk away, or to continue their current education.

be fair, reasonable, and firm, acting out of light and love as best possible, allowing all to know that what is being done is to serve the whole that all present in free-will have chosen to participate in.

[Pataacculako]

thank you all for your responses. pretty much, as you all have posted, is how i felt about the situation. as i stated, im not a boss, but i am in a position to "train" others on how to perform our particualr job safely and the ins and outs of the job ... even though i myself have only been here approx 7 months (a fairly new person trying to train others on a job that i never got proper training on ... hahaha). but ya, i understand where you guys are coming from. i'm not pushy or anything. in fact, i usually shrug my shoulders and say "what-ever". i dont really ask for help unless it is needed to do something safey, and i dont make anyone follow me to learn anything. if they want to learn, they will ask questions and follow me to whatever calls come up. anyway, thanks again for your input. ^.^

[Creva4k]

but from a purely theoretical standpoint, there is no subjugation of free will that occurs if you were to just bark orders at people. true; but this may give you catalyst, and it's important to realize whether your intention is to violate another's free will by exerting pressure on them. that doesn't mean it's wrong or right to do so; it means it's an opportunity for reflection and balancing.

unfortunately, most managers follow a set of rigid rules because employees are viewed as resources of labor, not people.

[StitsVobsaith]

true; but this may give you catalyst, and it's important to realize whether your intention is to violate another's free will by exerting pressure on them. that doesn't mean it's wrong or right to do so; it means it's an opportunity for reflection and balancing.

i'm not quite sure that it would be anybody's intention to violate another's free will, and if it were i believe they would find it to be a quite impossible task.

unfortunately, most managers follow a set of rigid rules because employees are viewed as resources of labor, not people.

true; and realize that most employees view managers, executives, investors, and shareholders in a similar regard. they're just there to provide a paycheck.

[Lapsiks]

do we have free will at work to do as we please? isn't the will free to accept or not accept the responsibilities and duties regarding that job? doesn't each worker have responsibilities to the company and the other workers as well as the customers?

it seems like free will in this situation is to choose to do a great job, have respect for coworkers, and put out a great product to the best of your ability. one can also choose to do a half-hearted job and let his coworkers pick up the slack for him, but there should be some consequences and some accountability.

[Creva4k]

i'm not quite sure that it would be anybody's intention to violate another's free will, and if it were i believe they would find it to be a quite impossible task. well, when people talk about violating free will, they really mean disrespecting another's autonomy. the idea being that another has a different idea of what it means to realize the creator than you do, and you put pressure on them to realize your preferred outcome. it's not that you're right and they're wrong or vice versa so much as you have acted towards a part of the creator in a way that didn't respect it, so you have created a distortion within yourself / the creator.

which is fine - catalyst is all about distortion. my point is not to never give orders, but to understand the spiritual implications.

[StitsVobsaith]

there are some good suggestions here on how to influence people to do what you would like them to do in a more harmonious manner. but from a purely theoretical standpoint, there is no subjugation of free will that occurs if you were to just bark orders at people. they are still free to follow them or not. it's not like you are putting a gun to their heads. and even if you were, they are still free to follow the order, or not. you cannot violate the universal law of free will. . that's why it is a universal law. universal laws are not like material laws, which can easily be broken, and thus require "enforcement" to ensure that they are followed. sts forces do not act in violation of free will; they just manipulate the circumstances to make it appear as if those who they are attempting to influence have no other choice. in a work situation, you can consciously uphold free will by reminding your coworkers that performing certain tasks that they would rather not do is part of a job description that they willingly agreed to when they took the job, and that failure to perform said tasks in a timely manner is likely to result in a consequence that they probably would not prefer, such as losing their job. sometimes a situation calls for treating a person like a child due to the fact that they are acting as one. this doesn't mean being disrespectful or condescending, but keep in mind what happens when parents raise their children with a philosophy of "i can't control them; they are going to do whatever they want anyway." this almost always results in little brats who have no respect for the fact that they are sharing this reality with other beings whose wishes and desires are just as important as their own. remember, most people are here in 3rd density specifically because they are in need of solid boundaries in order to provide a catalyst for their spiritual growth. somewhat inconveniently for the rest of us, these same people in a work situation often respond best to simply being told what to do. many even prefer it. being creative about how you do that is not for their benefit, it is for your own.