[d1Bc25UP]

i was reading the thread above me...or not it might be below me lol about healing within...and i came across david ickes website....and i was browsing skimming through things because i was tired....but i found something funny a reptile race of creatures who have controlled mankind for thousands of years? and they can shape shift? this sounds like a movie from hollywood....this is just to far out....anyone have any thoughts or opinions about this maybe even david? i heard of this before on the internet and in this book i am about to read behold a pale horse

[estelle]

hello all,

we don't normally release mr. icke's information, as he does tend to create an atmosphere of fear with many of his articles. the above url was released because this was not one of those fearful writings. it is for this reason that most channelers are not highlighted in this forum.

i know alot of people get off by experiencing this fear high-it's just like watching a great horror movie (why do we do it? because it gives us a rush. but, we can go to any sci-fi forum on the net to do this, so it is not normally inclusive on dc forum, which prefers to focus on positive concepts. we do have a few threads we have allowed fear base here because some people do need to talk about this fear. this gives us an outlet to talk thru our fear and release it, which is important for humans. if you can't verbalize it, then you can't identify it and fix it. it's just the way we are as social creatures. chris

[shashaffff]

by fiz on the benjamin fulford thread:

remaining intentionally open in cognitive uncertainty permits all possibilities their potential reality. cognitive uncertainty about reality is the mind's analogue to being ontologically open to emerging reality at the core.

standing in cognitive uncertainty takes work! so much so that i would so much prefer to have a story to believe....

but to believe prematurely information that has no evidence is to be knowingly immature in myself, and willing to sacrifice my sacrosanct free-will for a good story in its place. this level of subtle relinquishment of sovereignty at the level of information-reception is worth guarding against with sharpened awareness.

i would like to think that this way of reading current events -- vigilantly holding them in uncertainty as they continue to emerge and unfold -- may also be a positive way of participating in them, one that might maximize being open, and that this potent quality of being -- however cognitively uncertain it otherwise must be -- is itself a communicative, positive contribution in itself. fiz wrote this so eloquently, and this "way o' thinkin" can be applied everywhere with everything. i choose to remain open-minded on topics such as this, however, the fear message implied by "reptilian overlords" does not resonate with me; therefore, i choose not to dwell on nonsense like this that is out there. is it true? i don't know. is it false? i don't know. i place it in a realm of possibility that has its own place in my mind.

what else have i placed there? well, most anything that has a fear-basis. i believe it is important to analyze new information with an open mind and cross-check it with other information. if it fits, then i may look deeper. if not, i pass it aside and place it in the aforementioned realm of possibility.

the main difference being, information that does resonate, does "click" - i choose to focus on. most of this information can be connected to piece together my perception of reality, my individual interpretation of truth. this interpretation is constantly changing with new information, new experiences, but is being refined, sharpened.

so, if i may offer some advice - ask yourself these questions,

* * "who am i?"

* * "am i an instrument of love; a positive force in the evolution of spirit, growth of the universe?"

* * "if i could create the future, what would it be like?"

these are just a few of the questions we all may encounter on our journey. my reason for presenting them is that we can "link" information we uncover to these questions and others. so, in closing, the idea of reptilian overlords does not fit in the positive, loving universe that i choose to see, believe, create... i'm not a blind fool, there is evil out there. but, i fear it not. all of the members of this forum, and anyone dedicated to lightwork and the evolution of oneness has the power to master their fear and overcome it. each of us is very powerful, more so than we could ever imagine. so much so, that i do believe if we were to focus on fear and doomsday, then that is what the future will bring. fortunately, this isn't the case. :d

good luck in sorting through the information and formulating the answers for yourself. this forum is a great place to assist you, but ultimately, you define your own reality, as do each of us. :d

art

[Nundduedola]

..but, i fear it not.... thanks for that suggestion.
the mention of the reptilian symbolism reminded me of the reptilian brain stem, once upon a time. it was an idea that the reptilian brain stem within the brain governs the fight or flight response, which seems related to a low consciousness state of being. so by metaphor the suggestion of reptilians may relate to people who live predominantly in this mode of thinking. part of this thought stream, once upon a time, related to maslow's triangle with a suggestion that so many of the mutant psychologists seem to design media and advertising in ways which may subconsciously influence behaviors...

[Dxwlxqvg]

ive heard lots of people channel about reptilians. some say they are synthetic (robots), some that they shape shift. ive heard them called the annuki (sp?). a few negative polarity aliens makes sense, in the dimensional veiw theres a few negative polarity jobs to do.

[Wheegiabe]

trying to pack an aeon of history into the few years left could be a substantial distraction, albeit an interesting one.

i forgot as well as dismissed a lot of negatives categories of esoteric data until recently, as i was talking to a younger friend about some basics like the energy field, someone who i perceive to be a negative entity brought up the 'annunaki' although i believe there is a [t] in there somewhere.

i could pass on what information i know, but i'm worrying that it is completely boggled, and it won't be corrected by someone who could be certain.

this person mentioned that there was only one in the vatican, a rabbi, who was allowed to lecture on the annunaki.
he also said that they engineered the human species for resources.

i have already put my 2 and 2 together but i think my total is 5, so i'll just be patient and focus.

[XiWm9O9S]

searching for meaning and truth in bookstores and the internet can be a little like panning for gold; so much is patiently sifted through, yet so little is gleaned. i still have most of the books i read before the advent of the internet, there are several hundred stacked away in my little apartment. there's a roughly even split between spiritual (books on meditation, esp, chakras, philosophy, winnie the pooh, channelling, world religion, etc) and ufo related material.

these two main threads of enquiry seemed separate; yet, i intuitively felt that they were different sides of the same coin.

i learned early to avoid allowing a closed system of belief to coalesce in my mind, and, again, as fiz has so eloquently put it, this keeps you from rejecting new material of potential value because you already know all about the subject!

throughout the years, and after moving mountains of literature, one realizes just how much 'stuff' is out there. especially in the ufo field where there is much mystery, darkness, contradiction and competition amongst writers and researchers. like photons which alter their movement and apparent structural properties in the presence of and actions of the observer, the ufo field of study seems to exhibit similar properties. the 'reality' of these phenomena seem inextricably linked to the varying conceptions of reality of those who undertake to study them. this is a totally open-ended field of study, impossible to define and package into a set of parameters of hard reality that has any set definition for the masses.

in the 1800's there were popularly described as appearing giant blimps or dirigibles, seen and described by many floating across the countryside. in the middle ages, there were multiple accounts of airborne sailing ships and strange mushroom shaped objects in meadows and forest clearings, surrounded by strange 'wee' folk. in ancient times, there were reports of 'fiery sky chariots' and men who came to earth from heaven.

throughout history, people's actual perceptions of otherworldly phenomena have been determined by what the popular culture of their times dictates. this, i believe, is in accordance with the 'law of confusion', otherwise known as the 'law of free will', the primary distortion of the 'law of one'. all people are entitled to not having their own perceptions of reality infringed upon by being confronted with that which 'blows' their world view.

the ongoing process of 'disclosure' through gradual public acclimatization to the general concept of intelligence other than earth-human is progressing, in the only way i think it can. it's a slow, extremely delicate process, as per the law of free will. our 'flying saucer' popular perception is a product of our times, as mankind has defined its popular awareness through pulp fiction magazines and science fiction/fantasy novels and movies over the past 50 or 60 years.

if humanity ever reaches 'critical mass' and becomes ready to accept extra-earth intelligence popularly, we may realize that the concept of nuts and bolts flying saucers from other planets was just a working facsimile (it's appearance adjusted in accord with our take on collective reality) of the greater hyper-dimensional, or spiritual reality.

the universe mirrors ourselves back to us, positive and negative, light and dark, clear and unclear. for each individual it's more important, i think, to shine a light down into the deeper layers of one's own self, if one wants to add clarity/resolution to the muddy, roiling, dark waters of life. only within the self can be found the tools for finding the more meaningful answers to that which mystifies you. the ultimate resolution, though, to the ufo question and all it's light and dark facets is a challenge placed before humanity at large.

mark

[Nundduedola]

...all people are entitled to not having their own perceptions of reality infringed upon by being confronted with that which 'blows' their world view... i can appreciate that many people use "popular opinion" as a basis of determining what seems weird, i.e. in the evaluation of where they position themselves in society. some people seem to have a high weirdness threshold tolerance, and others less so. the utility of weirdness shouldn't be underestimated, that there are many who cling to the weird in efforts to disengage from (what their psyche may be subconsiously suggesting) that which isn't working well. there may be a relationship between free will infringement and the degree of open mindedness - that an impasse may be opportunity for someone to play their "weird cards" in chance they can free themselves from their less than fruitful situation.

[prmnwoks]

i have most of david icke's books, and while a lot of his stuff is interesting, i really don't think some of it is relevant. whether or not his reptilian tales are true or not i can't really say, but most of all i don't even really care; in other words i'm not investing any energy in the idea, one way or another, because it has no effect on the way i live my life; the decisions i make, etc. and more importantly, it does not bring me peace.

the best part of david icke's writings imho, are where he tells you what you can do about it; how you can change your world simply by holding a higher vibration, and how, if enough people do this the 'reptilians' are rendered completely powerless. this more empowering aspect of his writings, i love.

i have learned that the victims role does not serve me, and even if my ancient ancestors were genetically modified by the annunaki, there's not much i can do about that today. sometimes i, too, forget that the veil of forgetfulness is here for a reason, we don't need to go looking for answers in our past lives, or in our ancient histories or current conspiracy theories. it may be an interesting distraction, but all that we need is provided for us, right here; right now, in this moment!

[XiWm9O9S]

i can appreciate that many people use "popular opinion" as a basis of determining what seems weird, i.e. in the evaluation of where they position themselves in society. some people seem to have a high weirdness threshold tolerance, and others less so. the utility of weirdness shouldn't be underestimated, that there are many who cling to the weird in efforts to disengage from (what their psyche may be subconsiously suggesting) that which isn't working well. there may be a relationship between free will infringement and the degree of open mindedness - that an impasse may be opportunity for someone to play their "weird cards" in chance they can free themselves from their less than fruitful situation.

thanks for the response, a very good point.

i am reminded of the punk rocker phenomenon, (as well as the flower power generation, and before them the beatniks, the zoot suiters, the flapper generation, and other 'outrageous' fringe elements ) wherein kids disillusioned with the perceived strictures of their cultural and social surroundings embrace 'weirdness' in order to express their desire to break free.

thus are seeds of new social paradigms sown, as new music, fashion and social mores gradually filter into popular culture and co-exist with the older social paradigm, although with some friction, until a new generation of kids start the cycle anew, and the older 'mainstream' paradigm is gradually changed, and what was liberatingly 'weird' for our parents may be more of the strictured old-fogeyism for us.

this process occurs without necessarily infringing upon anyone's free will, as you are free to gravitate towards whatever cultural segment of society you wish.

regardless of culture, though, some are more able to accept higher degrees of weirdness than others, as you say. the mainstream press, for example, may reflect the parameters of limitation of weirdness deemed real or acceptable by a society at large; whereas an individual may be able to accept as real the more progressive concepts of the greater reality. the law of free will prevents others in the society from being 'blindsided' by these issues, so that their normal process of personal evolution is not usurped by that which they are not yet ready to face.

thus, in this time of revealing, everything is 'hidden in plain sight' for those who want to discover new truths, and those who don't will not see these things. this is why no absolute proof of ghosts, or ufo's, or psychic ability, or life after death, etc. is front page news and unequivocably demonstrable to the masses. the individual, though, if so inclined, can 'prove' these things to him/herself after careful study and inner reflection.

i have often seen very stange things in the sky, but in every case there has been room to rationalize (sometimes a stretch!) it as being some mundane, 'natural' occurance, or a trick of the eyes or mind. for myself, i can say i feel that this is because i need to find my personal assurances and connection to the greater intelligence, within myself.

so, what about those who still 'sleep' who are suddenly, traumatically faced with a 'close encounter' of the undeniable kind? why them and not me? i suppose that it's possible this could be arranged by their own higher self in order to kickstart an awakening process which is not going to happen any other way, and for them time could be of the essence here. in this way they may not be having their free will infringed upon. this is merely conjecture, of course, but the free will of the awakening soul here is of paramount importance.

[Nundduedola]

...the free will of the awakening soul here is of paramount importance... thanks for a thought provoking reply. it may be that on some level, if "free will" is so important than likewise infringing upon another's "free will" may also be a factor, as if there may be some price in their own free will to pay for it.

from another perspective i consider the possibility that human culture seems an experiment which is being observed. certainly there's help offered and for some this is welcomed and for others it may be ignored. what seems the recipe that facilitates evolving a human being to their spiritual potential?

maybe that is part of the role that a higher self can play, and maybe there's various degrees of aptitude in the higher self's ability to influence that. some may enter life with what seems like a head start in such ways, others may seem brand new. possibly technology plays some role here.

some suggest each path contains some legitimacy, if not in the interest of progress than in the ability to offer contrast to progress. maybe for some we learn what not to do before we can learn what to do in the interest of our progress and in helping the progress of others.

sometimes i wonder about the idea of evolutionary advantage, as if some lifeforms may have advantage over others within the same species in terms of spiritual development. likewise, maybe there's cultural advantages.

within humanity for example, it may be that spiritualy developed people tend to be happier then otherwise. here the twist seems that many people may not value happiness and so may live in a sort of spiritual rut, not able to realize what their potential may have to offer: it seems as if a self denial.

[XiWm9O9S]

i know alot of people get off by experiencing this fear high-it's just like watching a great horror movie (why do we do it? because it gives us a rush. but, we can go to any sci-fi forum on the net to do this, so it is not normally inclusive on dc forum, which prefers to focus on positive concepts. we do have a few threads we have allowed fear base here because some people do need to talk about this fear. this gives us an outlet to talk thru our fear and release it, which is important for humans. if you can't verbalize it, then you can't identify it and fix it. it's just the way we are as social creatures. chris

i recall a group of 'goth' teenagers i used to know many years ago; you know, the type dressed in black from head to toe, hair dyed black with maybe some crimson-red highlites, the girls with black eyeliner, black skirts and black leotards and doc marten boots, the guys with long black coats and black painted fingernails.

i had cut my teeth on deep purple, black sabbath, led zeppelin, edgar winter (anyone remember 'frankenstein?) and so was not cut quite from the same cloth, being a little older, it was long, grungy hair, (which i still have, by the way) tight, bell bottom jeans and platform shoes for my age group.

but i was accepted somewhat as a peer by the goths, we sensed a kinship centered around a mutual feeling of alienation, not necessarily from older people but from most others around our age group. i remember being impressed with the sensitivity, artistic abilities, and compassion of many of these kids, and would suspect that many of us were wanderers.

there seemed, generally speaking, a dark fascination with things like the classic horror movie genre, songs with lyrics centered around death, depression and alienation, kind of a pre-occupation with the 'shadow' side of life in general, with this group of kids.

in retrospect, i don't think this was necessarily an unhealthy thing; it seemed they were sensitive to and acutely aware of the sorrows of mankind, anti-war and anti-injustice, and it seemed as though they were in a way grounding themselves to this shadow side of life in a way so as to resonate with it and accept its reality. for those of this group that were lightbearers, this may have been a way to channel love/light into the world at large.

i had a strange fascination with world war two from about grade three up to adulthood. i read dozens of books, hundreds of books on the subject, i used to wear surplus wwii military garb to high school. i have always felt i was a part of the war in a past life, and have had terrible vivid dreams to back that up. i suspect there are many born in the post war boom who were in that war. others would accuse me of being a war-mongerer when i was a kid, although nothing could be further from the truth.

some of the greatest, most intense passion has been aroused in me by music. i love all kinds of music, from dark to light, and the soul-wracking, energetic, cathartic, shuddering experiences of passion i feel from both dark and light. the triumphant joyousness of beethoven's ninth symphony to pink floyd's 'the wall, you name it. i recently discovered a cd by poet tom waits called "alice". it's almost like edgar allen poe has returned to make music! dark, beautiful and surreal, a strange plethora of acoustic instruments totally unplaceable within any existing genre, chasing the darkness of human fear into the light. i can't listen to it without literally sobbing. not joy, or sorrow, just pure waves of strong passion.

after listening to music that moves me so, i feel like i have passed a sizeable amount of love and energy into the world. i am left with a sense of happiness, completeness and energetic relaxation and fulfilled purpose, as though i have furthered my reason for being in the world. it's not understood by me rationally, it just is.

i feel that for some, a compassionate and loving and vigilant embracing of the shadow side of life can release much of the negative energetic conditions in the world that tend to perpetuate misery and sorrow. i can't speak for others in this forum, but i think that in some undefinable way, this is one of my sacred duties here in the latter days of the third density experience.

-let it all melt into one love.

[NKUDirectory]

in my view, david icke is caught in (popular or not, depends on the time frame) mythology (belief).

what i mean by that, is that there is a huge mythology throughout the human history, which is nothing but cosmic and what we call 'supernatural' events, that can't be described otherwise, but with myth. the word myth in greek, means a story. but the usual distinction between myth and story, is not that myth is a lie, but that myth is something else conveyed as a story, so that human beings can comprehend according to the knowledge they have attained.

it all comes from the so called gnostics of pre-christian or parallel to early christian era, in which we find supernatural beings being born of sophia, the mother whose body manifests as the earth, as a side effect of her passion and agony to stabilize her "gaze" (dream, or meditation of some sort) and thus her body in this particular realm that we are experiencing. hence, the "fall" of earth from heaven and the creation of the planet that we all know.

the gnostic mythology suggests that her first emanations were of the reptilian genome. a species that were regarded as a side effect, or a mistake, because of their ability to hold strong egos and be self centered, something that got somehow "corrected" later with the creation of the human. what this means, is that these people saw themselves as the center of the universe and the creators of it, much like modern 'new age' teaches humans in several cases, hence "you create your reality". this notion can be extended to a belief that humans have created the universe and everything that exists, given that we are all one with everything that exists. but that's utterly false and an oxymoron.

by oxymoron, i mean something like this: humans are god manifest, but god is not humans. a drop of water is water, but water is not that drop.

moving on. being self centered, these beings believing that they were the center of the universe and the creators of all, had the capacity to attain great pride in themselves and thus dismiss the divinity of the cosmos. that is to say, they believed that they were superior to god and his cosmos. "cosmos" in greek meaning a jewel, a decoration, a dressing to spirit and all that is.

that, from the biblical texts that derived from the same myths, was their "sin", which convicted them by universal law to live inside the earth, which is the body of sophia. thus, they became the demons that we all know about. which in my opinion, is nothing but the "ego" part of the angelic beings. that proud and immense ego, claimed the earth to be their property and they are the ones who invited humans to experience earth life as we now know it, which is in total or partial separation from the divine, that is, the forgetfulness of their dream and the beginning of their belief, which possibly resulted to the development of the human mind as we now know it.

but because the human was of other higher origin, that inevitably created conflict between these entities and the concept of evil was born, embodied in an entity that humans have called satan (and named by many names). the eternal battle of evil against good began.

but what do "reptilians" have to do with all this? well, there is no difference between those demons and the reptilians. what the demons do, the reptilians do, what the demons were accused for, the reptilians are accused for. it's just that the 'new age' belief, is not very fond of the concept of god and divinity, but substitutes everything in terms of alien creatures and politics. it is easier for them to believe in an entity called "infinite love", in the place of god and in entities called "reptilians", in the place of angels.

all the rest, you know it from david and his material. we are the universal energy of love, manifested in love, living in love, unless we possess and concentrate that energy in a self and merge it with beings that we call "vampires", who believe and want their egos to live forever. no ego lives forever though, because it is an illusion and this is nothing but deception. what an ego can become, is transcendent and incorporated into the universal logos, because it is part of that logos and it has always existed.

i know all this sounds a little crazy, but it is only left to imagination, there is no way one can understand the science behind it, not even myself, because our human science is not yet that advanced.

[hotsaucemidl]

i really thing that david icke is over exaggerating with many of his conclusions. for instance, in zetigest all he is trying to prove is that jesus never existed, dough what i see, the only thing he has proven is that he wasn't what we think he was. so, i think he really jumps to conclusions way too fast.

i personally think that reptilians are just another of those ever exaggerations, on a global scale. but who knows, maybe they do exist in some other dimension? this might be why all those channelers are talking about them..

if you ever run on to [name] on youtube, you're gonna know what i'm talking about. people are literally brainwashed with this reptilian bs these days.