[enfoires]

was last tuesday the day after i found out that a student at my son's high school had committed suicide. we didn't know the boy but it opened up the opportunity to talk with both my sons about suicide and what would bring a high-school student to commit suicide (pressure from parents, breakups etc.).

i was meditating on tuesday and all of a sudden i was flooded with the recognition of the pain his parents must be suffering. it's even bringing tears to my eyes now just thinking about it.

i was hoping to share these kinds of heart-openings that we all experience in our day-to-day lives.

hugs,
stacy

[kavaTeexy]

i feel your deep compassion and empathy for the other family. have you thought about letting them know how deeply your heart hurts for them? perhaps sending a card, a note to tell them what you have felt ..... if you have not already done so....

i am sure your kindness and reaching out will touch their hearts in this time of great sadness.

in these moments, when a story or event happens, i believe our hearts are open more and more and are at one with another, truly.

heart to heart connections and being one in life

[enfoires]

thank you rhonda, that's an excellent idea!

and i wholeheartedly :-) agree that these are the times that our hearts are most open....

[TNOULbr2]

our life here is so tumultuous.

the children are forgiven.

it was too much for me growing up, but some how i got through it.

a cornucopia of pain, with brief periods of hope and faith...

climaxed with a certain assured promise of divinity.

[Agrisalia]

loneliness, sadness, isolation, depression. not having anyone to talk to or who he/she feels like understands. no hope or light at the end of the tunnel.

it is unfortunate and really sad.

the problem with suicide is that now the family is going to be wondering what they did wrong, and, when they figure it out they won't be able to rectify the situation. they won't be able to say, "i'm sorry" and try to fix it. they will be left with tremendous amounts of guilt for the rest of their lives.

this is a question to all people here on the forums. what are some better ways for kids to express the most extreme feelings of anger and depression??

what is a good way for these kids to get across to their parents the depth of emotions that they are feeling? to really make the parents understand that this kid would really rather die than go on another day. get the point across without actually committing the act. then everyone gets a chance to grow and heal from the experience. and a big gaping black hole is not left behind.

any ideas?

[enfoires]

your right, foo, it is such an unfortunate situation!

my aunt committed suicide when i was about ten years old and some of my family have taken the opportunity to figure out what they could have done better in that situation. and do the soul-searching that was necessary to change their modus-operandi and be more sensitive or whatever it was they needed to do. but i've also seen others go into a deeper state of denial and numbness sometimes self-medicating with alcohol & drugs.

with my own kids i always have nightmares if they are going through something difficult in their lives. i guess that's one of the benefits of having neptune on my scorpio rising, four planets in pisces and neptune transits for almost ten years! and i also find with my boys that i just have to be around for them to talk to when they feel like it. and not just say "here's your ten-minutes". i decided when they were young that i would work from home. so when they come home from school, we hang out while i'm cooking dinner and just chat. and i've also noticed that driving them to their sports activities offers good opportunities for chatting...

[Agrisalia]

your right, foo, it is such an unfortunate situation!

my aunt committed suicide when i was about ten years old and some of my family have taken the opportunity to figure out what they could have done better in that situation. and do the soul-searching that was necessary to change their modus-operandi and be more sensitive or whatever it was they needed to do. but i've also seen others go into a deeper state of denial and numbness sometimes self-medicating with alcohol & drugs.

with my own kids i always have nightmares if they are going through something difficult in their lives. i guess that's one of the benefits of having neptune on my scorpio rising, four planets in pisces and neptune transits for almost ten years! and i also find with my boys that i just have to be around for them to talk to when they feel like it. and not just say "here's your ten-minutes". i decided when they were young that i would work from home. so when they come home from school, we hang out while i'm cooking dinner and just chat. and i've also noticed that driving them to their sports activities offers good opportunities for chatting...

i whole heartedly agree. i think that is the single most important thing that a parent can offer a child. just time to talk openly and honestly and form a close relationship. and i think the child really needs to feel like he/she can say anything without being judged. i mean, if the thoughts are in him/her then it is in all of us, right? so why judge?

the kid who committed suicide probably did not have this relationship with his/her family. probably felt all alone and nobody understood. or was disciplined instead of listened to. that seems to happen a lot. a kid is punished for having thoughts or feelings which eventually turns into actions. then they get punished and they begin to feel like a bad person and they feel shameful.

my humble respect,
foo

[enfoires]

foo,

i was chatting to my son about the suicide last night and he said that the family still doesn't want to talk about it. no one even knows how the boy actually killed himself. the family is obviously having a very hard time & my heart still goes out to them.

i think part of the story is that there was probably very high expectations on the guy. my son goes to a school that about 3/4 of the kids are in a very academic french program but my son is not in it. about three years ago another boy committed suicide and that was the story that eventually came out. he just couldn't handle the pressure of the ever-increasing expectations from his parents & teachers.

i recognized early on that being a high achiever was not a ticket to success so i've only pressured my kids to make sure that they did their best, had respect for their teachers, have lots of interests but kept an active social life.

i was a good student and spent many years in university only to find that i was being fed a bunch of bull from professors who were trapped in a bureaucratic bubble. but i've warned my kids that they don't want marks that will be closing doors to opportunities they may want to pursue in the future.

then again, sometimes you can't overthink this stuff and you have to just go with your intuition.

foo, it's good you are thinking about this now!

hugs,
stacy

[Agrisalia]

foo,

i was chatting to my son about the suicide last night and he said that the family still doesn't want to talk about it. no one even knows how the boy actually killed himself. the family is obviously having a very hard time & my heart still goes out to them.

i think part of the story is that there was probably very high expectations on the guy. my son goes to a school that about 3/4 of the kids are in a very academic french program but my son is not in it. about three years ago another boy committed suicide and that was the story that eventually came out. he just couldn't handle the pressure of the ever-increasing expectations from his parents & teachers.

i recognized early on that being a high achiever was not a ticket to success so i've only pressured my kids to make sure that they did their best, had respect for their teachers, have lots of interests but kept an active social life.

i was a good student and spent many years in university only to find that i was being fed a bunch of bull from professors who were trapped in a bureaucratic bubble. but i've warned my kids that they don't want marks that will be closing doors to opportunities they may want to pursue in the future.

then again, sometimes you can't overthink this stuff and you have to just go with your intuition.

foo, it's good you are thinking about this now!

hugs,
stacy

in my experience with grief, and i am sure you can relate with your experience with your aunt, that a loss like this is so overwhelming that it is a while before you can even begin to process it. i am sure it will be a long time before they can even let themselves feel any emotion or talk about it. my heart bleeds for them.

in my humble opinion, i think you have a great formula for a healthy, balanced family. there are many forms that success can take besides just regurgitating outdated data from professors who are trapped in a "bureaucratic bubble".

but, just like you said, sometimes you kind of have to play their game a bit in order to not close doors to any opportunities for yourself.

let me add one thing to your already great formula. i have always kind of been the guy who is not terribly ambitious and i have always said that "i just want to be happy". but a mentor of mine told me once that that is not enough. he said not to just be happy but to go out and do good. go out and do something positive for the world. the happiness will definitely come right along with that but, in his opinion, it is almost kind of lazy to just sit around and be happy.

i don't know, just food for thought.

in humility and gratitude,
foo

[enfoires]

yes, foo, i agree. if you aren't helping others out in some way then you are not adding to the overall good on the planet and in the universe.

i know a mother who has allowed her son to drop out of high-school and essentially play video games all day because she believes that he's an indigo child and can't function in school. and she convinces herself that he's learning what he needs to know from the video games.

let me say, that my boys play their share of video games because i do believe that there's a mythic component of themselves that they can explore in the games & i think it's important to play & have fun. but i have always insisted that even if they have a difficult teacher or difficult coach or whoever that they try and have compassion and deal with them the best they can. because difficult people (mostly people who don't realize that they are interconnected with everything) are everywhere and they're usually just acting out of pain. of course the line must be drawn if any of these people start acting abusive.

so i don't think it helps the kid if you allow them to totally isolate from the world even though the world can be screwed up & painful at times.

i feel like i'm an indigo as much as my kids and one of the best lessons i've learned is that my sensitivity allows me to identify problem areas & problem people and stand up to them and be an agent of change.

you're probably much the same?

[effebrala]

my mother committed suicide about a decade back. i was in the house at the time and heard the shot (gun). i held the rag to stop the bleeding till the ambulance got there and a few days later i and the family decided to let nature take it's course.

i remember the night she passed away. i was at the hospital to visit her in the intensive care. they have a board where the list the 'condition' of each patient. next to my mothers name was 'chilly 104' or something like that. i went into the room to visit her and asked my friend to leave for a moment with her. i cried, prayed and talked with her. i asked her to leave, to end her suffering on this plane. "please, just go." later that morning i recieved a call that she had passed away no less than an hour after i left.

this came after a long battle with alcohol and depression. she struggled for so long and i remember what she told me "i'm so tired.. i just want to see my family again "(the ones who passed away). i knew she had a gun, but at the time i didn't think to take it with me.. she even told me about the gun when speaking of suicide. i don't think i took her seriously at the time, or for whatever reason this was meant to be so i lost sight of the fact about the gun.

the healing process for me is still ongoing. i know for a fact that where she is she is better off. here life was one of great struggle and suffering. i also feel that she is still watching over me now, far more clear in her being than she was before.

one thing i know is that people must not blame themselves for what the did or didn't do. it was never my fault, nor was there really anything i could have done. if we get into the habit of trying to ask ourselves 'what could i have done differently' you start the game of blaming yourself for what happened and that simply is not the case. we need to forgive them, to love them, to appreciate what they brought into our lives and thank them gently and let them go. we need to forgive ourselves for what we felt we contributed, to understand what truly happened, the catalysts that were present.

all of this is a delicate dance between us and our other selves. other selves help to show us what hides inside ourselves, to help us heal and move on. what may seem on the top to be a great tragedy may in fact be the greatest blessing. it's all in how you look at it. we are endless, and no 'death' will ever end us. there is only change and returning to the source. to understand the sacred nature of others, you must also understand the sacred nature of the self.

i hope that the parents of this boy will find peace, however it may come to them. high school, i remember, was such a turbulent time in my life. i remember that everything seemed so blown out of proportion and on top of it all, i never quite felt equipped to deal with it at the time (this is probably because this is the key time we learn our coping skills). i have no doubt that those times are toughest on teenagers and kids. added to that are the drugs that people try to push on them to 'help' further upsetting the balance of these children. every one of us understands that life is excellerating, that things are coming faster and faster. keep that in mind when you think of your own youth and how troubling it seemed at the time, now its much more so for them! be at peace and help them through it, help them understand whats going on in the world, give them answers to their questions and help them to pray and be at peace too.

may the light of the infinite creator shine through you all.

peace.
errol.

[Agrisalia]

yes, foo, i agree. if you aren't helping others out in some way then you are not adding to the overall good on the planet and in the universe.

i know a mother who has allowed her son to drop out of high-school and essentially play video games all day because she believes that he's an indigo child and can't function in school. and she convinces herself that he's learning what he needs to know from the video games.

let me say, that my boys play their share of video games because i do believe that there's a mythic component of themselves that they can explore in the games & i think it's important to play & have fun. but i have always insisted that even if they have a difficult teacher or difficult coach or whoever that they try and have compassion and deal with them the best they can. because difficult people (mostly people who don't realize that they are interconnected with everything) are everywhere and they're usually just acting out of pain. of course the line must be drawn if any of these people start acting abusive.

so i don't think it helps the kid if you allow them to totally isolate from the world even though the world can be screwed up & painful at times.

i feel like i'm an indigo as much as my kids and one of the best lessons i've learned is that my sensitivity allows me to identify problem areas & problem people and stand up to them and be an agent of change.

you're probably much the same?

i do feel the same as you. indigo, wanderer, i am not sure what i am. when i was a kid i wanted to kill off the sensitivity in me because i felt it was a weakness. i wasn't capable of the physical and emotional violence other people seemed to be able to inflict with ease. and to a large degree i did succeed with hardening myself up only to find out that my sensitivity is probably my greatest gift and i came close to wasting it.

to be perfectly honest with you, due to a serious case of low self-esteem i have not been very good at standing up for myself or to other people in the past. because of this self-depreciation i really visited some dark places and i experienced first hand the serious manic lows this world has to offer. but all of that is changing now. i feel i am finally leaving the dark side of my life and entering the light, good part of it. i am really grateful for my experience because i have learned a lot. not just in theory but in experience.

i am not a parent but i have thought a whole lot about how i will handle it when i become one. it must be really hard, bordering on agonizing at times, to try to discern what the best way to raise them is. right?

i don't agree with the lady who lets her kid drop out of high school and play video games. i mean, indigo or not, he is going to have to learn how to negotiate this world some day. is she going to let him sit there the rest of his life? childhood is to learn how to live in the real world. and the real world does not pay you to sit around and play video games. sad but true.

i bet the mother just wants her son to be happy and wants to protect him from feeling the lows of the outside world. but, in my opinion, she is doing him a disservice. the kid is going to be socially inept. being an indigo, he needs more social training than the average kid and he is getting less.

love, in my opinion, is not about always giving your loved ones what they want. it is about doing your best to facilitate their spiritual growth. if that means making them a little unhappy while they are still living at home so that they will have a more healthy and balanced adult life then, i think, we have to do it. putting them in tough situations from time to time so that they can learn how to handle it while the parents are still right there by their side to help and support them through it is better than sheltering them and then throwing them to the wolves without a few practice runs first is not, in my opinion, good for the kid. but, of course, i have never had kids so i can only imagine how hard it must be. but i guess this is where the old saying comes in, "you'll thank me for this later."

it is really hard sometimes to be an indigo/wanderer because you have to deal with people on a daily basis who are difficult/lost/confused. and often times these people are in positions of power. so it is great you are teaching your kids to treat people with patience and compassion. i think it is important for them to learn that now before they hit the "real" world.

my cousin is raising two boys and she told me once that a problem she had was that she was always trying to do the perfectly right thing for them. and it was keeping her from really enjoying her time with them because it stressed her out. so she said a big lesson she learned was to also show them how to really enjoy life. be happy, silly, be free, laugh, and suck the marrow out of life. and not try to be perfect all the time.

wow, i can't believe i wrote that much. what was your experience like growing up as a highly sensitive and intuitive indigo?

foo

[Agrisalia]

wow ewhaz. what a tragedy to suffer through. you described your feelings beautifully. i agree that it is not good to take the blame or the guilt for things like this. that is something that i still have problems with.

i hope that you find peace as well. it sounds like you are doing ok. but i guess something like this never totally goes away.

it is true that no death ever completely ends us, we just cross over, but sometimes it seems so hard to say goodbye.

thanks for telling your story. it is good to know that life goes on and gets better after something like that.

peace be with you,
foo

[enfoires]

ewhaz & foo,

i just want to give you both my heartfelt thanks for sharing so much of yourselves. it brings tears to my eyes when i read both of your posts from yesterday & reminds me that this is why we are here!

i dreamt about families of bears last night. mothers & babies. i guess that is what having children has done for me is brought out my mother bear instinct. so as you were asking, foo, about what it was like growing up indigo/wanderer, i did have a coat of armour on to protect myself because otherwise i couldn't have made it through with all the suffering that was caused by people who were just ignorant of what they were doing. but i had children when i was pretty young and they really forced me to soften and my ego started to dissolve because i understood what it really means to care more for someone else than myself. but i'm sure this can happen without having children :-).

so a part of me wants to protect not only my kids but practically everyone i know from the harsh/cruel world. but you're right foo, sooner or later, we all have to face it. that is the constant balance of being a parent but also that's what it's like being a friend. and hopefully we will all be a part of making the world a better place during the transition to come.

lots of love,
stacy