[Sotmoigma]

perhaps the origin is the same as the origin of conditional love, the devil might be a direct reflection of the conditions placed upon love, this would be the creator exploring itself, knowing itself. both sides are capable of expressing evil, just like they are both capable of serrendering to unconditional love, the christ light (inteligent infinity). so you may have two sides, conditional love and lucifer, climbing through the octave, fighting for inteligent energy, seeking creation, at times both expressing evil. this balance might be the ultimate expression of the creator's free will........this is a touchy subject, especially when it comes to understanding duality. to me, lucifer represents infinite knowledge, which can easily be abused without wisdom. on the other hand to me conditional love represents infinite wisdom lacking in understanding. both thriving, learning from each other.......sylvain...........

[9mm_fan]

i suggest holding a quiet awareness of the misery in the world, knowing it represents nothing more than an aspect of the experiencing of the creator, having no lasting influence on our lives other than learning how to live love more completely. this is the true, sacramental nature of suffering. the trade-off; suffering is never permanent nor does it ever scar irrevocably, but the love learned is eternal, never dying, only increasing.

mark, that's an excellent suggestion! however, one cannot experience your solution, while one remains focused on the problem. einstein said that you can't get to the solution with the same level of consciousness that is experiencing the problem.

see, mark, we men are natural problem solvers. i read an article recently by a world famous psychologist, about the inherent differences between men and women. they tell us their problems, and then we come up with these amazing solutions. then they get exasperated, because they were communicating and trying to express themselves. so when we offer the solution that just kills it all, conversation over and they are miffed.

i swear i really did read this recently, but without my eloquent and charming spin on it, of course!

[Karpattaisp]

these things only explain human suffering.

but they don't seem to explain the large scale animal suffering.
do animal abusers come back as animals?

i know in the past here people have suggested animals offering themselves as catalysts, but while i can see this possibly explaining animal suffering on a smaller scale, it doesn't seem to explain things on a larger scale. i'm talking about factory farms and laboratories.

are these animals experiencing karma? if they are, they must have been humans in previous lives, as animals aren't capable of doing such things to each other.

i really wish i could find the answers.

i have been searching for answers to questions like these within and without for a long, long time.

[Kamendoriks]

regarding the original question, i have found that the easiest way to translate the (quite limited and two-dimensional) concept of satan into something more realistic is to read through scripture, simply substituting the word "self" or "himself" or such wherever you find the word "satan" or "devil."

basically, that's all that "satan" is: just a pointer that refers back to the self-serving aspects of yourself. when jesus went out into the desert, he wasn't tempted by a man with red skin, horns, and a pointy beard. read through his temptations. he was being tempted by his own thoughts. i suspect the writers (or, more likely, the editors) of the gospels were loathe to admit that the christ had within himself even the possibility of evil, thus they projected anything unbefitting onto the usual scapegoat from down south.

[Kamendoriks]

while we're on the subject of our old friend from down under, here's something i learned yesterday:

in japanese, the word for "christmas," when written using chinese characters, is written thus: (you will need to be able to display japanese or unicode to see these) 聖誕祭

聖 means "holy," "sacred," "saint," or "emperor."

誕 means "birth" or "appearance."

and 祭 means "festival" or "holiday."

in chinese, these characters are pronounced "sheng dan jie," but the japanese language doesn't have enough sounds to accommodate all of that, so it gets roughed down to "sei tan sai."

since "sai" just means "festival" and there are all kinds of different "sai's," this word for "christmas" could also be heard and understood, if one were so inclined, as "sei-tan sai," or "satan festival."

which, of course, will be how i write it on all of my outgoing xmas cards from now on.

[Smalmslobby]

i feel that the "devil" is actually our ego controlling us and using whatever "negative" emotions or feelings to produce this "devil" in this illusionary realm we live in. i dont feel the devil is real per say, but instead, is our dark selves that one must overcome in order to evolve spiritually. some beings or entities do not really overcome ego, and so, they go about trying to sate their ego's hunger for power, control, what have you. and, from what i gather, things that we do not like about others, are really reflections of ourselves. but, thats just what i gather, and my opinion based on what i have seen and read. take it for what its worth. = )

[genna]

i am new to this whole learning process and don't speak as prophetically as you people as you oviously have way more knowledge tha n i,however i do find dave's stuff to be quite remarkable especially the part about the "illuminati"..do you actually think that this cult is so close to lucifer that they can actually feed on our fears of them and the supposive power they have over our lives?

[genna]

i am concerned as to why people would want to believe that these orion beings.are somewhat able to cause us harm in controlling our thoughts i thought that satan was the evil entity that corrupts us not these aliens...
i'm serious..i'm not mocking anyone..just curious..

[Sotmoigma]

i know in the past here people have suggested animals offering themselves as catalysts, but while i can see this possibly explaining animal suffering on a smaller scale, it doesn't seem to explain things on a larger scale. i'm talking about factory farms and laboratories.

as we approach the end of this density, we recognise more and more the efforts of negative energies, this is the process. our consciousness is absorbing reality using it's new found freedom revealing challenges that are hard to face....... people working in these farms and laboratories are being human, we must accept it and perhaps send them love. there actions are cruel to earth and surely hurting her. i'm convinced that cruel people all over the world are feeling earth's vibrations raise, giving them one last chance to look deep within themselves, this might be the whole point.....sylvain.......

[Peabelilt]

these things only explain human suffering.

but they don't seem to explain the large scale animal suffering.
do animal abusers come back as animals?

i know in the past here people have suggested animals offering themselves as catalysts, but while i can see this possibly explaining animal suffering on a smaller scale, it doesn't seem to explain things on a larger scale. i'm talking about factory farms and laboratories.

are these animals experiencing karma? if they are, they must have been humans in previous lives, as animals aren't capable of doing such things to each other.

i really wish i could find the answers.

i have been searching for answers to questions like these within and without for a long, long time.

if you reflect on the experience you have when thinking about the suffering animals you may realize this catalyst is allowing you to experience greater levels of compassion, empathy and love than would normally be possible for you without tremendous effort, also, going through a trying experience can bring great understandings in the true value of strength, trust and patience.

this doesnt mean we should hope for bad things to happen but understand the value in all situations presented to us in our spiritual evolution because they are all gifts and tools to be used.

[viiagrag]

dear realization,

because of your background there is much in the law of one that will cause you concern and puzzlement. first of all the ra material is not based on christian principles as you understand them. in fact, in many considerations of doctrine they are found to be mutually exclusive. ( note: the ra material is not a religion per se, but rather a philosophy of religion. big difference!)

true, many who are attracted to the divine cosmos are indeed "christians", but in a loose, unexamined sense... and the channeler, carla rueckert, is a self-declared christian herself, who uses the challenge of the "christ light" as a filter/bar for her psychic communications.

however, the large majority of us would be gleefully burned at the stake by zealots if somehow we were transported back to the middle ages.

question; have you read the "ra material study guide"? until you accomplish that required task of learning most of what appears on site here will remain bizzarre and unintelligable.

about your question concerning satan. from the q'uo readings (llresearch.org) satan -- along with the virgin mary-- is described as a thought form rather than being an actual entity. in a real sense satan does not truly exist as an independant "being" but is instead a "principle".

the orions are quite real. they are a society of negative polarity beings who have come to earth as "crusaders", with their business being to recruit converts to their system. the mark of negative polarity is to control others --even for their perceived good... for instance, parts of the ten commandments
with their "shall nots" are negative ploys ... "shall nots" ain't from god!

we positively orientated goody-two-shoes think of them as being evil
that may be the natural reaction, but from a spiritual viewpoint the orions have an indisputable spiritual right to pursue their dastardly course of action. (!!) we are all one, all of the one creator...with no part more valuable than another. in christianity, god is absolutely distinct from his mere creatures, just waiting to thump and dump them into hell if they dare wander fractionally off course.

i hope this is not a "bummer" to you... i was a christian for some 15 years before i became suspicious and studied myself out of it. it was difficult making the mental switch until i could see things in a new light.

as dear carla would say:in the principle of jesus the christ i send you my love! billybobbutterball

i am concerned as to why people would want to believe that these orion beings.are somewhat able to cause us harm in controlling our thoughts i thought that satan was the evil entity that corrupts us not these aliens...
i'm serious..i'm not mocking anyone..just curious..

[Sotmoigma]

i am new to this whole learning process and don't speak as prophetically as you people as you oviously have way more knowledge tha n i,however i do find dave's stuff to be quite remarkable especially the part about the "illuminati"..do you actually think that this cult is so close to lucifer that they can actually feed on our fears of them and the supposive power they have over our lives?

again, touchy subject. in my view, whenever anybody fears or feels diminished, whatever the source of this fractal unraveling, then would be the main consumers of this drained energy. to me, understanding this influence is the first step in pluging the drain, or better yet, we can learn to put this energy to better use ...............sylvain.....................

[asypecresty]

if you reflect on the experience you have when thinking about the suffering animals you may realize this catalyst is allowing you to experience greater levels of compassion, empathy and love than would normally be possible for you without tremendous effort, also, going through a trying experience can bring great understandings in the true value of strength, trust and patience. ... i think in a mundane sense, the transition to a vegetarian diet may be an example of such an idea, where a person becomes more sensitized or sensitive then they may experience otherwise. in the extreme, there seem the aesthetics(sp?) who fast in effort to energetically evolve (these seem the hard-core vegetarians.)

this likely relates to earth changes, that a vegetarian diet on a mass scale may seem more sustainable otherwise - and so as the individual vibration raises as a result, so may the collective vibration.


soup