[zibTefapparia]

i've been suffering hellish experiences, not physically but psychically. i've had suicidal impulses, but not the "courage" to carry them through. most pple would say it's a cowardice to commit suicide...i don't think one can generalize upon that, especially if not having had these feelings oneself; i'm grateful though that i didn't do it.

i have problems with the concept of the death of jesus as being "unnecessary", then you could say that all suffering is "unneccesary". it gives me a feeling of disrespect if not formulated otherwise. you can think that the death of a "selfmurderbomber" as we say in sweden is unnecessary....i think they are all desperate pple, brainwashed to believe they are doing the right thing, even mentally disabled pple are now being used by the powerelite to explode themselves..they don't even understand what is going to happen to them.....

nothing that happens is "unnecessary". it's happening that's all, and we-who have the grace of being able to have to relate to what's happening in the most loving and enlightened way possible.

this is how i deeply feel at the moment, i'm open to alternative prerspectives but also veeeery sensitive to"spiritual hubris".

transiten

[ziIReIGS]

it rains on rich and poor alike. psychic gifts won't save you.

randomness is a reality. good people get squashed, literally (needless suffering in all it's glory).

there's much more proof of jesus being a composite figure (rather than historical). ie., a myth. like all the rest! why would this one (myth) be any different? because they used to kill you if you did'nt buy into it.

suicide. no big deal. the problem here is technique. a painless technique...

i'd have been gone a decade ago. and this is a wake up call to; i reflect on this and see still, there's really nothing to hang around for. might be selfish...

guess i'm a product of an artificial system. or, i see what's actually there. to, i'm not out to save the world...

but when under attack....always know it will fade in time. 1, 2, 6, 12, 24, 36 hours...

[8Uxtkz7F]

hey transiten. look, i have absolutely considered and nearly crossed myself over to the other side. no joke. i really came close on several occasions.

can i ask you one question? where did you get the idea that suffering or anything was unnecessary?

i needed to make some serious changes and i needed to grow and there was many reasons why i was resisting this. low self-esteem, self-doubt, anger, fear, anxiety. the resistance to the growth that the oneness knows you are capable of is what creates friction and suffering. there is growth that needs to be done and your angels or the oneness knows you are capable of this challenge and it won't let you get off easy.

i know how you feel my friend. but don't give up!!

you can do it. i know it is so damn challenging sometimes you just want to destroy yourself.

you are up to the challenge. be a winner and come out of this thing on top.

pm me if you want to talk. i have been through it. i will help as much as i can.

foo

[9mm_fan]

i have problems with the concept of the death of jesus as being "unnecessary", then you could say that all suffering is "unneccesary".

if you are referring to my earlier comments, i sincerely apologize if my comments led to confusion. for the record what i said was, "seems like i recall ra discussing the suffering of jesus and calling it a valid path, but unnecessary. i think ra was ok with the suffering, but felt like it need not result in death." ra didn't say "unnecessary" that was my phrase.
what ra did say was that when jesus chose the path of martyrdom; it turned from work mixing love and wisdom and embraced martyrdom which is the work of love without wisdom.
[and also]
we do not imply that this course of unbridled compassion has any fault but affirm its perfection. it is an example of love which has served as beacon to many. it was q'uo who said that suffering is unnecessary, but they also say, "any experience may be suffered or allowed to occur, yet it is the experience which is not resisted which brings a lack of suffering." here's more from q'uo; why is suffering necessary? we would change this question to “why is experience necessary?” for as we have said suffering is not necessary, even for those who starve, for those who are naked, suffering is not necessary. the experience, the pain, be it ever so deep, does not necessarily bring suffering. for entities to turn and embrace their troubles it requires much, much learning, much grasping of the true nature of experience. the experiencing is necessary because you have chosen to manifest and to manifest one must accept space and time in a structure which creates a process through time or through space and in that process through time and space the reason for manifestation develops itself, which is to say that as each experience is processed within choices are made which advance the uniqueness of that entity’s identity. these experiences are as necessary as the text books of your classrooms. there must be some way of learning the lessons which are given in the school of life, for your incarnation is, indeed, a school, and it is a school which you enter in each incarnation with great hopes of achievement. yet when the semester begins the work is hard, painful and inconvenient, and it is only natural for the student to protest that inevitable grind of one project after another after another. is there no end to learning? no, indeed, there is not.

[zibTefapparia]

i actually responded to another thread about "pitfalls in the ra-material" and was moved here. if you want to get the right perspective, read that thread first.

the fact that the jesusmyth exist in variations in many religions, "son=sun" etc, doesn't exclude he also existed.

i feel you're spreading very nihilistic wibes vithar, correct me if i'm wrong.

liliane

[Gakeincidoniac]

transiten, i'm sorry for what you're going through. i've been dealing with some of this myself- issues of despair and not seeing how things can get better or change much.

i've also been experiencing some inner nudges proding me to shift my perception of this. this is what has been revealing itself lately.

this seems to have been helped after writing a letter of gratitude to my higher self, thanking self/spirit for leading me to helpfull books,teachers,friends..etc in my past, acknowledging these times where i felt more "in the flow" or more in synch. as i wrote, i went ahead and included thanks for the challenging times where nothing seemed to help (such as what i've been experiencing recently).

in this writing/contemplative/gratitude process i recognized that the deeper the suffering, the greater the pressure to surrender to spirit and with this surrender (recalling my past experience) is revealed a deeper space of presence/peace/stillness within us that we then radiate (knowingly or unknowingly) to others. i've been remembering that i'm in this process- a part of it/one with it.


a prayer came to me, expressing this as:

may my suffering be offered in the healing and blessing of all beings.

while i repeated it within me and felt it, i also felt into the sense or perception that said:

- nothing is wasted. not just this suffering but every moment and every littlest bit of our experience is of value and part of a total process that is essentially loving and ultimately cleansing and healing.

the image that came up was that my suffering was like a glass of water- where the water is the suffering i am holding. in realizing that the water in that glass is also perfectly one with the water flowing in the river, it was like i was no longer relating to it as something "i" needed to contain. i could just let it flow and metaphorically toss it back into the river.

the realization for me is: i dont need to hold on to it- this cosmos is ultimately trustworthy- their is a larger process at work that i may not be able to fathom at this time (but that's ok- i dont necessarily need to).

out of this process i have felt an energetic loosening and a sort of dropping into a deeper, more at ease place.

know that i'm wishing you this ease to.

tomas :- )

[zibTefapparia]

thanks for your support foosnik!

and supermanny, again i sometimes misunderstand things, english not being my native language..not necessarily this time, but thanks for the clarification.

vithar, for the same reason as described above, i have difficulties figuring out whether you're being ironic or fed up with your life.

i'll be back. liliane

[SpeavaJap]

i see everything as necessary, everything, otherwise it wouldn’t have happened... or not happened...

other day i was trying to think what in the heavens no linear time could mean... and i pictured something very interesting, i’ll try to translate, even though we have a very limited way of sharing ideas (language, meaning all languages)

well, if we are the individuated spark of the one creator, we are the essays of it coming to this self created reality, like when we put on a neoprene clothe and masks to dive, we are seeing trough this mater and yet we are not it. now imagine if the neoprene clothes started thinking that that's all they were.... very limiting! very dramatic! no way out...!!!

in other words, we are now experiencing all the possibilities that we can create, all of them, and they must be all necessary and precious to our creator, but we wont be able to see it if we still thinking that we are this thing that can even die…

hope this helps ease the hurting feelings, i know that you know that you see it differently sometimes, and i also know that you know that we era having a unique opportunity to see it in this transition period!

big hug

[9mm_fan]

supermanny, again i sometimes misunderstand things, english not being my native language..not necessarily this time, but thanks for the clarification.
i'll be back. liliane

no worries, my dear, your english is quite good, but i do understand how the sentence structure is different, etc. english was not my first language either, altho it is now my primary one.

seth once said that our emotions are like the weather, (and even affect the weather) some clouds and rain are conducive to growth, even tho we may prefer sunshine. just remember, "this too, shall pass."

sometimes it helps to make a list of all your blessings, or start a gratitude journal to remind you there is more to life than what we sometimes focus on.

if there is one thing i wish i could help you understand, it is this; you can experience all the physical and emotional pain of life, fully and completely, and yet not suffer. because of some injuries and stuff, i experience a good deal of physical pain in my life, but i never consider it to be suffering. q'uo says that this is how animals experience it. "... if it has the cut or the lame paw it simply has this. it endures it without suffering. it experiences the pain, the discomfort, but it does not suffer, for it does not reflect within itself ...

the creator does not need your suffering. the creator wishes your experience, and if suffering is involved the creator may gladly take that also, for that is your truth. it is accepted without judgment. it is loved. it is blessed. it is not desired." much love and blessings!
~manny

[zibTefapparia]

hi boodatom and lala and thanks for your input! back later!

liliane

[videolkif]

why is always the question when suffering. so the concious interface is selfish? if all of us are we then why must we use i to seperate the one? is the creator a crazy entity that spilt itself into those trillion billion peices and is talking to itself? having a major divne therapy session in the mirror room to figure itself out? the one creator must feel mighty alone, board being by itself which is what is experienced in solitary confinement spiltting off into many personalities and then having conversations with itself. yes free will is the key! but is it free will when only giving the appearance of seperation if reality is really one creator. no co-creation as we all know rocks roll down hill. are we creating or has all this been done for us already? i am suffering even though i should have nothing to suffer about. is the creator hurting itself to feel? is the creator only rewarding those who are successful in healing oneself? leaving the others behind? oh right no gets left behind. this is asked for an answer as to why this all goes on around to what appears to be the universe which does not exist without consious thought perception. very confused with all of this as so many people use the word i as if they were seperate. when service is the reward could mean that it is the ultamate slavery of the will although we believe it to be free. serve each other to serve oneself? no more with the concept i because you did not do this alone! no internet = 0 self realization on this plane. collective concious? imbalance to rebalance? okay.

[IACJdKfU]

we only suffer when we believe our thoughts. when we question them to see if they are really true, often the suffering stops right away. when we suffer we want out of the suffering, and sometimes that means an end to the physical body, but the mind will remain, so it is not a way out in the long run ... just the short sighted way out.

thoughts of ending it all, when allowed to be a part of the whole of all that is, will often end on their own, and what is replaced, after having questioned our thoughts, is laughter. i've experienced this time and again.

okay, so a thought comes up and it brings up certain emotions. if we have a belief, we will get caught up in the thought and get carried away with it. if a thought comes up and we don't believe it to be true, it vanishes as fast as it came in.

so we want to question the thoughts that stick around and bring us down.

ask yourself if the thought is true. if you answer yes, ask yourself if you know that it is absolutely true? it can at that point be a yes, and often it will come up as a no when we ask for the absolute truth. it doesn't matter ... a yes or no is fine.

the next question will be this: how do you react when you think that thought? then answer that so you can get all the feelings out from within you.

after you feel complete, ask yourself this: who would i be without that thought -- a thought you could never think again? then go into how that would be or how you would be living your life.

now you want to turn the thought around:

you do that by looking at the opposite, the other, or my thinking, to see if any of that could be just as true.

here is an example of an all too common statement that people feel about themselves: "something is wrong with me"

here is an example of a woman asking these questions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzjlhg9lc9k