[joe-salton]

i can tell you what i typically do, but it's far from perfect. i don't really have any "advice" for you, but you may be able to learn/teach further based on my experiences.

having received a degree ostensibly in science, yet being of the conviction that the modern, main-stream, sciences are significantly more flawed than most would admit, i've had plenty of opportunity to deal with dogmatic science types. my typical and preferred approach to begin to unlock their minds -- i'll put the key in the door but to turn the key is their choice -- is to mention that i've heard about some neat things that are really strange and i'm not totally sure what to make of them.. and i stress again that they're interesting. typically this piques another's skeptical interest. i tell the whole thing like it's some neat story that someone came up with and only delve further than to say "i don't know if i believe it, but it makes some sense" if they seem open. if they don't seem open, i generally avoid the issue since this very passive approach will over time have the potential to sink into their deeper mind and, if they choose it, can catalyze great transformations.

for those who seem to be on the verge of opening up, if they seem willing to read books about things, i really like (i hope the mods will let this book title pass!) [the holographic universe] because it presents a non-overtly-spiritual slant to understanding things and gives a very broad overview of the whole of alternative sciences. it's also sufficiently scientific in its subject matter that to someone who sees things from that perspective it's very palatable.

-charles

[QuidQuoPro]

"i'll put the key in the door but to turn the key is their choice -"

i think what you wrote hits the nail right on the head. it doesn't violate the first distortion (free will) as so often emphasised by ra in the law of one.
the trick is to find the right key, so to speak. yes, i think you made a good point there.
you can only help people who ask. the trick is to get them to ask. find the right key. i like that.

i offer peace and love,

yusuf

[zibTefapparia]

hi..

some very good advice here! i've had immense problems with this, but now for the first time i've met a mediumistic woman who also is my teacher and has a scientific education but works as a fulltimemedium/teacher. up til now i almost only had books and the internet to communicate with.

transiten

[Arbinknit]

when these subjects come up, i tend to agree with what i agree with, and say "i see", or "that's cool" with what i don't agree with, and ask a lot of point of view questions, or just keep silent, as their belief are their beliefs, etc. and if they are interested in mine at all i just give them a morsle here or there, and let them be well digested with the information before i add anything else to the puzzle...(sometimes weeks or months, depending on if they bring it up again or not)...i don't really give anything away unless asked for.

i find it best to let the seeds grow before planting any new seeds, so they can see clearly each plant in the garden and tend to it before adding more, because they could be mistaken for weeds if they haven't grown yet.

[SNUfR8uI]

i think this is precisely the reason why dw has always tried hard to match his intuitions and readings with hard scientific knowledge. for people like the people who you are running up against. i would bring up some of the russian scientific experiments and try to match them on their own playing field. because i don't think they can even grasp what playing field you are even on.

read up on some of the scientific research dw has done and try them with that.

otherwise, i would save myself the grief and just kind of let it roll off your back.

i know how you feel because i have been there a number of times. it can be very frustrating.

keep your head up,
foo

[TerAlelmlor]

as lisa (and many others) have at one point predicted, we stand at any crossroads involving our relationships, and i've noticed that people who still adhere to orthodox science and skepticism are often unnerved at any mention that you are interested in metaphysics or alternative medicine.

while i don't make any effort to "convert" anybody into any particular set of beliefs (i explicitly tell people they can walk whatever path they like and i don't care), and while i understand the prejudices of religion, i'm still finding it very difficult to relate to more scientific-minded people who are confused and/or threatened by the direction i'm going in. many of them would still very much like for me to get out of that field. the question is, is there any way to simply get along, and still maintain your truth and your path in life, without having to throw away otherwise good relationships because of an inability to
agree to disagree?

many facets of orthodox science (especially what is fed to people thorugh mass media) are not ready to accept some of the things proposed in metaphysics. this is why i for one don't find it necessary to keep explaining one's path to somebody else, explain why you are into it or are drawn to it, or prove how it works. it's frankly nobody else's business, not even those who are close to you, and most people who are asking you out of fear wouldn't hear you anyway. now while i find it better to simply agree to disagree, this still can become a point of contention between me and other people.

it's easy to see that the growing popularity of science during the renaissance gave people an alternative to religion, when people started taking empirical data as true, rather than blind faith. this wasn't necessarily a bad move; however now both science and religion can take a hardened stance against things having to do with higher consciousness. and robert anton wilson once mentioned that he would receive letters both from fundamentalist religious people as well as scientific-minded skeptics, the former accusing him of being a satan-worshipper, and the latter accussing him of being a charlatan and fraud. he said that, "both groups share in the same crusading zeal and the same total lack of humor, charity, and common human decency."

so any thoughts on this? any thoughts on how we can all simply get along, regardless of which way we lean? how do you get along with a more skeptical crowd that isn't really ready for the direction you're going in?

[Reafnartefs]

so any thoughts on this? any thoughts on how we can all simply get along, regardless of which way we lean? how do you get along with a more skeptical crowd that isn't really ready for the direction you're going in?

hi mikazo,

i sure do have some thoughts on the subject. i have recently found myself in a country far from my own, in a very tight family unit and circle of aquaintances that is highly educated in the sciences and medicine and not at all open to discussions relating to metaphysics and esoteric topics.

most of my information on metaphysics, alternative medicine, etc. has been gleaned informally and attempting to share it with family members who love to debate using facts, figures and historical data is a lesson in humility for me that i have learned over and over again.

so, i have learned to tread carefully on this hazardous pathway, and not 'hit them over the head' with the wonderful and enlightening things that i feel they really should know about. one safe way is to ask some leading, open-ended questions (requiring more than a 'yes' or 'no' answer) that demand attention because the answers may generate some outside-the-box thinking which then leads others to come to their own conclusions that might be new to them. this can be done without actually stating your own opinion.

another method is to mention something that you may have just read or heard about, describing a particular topic in detail... without admitting that you agree or disagree. then, wait for others to say what they think about it. sometimes, i have been surprised at the responses. this approach has opened the door for some very interesting conversations.

be the one in the group who is happy, calm, peaceful, content and glowing with the knowledge that you have. people notice and will ask you about it.

meditating on the situation and sending all these skeptics lots of love and light along with visualizing them opening their hearts and minds helps a lot, too.

this is a slow process. timing is everything with some of these conversations. hope these things help. they seem to be working for me....

sharing the love and light,
nancy

[kavaTeexy]

i know this is difficult when you just want to share with the world what you feel in your heart and want to serve by giving to others, what you have found. the thought:

"i am following my path and purpose in life and i feel very good about the direction i have found"

even back in the bc days, individuals dealt with differences in opinions. who was saying, doing the "right" thing, fear of being different etc. there is no right or wrong anything, just everything moving. their couse back in 1000 bc lead them to create temples of healing and spiritual places where those "seeking" could gather and live. i guess you could say the internet or web is now the hot temple of knowledge and healing.

? wonder, is this were the church ideas started, a place to gather ? yet it has grown into much more... i know in ec readings, jesus said, you don't need a church to go to, you have a place everywhere, the open blue skies to gather.

truly, each of us are exactly were we are suppose to be. some are following 1 path to the truth, others another path, but they all lead to the same. different things speak to us differently., we have to trust what feels right for us.... and trust that the same is or will be happening to others we know.....

the fact that you guys are chatting about it.... is good....... the questions are being asked.... someone in the group is open..... ..

[9mm_fan]

i'm still finding it very difficult to relate to more scientific-minded people who are confused and/or threatened by the direction i'm going in. many of them would still very much like for me to get out of that field. the question is, is there any way to simply get along, and still maintain your truth and your path in life, without having to throw away otherwise good relationships because of an inability to agree to disagree?

this can indeed be a challenge, because the bottom line is that most people believe that if you don't think like they do, then you're just plain wrong and uneducated, and some people who think like this also believe it's their honor/duty to "save" you from the "errors" of your beliefs. most of these people are entirely convinced that they are "right" and this is extremely important to them. as acim says, most people would rather be right than happy, given a choice of one or the other.

people who notice that your belief system is different from theirs, in general, feel threatened by that, and sadly, most of them aren't even interested in your ideas. i don't have any easy answers here, but if there's some way that you could respectfully agree to disagree, i think you'd be more than halfway there.

for instance, when it comes to dealing with people like fundamental [no fun; all mental ] christians, one of my teachers once gave me a good tip, that works for many of them. his advice was to acknowledge what they were saying, (instead of blowing them off) and telling them that you understand that their religion requires them to try to "convert the nonbelievers". then explain to them that they have now fulfilled the requirements of their religion by attempting to convert you, and they can now rest easy. the few times i used this method, it worked surprisingly well. it seems that they even had a new-found respect for me, because they now see that i understand their position and kinda let them off the hook.
hope this helps.

[QuidQuoPro]

greetings
i don't think that there is any way to 'simply' get along.
there are many systems of belief. some religious,scientific,political etc. many a mixture of all these. these belief systems can be very strong. they enable people to live their lives comfortably, to feel protected,to feel a part of something. belief systems give their lives meaning.
now, someone comes along saying their system ,their beliefs, are all wrong, well......! it can start a war.
more and more people around the world are now realizing that there is something else. there is a new awareness that the old beliefs are redundant, are a distortion of the 'truth'.
i am grateful that i am one of those people.
i suggest that the 'old' belief systems are influenced and maintained by the orion group and people such as us come under the influence of groups such as the ra collective.
it is very difficult to present new ideas that threaten a belief system. it stirs up feelings of resentment, fear and insecurity. often at a subconcious level. you get a " i know what i know, leave me alone". response.
i believe many more people will come round to our way of thinking, so to speak, but many will not. many will not make it at harvest time and will have to be given further opportunities to proceed to the next stage of evolution.
these are my thoughts.

i share my love

yusuf

[Anamehuskeene]

his advice was to acknowledge what they were saying, (instead of blowing them off) ......... it seems that they even had a new-found respect for me, because they now see that i understand their position and kinda let them off the hook.
hope this helps.

i totally agree with this, yusuf, i was definelty one of those science folks, hardcore, and at certain points in my life i would have blown off any off this information. i had some major events that helped me discover it and now im fully immersed. so in alot of them deep down they are searching for that answere, thats why they want proof so bad, if they got it they would be satisfied.

what i find works (sometimes) is that you should just be yourself, and dont even hint towards your beleifs, like a dont ask dont tell policy. even if there is a heated debate on similar stuff, if noone asks your opinion dont give it. maybe if they do discover your beliefs after the fact, then they have more respect for you because you didnt barge in with your views, you sat calmly and let them talk freely with out judgement.

its hard to do but it might work in the long run. and maybe one day like myself you will be reading a law of one book and someone notices. they ask, and you be happy to tell.

hope this helps because it helped me!