[ufUUZCnc]

beloved jax and kenneths--
i'm observing within myself and outside of myself a lot of collisions of the dark and the light (polar aspects). the collisions--it's pretty traumatic out and in there--are actually seeming to be meldings (integration of the dark and light together) which seems to create a trampoline from which to jump off of into new potentials of beingness--new stories for humanity never possible before.
jax--i know it must feel like pure h-e-double toothpicks right now with your family, but just trust yourself, breathe and observe the momentum of the moment. look deeper than the surface wreck. i had to allow myself to feel and think very dark just the last couple weeks--i was overly balanced towards and holding myself to being light and being tortured. after allowing all of me in a safe space--i was alone--to let those awful, painful thoughts to pass through me and thus finally be released i suddenly saw that a lighthouse has no use in the daylight.
i was afraid of the evil within me for fear that if i allowed it to even be thought or felt would unleash something in me that would harm everyone and everything i loved or hated in the moment. i wasn't allowing myself to blame or accuse or "be a victim" and because of that i was lovingly being victimized over and over again until i finally let myself accuse--be dark, even if only in the company of myself.
compassion told me to go there, plus the understanding i came to on my own in my own way (which it will be for each and every individual) that because i saw everyone outside of me as me, i knew that to hurt anyone was to really hurt myself. all is one. thus i finally trusted my intention. i allowed myself to be dark out of love, not fear.
and miracles and joys beyond belief have been steadily happening since.
with great love, appreciation and compassion for your timely posts,
penny

[Wrencytet]

blessed dear angel penny
i loved to hear your post about the trampoline and the light and dark of your inner spiritual life.

i have been collecting the feathers of pigeons ( rock pigeons). they have beautiful greys and blacks and whites so tenderly graduated and so evenly ordered. it is amazing that such beauty exists in the discarded feather of the rock pigeon. in san miguel de allende , mexico where the statue of st. nicolas terantino is, there are many cast feathers of the pigeons which i collected . why did i collect the pigeons feathers ? each feather reminded me of a soul , a situation that st. nicolas would have prayed for . in his biography it says he was a miraculous saint who had miracles and prayed for souls who suffered. his satute in san miguel is famous because it survivied a fire and the glass eyes began to bleed tears. the tears are for the sorrow of those who suffer. i identifeid with his tears. some visionaries say they see the pain of the souls of purgatory in his eyes, still waiting for our prayers!
all this is about the entering into the darkness with the safety of prayer. thank you for your post it helped me remember that there are great vast areas of who i am that are not just black and white but are soft graduated greys and soft graduated whites and soft graduated blacks. how good to see with gentlenes and being at peace in the safety of prayer!
how wonderful to know that it is possible for new possiblities to become slowly graduatedly and safely.

[orgagsUpsepsy]

penny,

i had a similar experience yesterday, with "experiecing anger". and today, i came across to those i was angry at in the appropriate way.

background

my students took a test yesterday over fractions. i know, yuck! anyway, i thought they were all ready and prepared. the first class - bombed. the second class - aced. upon completing the grading for both classes, i became very angry at the first class because i knew the reason the students did so poorly. they goof off alot, don't pay attention, don't ask questions - basically, they don't try. and, frankly, i was mad.

usually when i start to feel anger growing, i step back and observe. typically the anger diminishes and i get a little smirk, knowing i was able to monitor my thoughts/understand the situation/control my reactions.

but, upon taking your advice, i let it fly baby! whew!

like you said though, upon experiencing the anger that i was feeling, it eventually dissipated.

this morning when i gave the tests back to the class, i was very calm and "nuturing" (i was afraid last night of how i would act this morning). eventually i "got" what i wanted - admissions that they were not taking things seriously and weren't trying.

would this have happened if i suppressed my feelings last night? i'd like to think probably not. i'd also like to think that i would have handled the situation poorly this morning.

so, thanks penny for providing your "example". its not new to me, but i have tried very hard these past months on being the calm, laid back guy, which is oh so nice. but, last night (and subsequently this morning), allowing myself to experience anger worked for me. btw - i also think that some suppressed emotions came out.

today, its all gravy. :d

i guess the moral of the story (and we should know this by now), is not to be afraid of negative emotions/anger. experience it for what it is. far better than trying to suppress/eliminate it...control...

thanks again penny.

art

[ufUUZCnc]

art--thanks so much for providing your own example. you had me going, "yeh, yep, uh-huh, totally with ya there..." all the way through your post. grin.

with my most recent "walk on the dark side" i got to thinking that the term "lightworker" to describe this journey we're on was tripping me up. i was trying to be too "spiritual."

my human part was saying, "hey--those thoughts and feelings have caused a whole lot of pain and suffering in the past. don't think them, don't feel them. that's no way to be!"

that moment of denial/avoidance began immediate construction of a looming mountain that originated out of a simple little molehill energy thought stopped mid-flow. instead of simply allowing it to flow through and be released--i had stopped it and manifested it more painful to me than it ever had to be. it could have been a simple breath in and breath out.

meanwhile, my spirit/divine/god-self was saying, "but honey--that is a way to be! one of a plethora of possibilities. simply that--no judgment. how does it feel and what thoughts are you thinking? thanks for letting me experience it wholly/holy. you know, that's why i gave myself the physical human body--to experience all that i am."

so, today i'm thinking of calling myself "the integrator" (this with the super-human comic hero stance with hands on hips, chest out).

have a great day, art and everyone! thanks again, art--it's a joy to have another person confirm the same idea with their own story of experience.

love,
penny

[bp9QxekG]

i thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts! i feel as though you have really found one of the "basic" laws. most people feel that they must be compassionate, responsible for all that ask, and be a "good" person ( mommy's little girl). you have a good sense about verbalizing your experiences and i wish you would create a journal or blog or something to collect the valuable items. not for others necessarily, but for giving yourself momentum to continue what you have found within yourself.
i try not to use any vernaculures (sp) that lean toward any particular belief system, so my posts come across as rather dry and unexciting. so many minds take the same words and carry them to many different destinations!

[Wrencytet]

i am so helped by the last comment because i too need to honor what is. it is like the talk on humility. i admitt i am not doing okay. no cover up and there is the honor of saying the truth. it is simple to be honset yes i am not okay , but because of false pride i say i am okay when i am not. i am good at lhying. that why i need to know the truth and accept it.

[Wrencytet]

i too was good at the mask and not admitting how
i felt until it came all undone . i was teaching and had to retire because i no longer could contain the anger and hostility i felt. it was a wise move for me to admitt i was unwell and needed to stop and take stock. it was better than committing an act of violence to myself or another. already i was suffering from depression( self hatred and anger) the next step was too drastic to contemplate. i appreciate that my higher self knows all this and is willing to help me . all i need do is ask! thank you for that teaching from this site. no more need to go hunting for readings and opinions from others. just ask in prayer and let it be what it is! my dad says i try too hard and i don't know when to hold back!
that speaks about my irritability and impatience. i wanted every thing yesterday. so i am most sad and dissapointed with my lot! big lesson to learn acceptance there for all my philosophical musing! it boils down to yes or no! but i l love to tell the telling so of course i complicate the issue! i told my life story to a young 25 year old spainard who has the gift of brevity. he summarized my life in three words. " it is difficult" .pure genius the spainards can be so precise in their thinking!! . i repiled even shorter, " good enough" i laughed so i can't be that sick but still ..... good enough?

[ufUUZCnc]

cedars--how very perceptive of you! i was never a disciplined journaler, but the pc opened a world of expression of that which was within me through the ease of getting my thoughts down quickly as they "hit" and then allowing me the chance to read through and simplify and clarify the impressions more fully. so writing has definitely built up the momentum in my journey. every now and then i hit "delete" to erase all of my past words and give myself a fresh blank pad to move forward with.

in the years past, if you were to meet me in person, you would have found yourself completing sentences and thoughts that i left dangling (and often in a strangely chaotic word order). i'm a fairly decent speller with a handle on grammar and word meanings, but i can slaughter word pronunciation like a pro! my head seemingly left my tongue behind.

i've since also realized that people felt safe in my company because i was highly sensitive to their emotional beingness and unconsciously accomodating myself to easing the pain i felt coming forth from them. i was reading emotions, and for a long time i had no words to match them.

have you ever wondered why you didn't speak up when you were in the presence of someone ridiculing another? people do negative things more often due to perceiving themselves in an "unlikeable, unacceptable" way and when unaware of that we try to deflect the focus from ourselves onto another. in short, the person often acting cruelly is acting out of pain. i realized i was picking up on the pain of the attacker.

i used to get so frustrated with myself for not speaking up in those situations--i felt "wrong" in not having the words to do so in the moment. until that moment of choosing compassion with myself and asking for clarity and understanding about what was really going on.

sometimes it's appropriate to "dish it back," and sometimes it's appropriate to use a less confrontive approach--and i've realized we have to trust ourselves (inner knowingness) in the moment presented as to how to go about it.

thanks again for your encouragement--i love to write!

kenneths149--keep posting--i love reading of your journey, too. it's important to share ourselves with such authenticity because it opens so many doors for so many others seeking to remember their own unique gift in being. i know it's a vulnerable act to contemplate, much less, do. yet i see so many of the people in this forum doing just that on topics of sexuality, mental illness, sports, etc.--and that's why it's growing in numbers--it reflects humanity, one by one, expanding our box of beliefs and perceptions. and that is literally changing my world.

much love,
penny

[ufUUZCnc]

a lighthouse doesn't rush out into the sea to rescue what appears to it to be a ship in dire straits. instead, it stands upon its foundation of rock, shining its own light. and lets the ship's captain determine and choose whether or not (and how) he wants or needs to save himself/herself.

this came to me this morning after an "a-ha" hit me the last couple of days. recently i made a connection between mental/emotional breakdowns and "a dark night of the soul" experience. they appear to me to be one and the same--one's most current reality illusion falls apart (disillusionment), and because we're used to believing that as a truth (that's the way life is...), it's as though the ground we've been so trustingly standing upon is ripped out from beneath our feet. and for a while we flounder and struggle and cry, paralyzed and terrified of mis-stepping--wanting to die and yet terrified of death. i've personally been through several of these dark nights of the soul throughout my life.

i have peers who were hospitalized and labelled with all kinds of "dis-eases," some of them put on medications for life. and because of my own empathy and identification with the rescuer archetype, and because they appeared to me to be floundering ships, i had been taking it upon myself to rescue them--by being their advocate general. grin.

then one of my "rescuees" honored me with running me through the paces of her act--and that's when i saw it with clarity. it was all an act for my benefit and anyone else whose life she touched with it. she's no crazier than me or anyone else. it's just her game and she's evidentally been enjoying the attention she gets through her 13 rides in the "paddy wagon," which she proclaims were no fun--but which got her some attention (which, ultimately, is what it was all about).

she is one in many rescuees to honor me this way throughout my life. can't help but laugh at myself. i've awakened a great deal thanks to all the efforts on their part--and my own. "pitying" another or oneself can be quite a journey.

have a great day, everyone!
penny

[orgagsUpsepsy]

penny,

this was a very inspiring and emotional post. thank you for sharing your experiences and perspectives. i would venture to say that alot of us have a "rescuer" mentality, and your analogy of the lighthouse was both provocative and ground-breaking for me personally - it helped me to form a new perspective on my role as a "supporter" (i.e., server of others). :d

the hardship and pain of these "dark nights of the soul", or david's "initiations" (similar?) do result in strengthening us. similar to all of the other paradoxes in life - we get taken to the breaking point only to come out stronger and better for having lived and learned from these experiences.

thank you again for sharing those inspiring words!

art

[ufUUZCnc]

hey, art!
i've always resonated with the idea of just living my own personal life and the whole lighthouse analogy (as i see many of this forum speaking of, as well)--it's a choice i've been moving towards all along. but it wasn't until this recent "a-ha" that i've actually felt the big shift of manifesting it. and this happened not only with friends, but also with my role-playing in my family.

suddenly i'm so okay with "not being needed." and i look at the past as having been a joyful game of experiencing and experimenting with so many things--and it's so easy now to laugh about--and appreciate myself and others--throughout. the pressure to prove myself worthy of being alive is off.

it's hard to explain--but it's so easy to breathe, to not take myself so darn seriously, and to enjoy all of us with a humor that's not degrading. we were all just playing together. at least, this is my perception. empathy played a huge part in keeping me attached to the various dramas. clarity helped to disengage.

as always, the shift didn't come immediately with the choice-making or intention because there were so many layers of beliefs to peel off, but it came with perfect timing...

loved reading your thoughts,
penny

[layedgebiamma]

i admire those of us who post so eloquently in these discussion groups, since i often resist the urge to speak out for fear my message will appear "dumb". that said....here i go.

regarding the dark night of the soul or health problems or anything negative that might be construed to be "bad" or something to be stringently avoided by so-called lightworkers, lately i've been realizing that the negative has its proper place in our lives because we are human. if we try to avoid our shadow self, our inner child or whatever you want to call it, it will find some way to get our attention, because we need to maintain some sort of balance between darkness and light. i have always felt that the earth and her inhabitants who caught up in duality are actually a "bridge" for the prime creator....we serve to bridge the expanse between spirit and matter so that it can learn and grow as we learn and grow through us. i feel we can't avoid the negative nor should we even try to not be who we are...bridges over troubled waters. embracing life in the moment whether good or bad is the most important goal, isn't it? l&l (and common sense) jax

[orgagsUpsepsy]

... it will find some way to get our attention, because we need to maintain some sort of balance between darkness and light.

jax -

good post! and please, don't ever "resist the urge to speak out for fear my message will appear "dumb"". i have a hard time putting my thoughts into words, however, as penny pointed out in another thread:

trust what we say in the moment knowing that ultimately we all communicate even when we think we've "failed" in the word part. with that said, in regards to "balance" i do and don't agree with this concept. in general, i agree that there has to be balance in everything - imbalance leads to conflict. in addition, i've picked up on the perspective that without "free will" (and therefore, free choice to choose negative) the entity (and hence, the one) would not have a fulfilling experience. due to this lack of experience, free will was created, and is therefore in the opinion of many, the greatest creation of all. the drama of the constant "battle" with the negative has given those seeking a positive path much spiritual enrichment... i don't remember exactly where this came from (loo-ra or quo) - someone else can help clean this up...

but your first words in the quoted phrase are very important and there is no doubt about agreement. i believe that the negative does have a place in our lives and that we must come to grips with it. learn to understand how we react to these "fears". from there, we learn to override them. or yes, they will grab our attention.

so, whether striking a balance or coming to grips/mastering our fear, the negative does have a place in the path of any spiritual seeker. and, just when we think we have mastered all of our fears, and there is nothing left but positive, a fresh new layer is revealed for us to work on.

i'd be interested in hearing your opinions on this. i think we're basically saying the same thing, just with different words...

again, good post!

art

[theonsushv]

...i believe that the negative does have a place in our lives and that we must come to grips with it. learn to understand how we react to these "fears". from there, we learn to override them. or yes, they will grab our attention... the world is probably full of exaggerated examples that can help people percieve "how it is" in ways that may be useful to them.

the saga of star wars contains a cycle: "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to pain...was that yoda? anyhow, in some context the idea of promoting illusions of separation in ways to capitalize or sustain hierarchys seems to complement the idea of concealment which can hint to the nature of the "unknown" - that having some looming uncertainty or unknown hovering over people may not tend to bring out the best in them.

my impression is that by sharing freely, of opening and reducing the extent of such concealments or illusions of separation - we as a group can grow more positive. by engaging in communication we may help one another diffuse such things as fear that leads to anger that leads to hate that leads to pain.

this may not be the best way to go into a negotiation because we play our cards out in the open, trading off our power plays for acts of community growth that may "in the larger picture", take us much further than any business deal could.

if now one is thinking where in my life could a negative influence reside - consider one's relationship to money and how that money intimately connects to the very negative elite conveniently without any hint of traceability. yes, of course there is a place for negative influence in our lives because so much of our daily life contains efforts of trade.

an impression is that some of the healing balms include simply making offerings, tithing, giving charity, allowing money to freely flow without having to rationalize profits or loss in ways preventing stagnation or congestions of energetic blockage.

by analogy, maybe opening up and writing in groups as this is a form of making offerings, of being generous as giving charity; though difficult to say.

[Wrencytet]

i appreciate the ligthe house for i received a card with a light house on it and it encouraged me.i have a niece whos suffers from schizophrenia and to her i am like a father , i am like a light house as she deals with her self. i cherish this soul very much for i , we are part of each other. i cannot rescue her i have no idea how to deal with this illness other than steady, constant, consistent being for her. even so i am limited in the time i can be with her. i share this for others in our lives who bear with difficulties that are challenging.i do not know what will be the out come for my niece or others who are suffering at this time in the new developments of evolving. i hope for miracles. i must watch and be what i can for now and in some way this situation is temporal and will change. i need to see how being steady like a light house is very real for her and to my sister her mother who sent me the light house card. thank you to all for the wisdom and gentleness of each post that encourages us. kenneths149

[ufUUZCnc]

i have one classmate who was diagnosed (labelled) as having bipolar illness and two others as having schizophrenia. i also have many friends who have been taking medication for depression.

it seems many of these initial episodes which i call dark nights of the soul are triggered by something highly traumatic to the person experiencing them--and in our society, mental illnesses have been occurring much more frequently than ever before. this suggests to me that this consciousness evolution has been a huge part of it--something which our mainstream psychology and psychiatry fields seem to have missed. our old foundation of accepted truths are falling to the side to make room for the new.

for me, the dark nights of the soul helped me go inward to find my answers and compassion and self-appreciation--i remember taking responsibility for my own life and well-being at some point within the midst of the terror of each one. and in looking back--that moment of taking responsibility for myself was the most empowering choice.

i had a chiropractor tell me ten years ago that i would "crash and burn" if i didn't complete his prescribed treatments for scoliosis (a physical and frighteningly painful manifestation of something from my past surfacing to be acknowledged, healed and released)--but i was firm in taking responsibility for my well-being. and i haven't crashed and burned yet. grin.

those that ended up in hospitals (and bless them for their contrasting experiences because i grew and learned from them in this entire process) got these mental/emotional illness labels--which they seem to then make their truth and seek to "live up to," seemingly saying "this is who i am and who i am for the rest of my life." to look into their eyes is to see and feel hopelessness and emptiness. they have a "poor me" attitude or "i have to prove that people with this illness are (i am) worthy of being." and being empathetic as all of us humans are--this is indeed quite a journey to share with another person and/or their loved ones.

with recent interactions with my friend with bipolar illness, i found the words coming out of my mouth, "you're no crazier than i am or anyone else." this was in response to her excuse, "but i am mentally ill." i realized that after i said the words, i truly believed them--she wasn't crazy. she'd been through dark nights, only she wasn't aware that she could choose whether she was going to accept someone's truth outside of her who gave her a label, or whether she was going to challenge it and take responsibility for learning to love unconditionally herself and to treat herself with compassion rather than looking for someone outside of herself to do it first--basically, to validate her beingness.

thanks, all, for all your sharing--we're not talking together to compare our abilities to put words into sentences--we're having a conversation at a round table...and i'm thoroughly enjoying our discussion and what each of you has to share. this is a pretty amazing tool david started...

with love and appreciation,
penny

[orgagsUpsepsy]

...in our society, mental illnesses have been occurring much more frequently than ever before...something which our mainstream psychology and psychiatry fields seem to have missed.

what you have written is partially correct. i would offer the perspective that in western society, with the reductionist mentality, everything can be "fixed with a pill'. this led to a pharmaceutical revolution, in which doctor's prescribe government approved poisons to people, which have limited effectiveness, and usually create more problems than they were designed to "solve". so, whether or not it is in fact occuring much more could be correltated to sales of medication, correct?

i have the courage to admit that i have gone through the "pill" route several times - post traumatic stress disorder, depression, and anxiety (pretty much all tied together from the unexpected death of my mother and subsequent difficulties in life during those 5 years of grieving). i've often been told that during those times on medication, i was devoid of any emotion. so, while they were slightly effective at countering depression or anxiety, they also destroyed any ability for compassion, joy, and even the negative emotions like grief. i often felt like a "robot" that was living a "prescribed lifestyle". there was no desire to explore, no sense adventure in life. without these desires, i had no appreciation for the beauty of each day, no sense of the infinite possibilities that each day brings.

since those struggles i've come to realize the importance of understanding "stimuli that produce stress" and how stress can manifest negatively:

- depression (i could be diagnosed with seasonal affective disorder - the midwest is notorious for three straight months of gray skies during winter; living in the mountains of western nc, the winters are filled with many more sunny days, so thats a simple solution to a "problem that i discovered was recurrent :d )

- anxiety (being overwhelmed at work - "working a job i hated to buy s@*t i don't need - changing careers from engineering to teaching has brought me the personal and professional satisifcation that i craved, that i needed to be successful. if you don't feel this way about your job, you should really consider changing careers - i know its difficult and uncertain, but you'd be amazed at how your life will change!)

stress can be channeled into positive energy though. don't run from stress, learn to master it. if you know someone who could use a "shift in perception", maybe this could help (although i do not suggest anyone abruptly stop taking medication!).

we as a society need to accept the fact that the american medical system is dominated by pharmaceutical companies that make tidy profits from ordinary people taking their drugs. their greed reigns supreme, with the welfare of the people a distant second. now i'm making a gross generalization here, so please don't be offended - there are many good people out there thinking they are doing the right thing, and in fact, many are.

i once heard that 60 million americans are taking medication for depression. that is 1/5th of the population. and if 1/5th of americans were experiencing life the way i did while taking antidepressants, no wonder this country has so many issues. apathy abounds. there is no desire to enrich one's life, they have been labeled, and fall into the victim mentality.

these companies have a reductionist viewpoint, which, while effective at understanding alot of things, does not reveal the whole picture. in all derivatives of "reductionism", the "holistic" (unified, no separation) approach is beginning to take hold due to better results. general healthcare is becoming more integrated - soon it shall be so with "mental illness" as well. i am a strong advocate of lifestyle change - diet and exercise, in addition to meditation, for treating depression and anxiety. understanding who you are and how you work are very helpful in understanding why certain stimuli create stress, and ultimately, one can come to control how they react to stress.

i remember taking responsibility for my own life and well-being at some point ... looking back--that moment of taking responsibility for myself was the most empowering choice.

she'd been through dark nights, only she wasn't aware that she could choose whether she was going to accept someone's truth outside of her who gave her a label, or whether she was going to challenge it and take responsibility for learning to love unconditionally herself and to treat herself with compassion rather than looking for someone outside of herself to do it first--basically, to validate her beingness.
well said! simply beautiful. thank you for having the courage to write about a "topic" that most people shy away from. this is a very real issue that we'll have to solve at some point. i'm afraid that if 1/5th of the american population is under the "spell" of "mind-altering" drugs, they have no choice, no free will to participate in the spiritual revolution of oneness... these drugs change neurochemistry and may have the potential to block incoming energies...

similar to the analogy of sunlight exposure: the threat of skin cancer and subsequent decrease in exposure has created more problems through vitamin d deficiency, which can lead to cancers throughout the body. in the end, the view that we should limit exposure has hurt more people than it has helped. i propose that in the following years, we will also come to the same conclusion with many medications, up to and including antidepressants, etc.

i look forward to continuing the conversation.

art

[ufUUZCnc]

art--this is wonderful!!! and, yes, we are on the same wavelength. the reason i didn't bring up the pill-fixer-upper approach is because, as you said, so many people are on them--and often to have a person cut themselves off cold-turkey can catapult them into the deepest depression ever.

i don't recommend anyone doing it cold turkey. and if they choose to go off medications, please practice the most compassionate approach with oneself which is to wean oneself off slowly with someone you trust who is aware of your intentions. icy, cold showers get people to breathe and become aware of breathing.

i recommend choosing to be responsible for one's own well-being first and then to become aware of and to practice with the tools they have within themselves and around them that don't cost a thing and are easily accessible and simple. some of the tools i came across were: breathing consciously, sunshine and nature, practicing self-compassion in place of self-monitoring (negative talk), reminding oneself that life is a gift and we each have a loving purpose in being here in all ways, choosing clarity and letting go of trying to analyze it to death or figure out the answer, the freedom to make choices even when by all appearances we may feel imprisoned (the soul and spirit cannot be taken over unless we choose--unconsciously or consciously--to give it over to someone else). these are only a few that come to mind--along with all the excellent ones you also spoke of, art.

when i had "issues" coming up to be healed, i found that i had the supportive consciousness in place prior--that's why they came up when they did. otherwise, as in the case of my childhood experiences, the issues were suppressed/repressed until i was much older and could walk my inner child through the fear and pain with the tools and compassion of my more enlightened adult. i spent a lot of time with the lady/child in the mirror, hugging myself in comfort, allowing everything felt and perceived to be emptied from my being in the safe space i created just for me.

thanks for sharing your experiences regarding the use of antidepressants--i have friends who have shared with me, too, that they felt "flat-lined" on them--they couldn't cry nor could they find that peak of joy either. thank you so much, art!

i am truly honored to have this visit...
penny

[theonsushv]

...thanks for sharing your experiences regarding the use of antidepressants--i have friends who have shared with me, too, that they felt "flat-lined" on them--they couldn't cry nor could they find that peak of joy either... i think that antidepressants were a factor of divergence that wedged my marriage apart, my ex-spouse so easily bought into them as feeling better able to manage "out of control panic attacks" as trade off to such emotional numbness. the observation of that helped me to choose otherwise, i.e. with a meditation practice and a high nutrient vitamin regime - thanks for that.
(note that pantothentic acid vitamin b5, is known to help people manage stress.)

recently i met a person who grew up in an "antidepressant family" - had taken them from a young age until a point where smoking pot helped to wean off of them, then found a faith in christ which helped to wean off the pot, as if a progression of substitutions. this person is very grateful to have been able to disengage from the antidepressants, it amazes me to witness how much grace flows with such sense of gratitude and so much prayer energy.

[orgagsUpsepsy]

this person is very grateful to have been able to disengage from the antidepressants, it amazes me to witness how much grace flows with such sense of gratitude and so much prayer energy.

soup,

thank you for sharing that experience. you "witnessed" first hand how destructive these medications can be. i liked your quoted phrase, for when i finally accepted responsibility, accountability, for "learning to cope" (as penny mentions), i too have been grateful for having finally gained the wisdom and strength to learn these lessons so many take for granted. you mentioned prayer energy and one of my favorities is:
god grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change;
courage to change the things i can; and wisdom to know the difference. although i won't profess to be a strong christian in the religious sense, i have built my spiritual foundation on these teachings and some of the "basic prayers" such as the serenity prayer. however, my spiritual needs were never met with the fear-based and separation message found in so many churches. i often converse with a strong christian about oneness, and one of my main "talking points" is that jesus "set the standard". in other words, don't focus solely on the crucifiction; keep in mind that jesus "lived a life of love". and, it is from here that we begin to agree on the main "concepts" - love and service to others. :d

kinda went off on a tangent there. i would venture to say that many people who are taking these medications are not "in touch with the spirit" of their mind/body/spirit complex (remember, we are mainly talking antidepressants here). in my experience, i traded the prescriptions and materialistic addictions, which never filled the void, for the pursuit of spiritual reconnection, which has. and, for beginning to achieve a sense of wholeness, i am truly grateful. :d

again, thanks for sharing your experiences.

art