[heilyprollecyspor]

Thanks for your reply..

well right now i got a general question..

ive been reading alot of the stories of you and others in this forum about their OBE experiences but alot seem to sound like dreams or Lucid dreams..is it maybe becos alot is just really a dream ? or is it becos the projector is not 100 % concious so a litle in a dream state while projecting ?or somehow the astral world is so thought sensitive it creates things just like it does in our dreams?..

i'd like to hear your point of view as to me u seem like the most experienced person in OBE besides Robert Bruce him self

[Hammaduersnes]

I'm not the most experienced- I just participate more.

A dream is a projection into a personal region of the astral, given form by your subconscious mind.
A lucid dream is a projection into this region, in which you become conscious. When you become conscious, you can maneuver out of your personal space into the collective space in the astral, and interact with others.
This is why we can have precognitive dreams and shared dreams- because all are projections.
A conscious OBE is a projection of your conscious mind in which you experience the separation into the etheric (aka Real Time Zone). Most OBEs are into the collective scenarios, so that what you encounter is much more objectified/collectivized than what you encounter in a 'regular' dream.
An unconscious OBE is a projection of your conscious mind that happens when you are asleep (that is, the exit is missed) and you 'wake up' in the RTZ and realize where you are because your conscious mind is involved. The difference between the unconscious (aka spontaneous) OBE and a lucid dream is that the OBE usually happens in the collective part of the astral, and the lucid dream happens in the personal part of the astral.
Before you ask, Robert (and I) consider all states of nonphysicality 'the astral' (or 'the energetic') and consider the 'etheric' a subset of the astral.
For more information, read the Treatise on Astral Projection by Robert Bruce.

[JohnMaltczevitch]

or somehow the astral world is so thought sensitive it creates things just like it does in our dreams? Bingo.

Like CFT said, all of these different types of experiences(obe/astral projections, lucid dreams, dreams) occur in very similar levels of experience. The main difference is the methods of perception utilized by the explorer. I used to write my obes off as dreams before I realized the nature of the astral is no different from what we experience in dreams.

[heilyprollecyspor]

Hmmm yes i see..

But the only 2 OBE's i had i was as concious as i am now and everythign looked excactly the same as i see things now..i dont wanna be too sceptical but im trying to separate the dreams from the real OBE experience..my 2 OBE's were in the real time zone not the astral so probably thats why they were like 100 % like the real world,also they lasted not longer then a minute lol but some people talk about projections in their own bedroom but say everything looked different and stuff so that stuff kinda reminds me alot of dreams i had and they felt alot different then the 2 concious OBE's i had...ofcourse im sure if one goes to the AStral Planes then nothing is as this reality anymore ofcourse..


I'm just trying to understand it all and learn..

[Hammaduersnes]

Hmmm yes i see..

I'm just trying to understand it all and learn..

The link I gave you explains all this in detail- more specific look for the 'Alice in Wonderland' effect in it.

[heilyprollecyspor]

Originally Posted by UfoAfterlight Hmmm yes i see..

I'm just trying to understand it all and learn..

The link I gave you explains all this in detail- more specific look for the 'Alice in Wonderland' effect in it. I just read the "Alice in Wonderland" effect..and that has clarified alot for me..thanks!