[Olphander]

Something that I've contemplated, though indeed it does take a back seat to actual experience, in the language we use in describing and understanding OBEs, Astral Projections and the many phenomenon associated with it.
What I mean, is that though most universally minded thinkers in the field concede that these phenomena are ancient and a part of all cultures and spiritual traditions, they stay within a very modern and western vantage point. I have only seen the occasional attempt to connect them with certain Hindu or Tibetan Buddhist terms. Sometimes one gets decriptions of OBEs in holy texts and spiritual figures.
Though language shouldn't be important, it can be when one set of terms takes precedent over all others. I sometimes want to know the terms from my own tradition. It's not just about nuances, it's about words carrying means and associations that are important. For example, someone from the Cherokee tribe or a Hassidic Jew might have these experiences, but be alienated from the OBE community because they have their own way of describing and understanding it.
The history of many of these terms and concepts are modern and associated with the Theosophic, Occult and New Age movements. I think a noble task at some point both for individuals and someone with the time and resources, would be to study in depth OBEs and how terms and concepts from various traditions and cultures might overlap and differ.
Just something that has been on my mind.
Cheers,
Azeem

[Hammaduersnes]

Hey Azeem.
When theosophy coined the terminology for a lot of the metaphysical disciplines, they did it on the basis of what they learned from eastern traditions, mainly, but not restricted to, Hindu metaphysics. The problem with some of this is that this approach carried religious and spiritual baggage, and also since the theosophists established these systems westerners changed the way we look at some of these theories and classifications.
So what we ended up getting was a small group of people schooled and versed in these specific doctrines, and everyone else. When latter experiencers decided to change the way they described their experiences, not based on religion or specific spiritual philosophies, we ended up with two almost different systems to describe a series of experiences that in my opinion are more uniform than different.
Various people have attempted to reconcile these terms/experiences/approaches, and I think if you stick around long enough you may find the correspondeces you seek. For example, Robert has described a scenario that is reminiscent of the traditional theosophical/Hindu map of the planes, but in contemporary energetic language, and Tempest and I wrote a correspondent article which compares Monroe's focus levels, for example, with Robert's system.
Aunt Clair, in her site River of Enlightenment (and here, since she is a long standing member) has numerous posts which compare the Mystical Jewish system of Kabbalah with the energy body structures (Stones) of Hermeticism, and in other articles she has compared how stones are formed around the Chakra system.
In other words, the information has been extensively referenced and cross-referenced- the thing is to find the information and put it all together in a comprehensive single 'concordance'.
Perhaps you're the right person to put this all together?
I'll be glad to point you at some of this information.

[Olphander]

Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply.
One issue this raises for me, and I know this might get thorny, is that there is a presumption that religions/spiritual paths are mostly dogmatic and archaic, and I've found this to be more often than not simplistic in my own experience. Especially in the mystical strands of the great religions, spiritual development is in full bloom, as it always has been.
One of my mentors once told me to be like a tree whos roots are firmly planted in your own tradition and culture, but with taproots branched out to all people.
To concretize this a little, I was born and raised Muslim, in a mutli racial and multi religious family. My father is Punjabi, my mother is Irish and in addition to Muslims I have many Christian and Sikh family members. I find the stories and traditions of Islam meaningful in my spiritual life. I learn from friends of all faiths and non faith perspectives.
The symbols I grew up with are more than a dogma, they are a way of naming and seeing, much like the language one speaks based on where they were born.
I grew up hearing about the Prophet's heavenly journey, and the many mystics who followed in his path and had their own spiritual journey, or Mir'aj into the multitude of heavenly relams and worlds.
I heard of the Latifs, or subtle energy points on the body that make up the energetic system of the human.
This personal example is only to illustrate the vast ocean available across the globe. When I began having OBE experiences it was difficult to take on a whole new vocabulary when I knew that there were terms of Arabic, Farsi, Urdu, Punjabi, Hindi and other languages close to me that described the same thing. I know the same can be applied to others who value Aramaic, Sanskrit, Bali, Chinese, Japanese, Hebrew etc etc etc.
I in no way think that the system we have is inadequate. I would not condemn it because it is important. People like Robert Monroe, Robert Bruce and their predecessors have done so much, and I am very grateful to them.
I don't know if I am the one to take on this task. If anything, I would like to do it with others deeply immersed in their own paths. Perhaps a compilation of OBE related vocabulary, annecdotes, stories and scriptural references from various traditions and cultures. I could see this becoming quite encyclopedic in length. I would appreciate any informaton you could share. Thanks and I look forward to seeing what others have to say.
Azeem

[Hammaduersnes]

Before I do the research and barrage you with links, (not today I've got to get off the computer) I just wanted to clarify that when I said 'dogma' I didn't mean 'rules'- I meant 'description of reality based on religious or contemporary thought.' For example, the idea of astral planes the theosophists had is compared to the idea that the earth is flat (which is not a right comparison, I agree, but it is the one most westeners have) and that astral planes were physically stacked on top of each other in a hierarchical position- nowadays we don't think that way, or 'believe' that way- we speak of range of physicality, or focus of awareness, or frequency shifting, or degree of psychological distance- terms that make more sense to us as people of our time-but describe the same (or same enough) experience; until of course some other person makes another discovery about the universe and the model changes- and so will our descriptive vocabulary when it does.
I didn't mean archaic as 'wrong' or 'outmoded'. More like less and less comprehensible.
So hurry up and write that article- for the young ones that come after us.
Tomorrow I'll try to give you a bunch of links, have fun.
Cheers.

ps. Here's the first one.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10282

[Hammaduersnes]

Here's another one: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=324

[Olphander]

Wow, thank you very much! This is exactly what I was talking about. This is very helpful.

[Hammaduersnes]

You're welcome. There's more (much more) but I won't be able to get to it 'til next week (probably) as we have a holiday over here (in the States) and I'll have houseguests this weekend.

[megasprut]

Today that is possible with the help of translators and the internet one can read ancient sacred texts in their own native language . We are all one . We all migrated out of Africa the Cradle of Civilization . The Vedic Literature is online in English , that would be a great start.

Sacred-texts: Vedas
Sacred Texts of Hinduism; complete translation of the Rig-Veda, transcribed Sanskrit Rig-Veda, Max Mullers' translation of the Upanishads, the Bhaghavad ...
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/