[aparneioninny]

Hey all,

I have a borrowed copy of Astral Dynamics and have been working on attaining a conscious exit projection for a little over a month now.

I attempt projection fairly regularly, but I seem that have a major problem calming my mind
I can push thoughts away for a few seconds but usually they end up coming back and distracting me.
My biggest problem is the fact that I always hear music. A random song, that just refuses to stop playing.
I do my best to do the concentration exercises, and maybe I'm improving it's hard to tell.

So, I was practicing the trance state which I usually follow up with a projection attempt.
As usual my mind was busy at work, despite my best efforts with breath awareness and what not.
So when I put myself into the trance state I literally make myself feel like I'm falling. I basically almost push downwards without using my muscles (it seems to work but is this effective?).
Then I seem to get these little eye rushes very quickly, it feels like my whole eyes is twitching involuntarily, but it happens very quickly and usually during my sensation induction. This couldn't be REM motion could it?
Then today something unusual happened.
I began to feel very lethargic, and I figured maybe I should let myself drift a little while trying to keep the falling motion going.
Then all of a sudden it was like I hit something I felt a short but intense rush, and I saw a burst of color/pattern, I believe its called hypnogogic imagery, it almost felt like I was falling.
Then I began to think that for the first time I was in a noticeable trance. So I tried to continue the falling motion and clear my mind, but my mind seemed different. It didnt want to obey, my thinking felt more clear but at the same time more distant. I could still hear music, which I tried to tune out.
So then I let my eyes roll around loosely under my eye lids and this quick jolt falling sensation happened a few more times.
Then I tried to start a ROPE exit technique.
Every time I have done the ROPE nothing seems to have happened.
I might not be using my awarness hands when I climb, I may just be visualizing myself climbing rather than feeling it.
When I actually force myself to feel it, I get a weird chest rush sensation, that feels very good. This is almost identical to my falling sensation.
But I usually cannot get anymore sensations while doing an exit technique.

So basically.
1. Was I in a trance state?
2. What was the rush/fall sensation with the hypnogogic imagery?
3. Is my problem with exit techniques usuals

Thanks much!!

[CedssypeEdids]

I attempt projection fairly regularly, but I seem that have a major problem calming my mind
I can push thoughts away for a few seconds but usually they end up coming back and distracting me.
My biggest problem is the fact that I always hear music. A random song, that just refuses to stop playing.
I do my best to do the concentration exercises, and maybe I'm improving it's hard to tell.

Don't push.

The secret to one-pointed concentration is letting the distractions drop away, not trying to force your mind, not trying to push your thoughts away, not being in control. Put the lid on a kettle of boiling water. What does the steam? Build pressure!

Have an attitude of equanimity towards your monkey mind. Allow it to be, but don't get engrossed in it. Repeat a mantra, or focus on your breath. Whenever the mind wanders, bring it gently(!) back to what you concentrate on. Don't push. Don't chastise yourself. Don't dwell of any kind of "failure". Be patient, accepting and persistent.

Fighting the mind turns any mental exercise into a battle. Is fighting really calm?

Then I seem to get these little eye rushes very quickly, it feels like my whole eyes is twitching involuntarily, but it happens very quickly and usually during my sensation induction. This couldn't be REM motion could it?

Could be. Does it feel relaxed or tense?

Then today something unusual happened.
I began to feel very lethargic, and I figured maybe I should let myself drift a little while trying to keep the falling motion going.
Then all of a sudden it was like I hit something I felt a short but intense rush, and I saw a burst of color/pattern, I believe its called hypnogogic imagery, it almost felt like I was falling.
Then I began to think that for the first time I was in a noticeable trance.

I'd rather say: *deeper* trance...

So I tried to continue the falling motion and clear my mind, but my mind seemed different. It didnt want to obey, my thinking felt more clear but at the same time more distant. I could still hear music, which I tried to tune out.

At this stage of your development you're not in control of your mind, and no brute force will grant you "control" either. "Obeying" and "clearing the mind" seem not like appropriate approaches.

When you feel your mind already as being distant, why not take your awareness elsewhere, *away* from the mind or better: anywhere! Focussing on the mind fuels it with awareness energy, right when you eased the connection between awareness and thinking for the time. instead of worrying about the song playing and that you "still" can hear the thoughts somewhere results might have been better if you went for an exit technique right away.

So then I let my eyes roll around loosely under my eye lids and this quick jolt falling sensation happened a few more times.
Then I tried to start a ROPE exit technique.
Every time I have done the ROPE nothing seems to have happened.

Use another technique. Wiggling out or swaying might help. There are lots.

Take good care,
Oliver

[ebBPxIai]

I have the same problem with clearing my mind. I have talked to CF and others on this and as of yet, even though I understand what they are saying, I am not able to stop this. My mind will just pop from one thought to another with no sense or reason. Even if I try to focus on breathing or ear sound, I still have thoughts flying. It is very frustrating!! I know it is hindering me in projecting (have not had a projection since January). I often have a song in my head also that will just keep repeating.

When I do feel myself focusing and trying to go into a trance I get the eye movement "twitching" thing also. I just try to ignore this. I then will feel the "eye falling" or pressure in my eyes (don't know what this is). In my case it will start causing pain in my temples to the extent that I am then focused on the pain and stop any further attempt to OBE. I have also talked to CF on this. I know it is not tension in my eyes (muscles) I am completely relaxed.

I have come to the conclusion that I am trying too hard, I am going to reread Astral dynamics and information in here more thoroughly. Hopefully I will find the problem, if I do I will post it. Until then I say just keep trying and experimenting. It is great when you do OBE!!

[CedssypeEdids]

I have the same problem with clearing my mind. I have talked to CF and others on this and as of yet, even though I understand what they are saying, I am not able to stop this. My mind will just pop from one thought to another with no sense or reason. Even if I try to focus on breathing or ear sound, I still have thoughts flying. It is very frustrating!! I know it is hindering me in projecting (have not had a projection since January). I often have a song in my head also that will just keep repeating.

If you observe closely, you will see that you are in fact not in control of your mind. That's a very simple fact obtained by observing your "monkey mind". In fact, you are not your thoughts, and when you look very very closely, you are not thinking them. They arise and fall away and we assign importance to them, try to build an ego identity out of them, like building a house on sand.

This is the understanding of many meditation traditions, and for me it is also based in personal experience through meditation.

In an uncontrolled, undisciplined state of mind your awareness fuels random parts of your mind and thinking circuits with energy. Unwanted thoughts arise and go because awareness is unfocused, not present, diluted and all over the place. The problem is not thinking itself, which is merely a tool, but unwanted, compulsive and habitual thinking.

Many "mind control" techniques suggest you can "quiet your mind" by an approach of willing it into stillness. But in my experience a tense mind just builds pressure and the problem returns. It's like keeping a lid on a boiling kettle - steam builds up and then something must happen, inevitably.

Note that many techniques of calming the mind don't work by trying to overpower the mind with willpower. Quite the opposite! Focussing on the breath or on a mantra work only with gentleness. Instead of forcing yourself to the mantra or the breath you gently guide your awareness again and again back to your object of choice. It is unnecessary that this leads to immediate stilling of thoughts, quite often for habitual thinking it just starts to lessen it.

In fact, the way this works is that over time your awareness starts to deeply appreciate the object of attention, and focuses gently and relaxedly, on its own accord. Distractions drop away, thoughts cease, you become focused and still. It is more like a grace than something you can ultimately control. You lead the horse to the trough, but the horse needs to feed. By untraining the habits of the mind the mind develops this concentrated awareness, and nothing in the world can rush it.

Try to develop an attitude of equanimity towards your thoughts. See them neutrally, without assigning importance to them. Focus on the breath and let the thoughts be. If they arise, they arise. No big deal. And if they enthrall your mind, use the moment you become aware of that to gently bring your awareness back. No need to "cry over spilt milk". In concentration training you will stray thousands and thousands times, better learn now that assigning drama to that simple, absolutely unavoidable fact just blocks progress in learning concentration. Going in worry/chastising loops of "I thought! Damn, I thought again! Damn, this mind will never be still!" is a sure-fire way to never get a calm mind.

Take good care,
Oliver

[Keyclenef]

Something to add:
Since I have this problem from time to time (not as often as I did) I found that if I can objectify my thoughts and then look around them they lose their importance and I don't build this ego-identity (as Oliver aptly put it) around it. Then they fall away on their own.
It's an adaptation to a technique phasers use to stay in the Void, and it works for me.

[aparneioninny]

Well some news to report.

I'm frequently feeling these dropping/rush sensations when I do my trance work.
I can feel my "mind" or state of being change after these.
I'm guessing it denotes that I'm dropping further into trance.

I feel very close to being able to exit, I have some weird intuition that I will be able to get out soon.

Also after I felt these feelings, I've notice that my awareness when I do PD loosening exercises becomes... more aware =]
I could imagine how the air felt, and I felt like I had a body outline.

Then I got another wierd sensation.
It was like my heart started "pounding" but not quickly it was a slow THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP.
With a small energy rush.
I wasn't sure it was my physical heart, because I don't think I could feel it physically.
This isnt the fabled heart rush is it?
Also I felt no vibrations or room spinning.
Also are the room spins simmilar to feeling like you are flipping around and tossing back and forth?

[Keyclenef]

Everything you describe sounds right.

Then I got another wierd sensation.
It was like my heart started "pounding" but not quickly it was a slow THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP.
With a small energy rush.
I wasn't sure it was my physical heart, because I don't think I could feel it physically.
This isnt the fabled heart rush is it?

Could be, probably. Was it like fast pounding, or like machinery on your chest?

Also I felt no vibrations or room spinning. You don't always feel vibrations, but heart chakra sensations sometimes are audible (like a ratatat) and/or vibrations are felt. These are all preprojection sensations, and show you were close. Very close.

Also are the room spins simmilar to feeling like you are flipping around and tossing back and forth? Exactly. Can be back and forth, side to side, or any other combo.

[aparneioninny]

Well CFT,

The sensation was audible, but it was very slow and powerful like machinery.

So, I sometimes get these room spinning feelings when I just lie down, and focus.
Couldn't these just be vertigo?

Well, with these I might try to "surf" out like you suggested.
So are these exit sensations?
Because sometimes I just randomly get them.

Hmm, I'll look at more methods out of AD,

Does anyone have personal favorite exit techniques?

[Keyclenef]

Well CFT,

The sensation was audible, but it was very slow and powerful like machinery.

Sounds like the very end of exit vibrations.

So, I sometimes get these room spinning feelings when I just lie down, and focus.
Couldn't these just be vertigo? They could, and if you suffer from any kind of balance problem they can be vertigo. However, I don't suffer from vertigo, and on the occassion I'll feel spinning when I lay down, and when I do, I usually have a spontaneous projection when I go to sleep, making me think that they are connected. Maybe you're half-dislocated already, and going to sleep slowly facilitates the separation when that happens, although not frequently.
Well, with these I might try to "surf" out like you suggested. I would if I were you.

Does anyone have personal favorite exit techniques? My techs depend on the exit symptoms I get, but the 'swing out' was my fave when I used to get them.