[tyclislavaify]

A good day to everybody! I’ve been trolling the forums for awhile now, just reading here n there and
I’ve finally decided to join the forums.

ATM I’m reading Treatise and Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce and might I say his theories are
astonishing. I've known about AP for about 8 years now, with no real success. Wherever I go, I would
continuously find AP teachers who would seem to know all the answers but would always be
contradicting themselves. It really discouraged and disappointed me. But reading Astral Dynamics
was mind blowing, finally being able to really have a grasp of what AP is, to finally have a more solid
foundation. Even the whole approach to AP, the experiments and hypothesis, something clicked
inside of me that I just can’t explain. And now I’m more dedicated to APing than ever.

During the 8 years that I’ve known about AP I’ve been practising occasionally and so far I’ve felt the
vibrations, sometimes dizziness and even another body inside of me, possibly, I don’t know. But I
could never AP. I’m speculating that my relaxation skills aren’t up to notch so I’m gonna try practise
that a bit more and hopefully one day AP.

There’s one question I’d like to ask though, a lot of the times when I’m attempting to induce OBE, I
would end up sitting there for around 3 hours, although for me it only feels like an hour at max. Is it
because I’m in a meditation state or is it because I’m not remembering my OBE? Sometimes I begin
to fall asleep without knowing and I would feel a shock instantly that would mentally wake me up.

I’m not meaning to tell my life story or anything but I’m a real science freak but before anything else,
I am first and foremost a spiritual person and it has been that way for as long as I can remember.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I feel like I’m missing something

Thx for reading
-Hibby

[Keyclenef]

A good day to everybody! I’ve been trolling the forums for awhile now, just reading here n there and
I’ve finally decided to join the forums.

G'day to you too. I'm glad you did.

ATM I’m reading Treatise and Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce and might I say his theories are
astonishing. I've known about AP for about 8 years now, with no real success. Wherever I go, I would
continuously find AP teachers who would seem to know all the answers but would always be
contradicting themselves. It really discouraged and disappointed me. But reading Astral Dynamics
was mind blowing, finally being able to really have a grasp of what AP is, to finally have a more solid
foundation. Even the whole approach to AP, the experiments and hypothesis, something clicked
inside of me that I just can’t explain. And now I’m more dedicated to APing than ever.

During the 8 years that I’ve known about AP I’ve been practising occasionally and so far I’ve felt the
vibrations, sometimes dizziness and even another body inside of me, possibly, I don’t know. But I
could never AP. I’m speculating that my relaxation skills aren’t up to notch so I’m gonna try practise
that a bit more and hopefully one day AP. It sounds like you've gotten quite close to projecting indeed, if the vibrations are exit sensations and the dizziness are energy body loosening, which is what it sounds like.
There’s one question I’d like to ask though, a lot of the times when I’m attempting to induce OBE, I
would end up sitting there for around 3 hours, although for me it only feels like an hour at max. Is it
because I’m in a meditation state or is it because I’m not remembering my OBE? Sometimes I begin
to fall asleep without knowing and I would feel a shock instantly that would mentally wake me up. It could be either. It sounds to me like you may be clicking out and it seems that three hours is too much. Do you find that the three hours include relaxation, energy raising, meditative practices and trance induction techniques, or just meditation/trance per se? This would give me an indication of what your problem may be, even though right off it sounds to me like you're clicking out.
I’m not meaning to tell my life story or anything but I’m a real science freak but before anything else,
I am first and foremost a spiritual person and it has been that way for as long as I can remember.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... I feel like I’m missing something

Thx for reading
-Hibby If you don't mind, I'd like a bit more info, like what exactly is your routine for projection practice?
Thanks, CF.

[tyclislavaify]

Wow thanks for the warm welcome CF.
It could be either. It sounds to me like you may be clicking out and it seems that three hours is too much. Do you find that the three hours include relaxation, energy raising, meditative practices and trance induction techniques, or just meditation/trance per se? This would give me an indication of what your problem may be, even though right off it sounds to me like you're clicking out. ahah well when I have these OBE sessions I'm usually planning a 30 min thing but sometimes it
would seem like I'll miss the chance to project if I stop so I'll just keep going, thinking that it’s not
even in the hour yet. Only to realise when I'm all worn out that 3 hours has passed!!!

Ummm during these sessions I would start from relaxation to trance then to move my point of
consciousness, at this point I would feel vibrations but nothing would happen. So I’ll repeat the
cycle; relax, trance, etc. I'm not so fond of the energy raising part yet, I’m still new to it and I’ve read
it isn't necessary for real time projection.

If you don't mind, I'd like a bit more info, like what exactly is your routine for projection practice?
Thanks, CF. My current routine for OBE is every night before I go to sleep and in the morning if I don’t have any
plans.

Oh and btw I forgot to mention my body would feel distorted, like my hands were facing up when
they're actually facing down. Especially during the dizziness phase my whole body would feel like its
slanted at angles even upside down! Although it’s really exciting, I can force myself to stay calm until
the stage when my heart would race, I’ve read this is the heart chakra doing its business.

It’s absolutely crazy! I’ve read like a zillion stories on AP and they all sound so casual, I feel like if I
could AP I would shamelessly lie outstretched on the floor with a big smile on my face for at least an
hour like a boy who’s fallen in love for the first time then my sister/brother/mates would have to
pour a bucket of cold water over my face only to have no effect.

Anyways..... I've searched everywhere but I can't seem to find any info on what it’s like to be fully
100% relaxed, are you still meant to be able to feel the chair you're sitting on?

-Hibby

[Keyclenef]

Well, fully relaxed is not the same as numb, if that's what you're asking.
A few thoughts:
There is a notion that you have to lose all awareness of your body to be able to OBE. This is not true for me, and I belive many people lose opportunities for projection because they are waiting to lose body awareness and frankly I don't think this is necessary. It can be a side effect of trance but not always, and not necessary.
Energy raising is not strictly necessary but it provides things that make projection easier and last longer- first of all it teaches you (energy work in general) what the energy body feels like so you can maneuver easier when you have an RTZ separation and it helps with having enough energy to stay awake for the proceedings, which may or may not be an issue for you.
It sounds to me that you are waiting for 'negative input'- that is waiting for something not to happen (loss of something) to know when to attempt an exit technique-when perhaps what you should be looking for positve input- that is sensations other than vibrations to tell you when it's time to try an exit technique. You have already had some of those, but they seem to not be enough for you, so you need to take your trance further- so I recommend that when you've done all your preliminaries (relaxation) (energy raising(I don't recommend energy work as part of your exit attempt but the full body circuit is perfectly ok as part of your early relaxation technique) more relaxation (breathwork), trance induction, energy body loosening (which is an offshoot of energy work, which is why I recommend doing it anyway at another time), and trancework again. When you think you're in trance, if you're feeling detachment (which is what it sounds like what you described) move to an exit technique like waterski or something gentle like that. If it doesn't work, don't go back to the beginning- keep your trancework to keep you in MABA, and try rope (which is a rough way to externalize the energy body, and should be done 'long enough'). If you still can't then maybe it's time to try some of the other stuff I do, which consists of 'listening to your earhiss' or waiting for visuals and asking them for help. This can be scary and I don't recommend it to a beginner.
If at the point that you're having visuals and energy body loosening you're still not separating, roll off or try to sit up and get up off the bed 'the old fashioned way'- you may as well float away. If you get up physically, you know you needed more trance work.
Good luck and I hope this helps.

[tyclislavaify]

Oh great thanks, I was just a few pages from the ROPE technique in treatise. I've just finished
reading it, and wow only 15 mins? sounds really exciting, I'm gonna try that now. I'll get back to
you soon.


-Hibby

[Keyclenef]

Only 15 minutes for Robert. I have had it work in 5 and another time I pulled on that thing for a whole hour before it got me out. All this stuff is very dependent on the person and how they're doing that day.

[tyclislavaify]

Well, still nothing yet, gonna refine my techniques abit, although I'm abit time limited atm.

-Hibby