[uniopaypamp]

This will probably seem like old news to many of you but I wanted to share an awareness I recently had, and ask some questions about how it all ties in to ones faith.. Historically I have always faced my OBE's with fear as I could not control when they happened. I have been working very hard to overcome this and with great difficulty.
The other night as I felt one coming on, I talked myself thru the fear and A wave of peacefulness washed over me that I cannot explain. It was at that moment that I realized my travels would take me higher than I had ever gone before by just letting go of the fear. I feel that my new realization of OBE's has forever changed my views on life and death, religion, and existence. It's hard to put aside ideas taught to you as child, but I feel that in many ways I have progressed far ahead of those I know who are still trapped in old mindsets. It's one thing to have faith in life after death, but quite another thing to be able to say "I know without a shadow of a doubt" Have any of you struggled with your religious beliefs after OBE's? For myself, I seem to tie fear into every negative aspect of humanity. Fear creates a hostile, unsure environment that I would assume lowers anyones energy. That being said, how is it so many religions rely on fear as a tool to control behavior, beliefs etc... This cannot be a good thing? I am more than certain that my letting go of the fear will have positive aspects on my life in many ways.
If heaven is a place high in the astral dimension, one full of fear, uncertainty and negative energy would certainly not achieve this? Not sure if anyone sees where I am going with this, as I don't quite know myself. I am curious of what thoughts others have on this subject.
Ely

[bettingonosports]

This will probably seem like old news to many of you but I wanted to share an awareness I recently had, and ask some questions about how it all ties in to ones faith.. Historically I have always faced my OBE's with fear as I could not control when they happened. I have been working very hard to overcome this and with great difficulty.
The other night as I felt one coming on, I talked myself thru the fear and A wave of peacefulness washed over me that I cannot explain. It was at that moment that I realized my travels would take me higher than I had ever gone before by just letting go of the fear. I feel that my new realization of OBE's has forever changed my views on life and death, religion, and existence. It's hard to put aside ideas taught to you as child, but I feel that in many ways I have progressed far ahead of those I know who are still trapped in old mindsets. It's one thing to have faith in life after death, but quite another thing to be able to say "I know without a shadow of a doubt" Have any of you struggled with your religious beliefs after OBE's?

I haven't, because I was fortunate to understand that God and religion are not the same thing, and my religious beliefs are not really about fear, they are about love, and dogma is usually based on culturally passed on beliefs, not faith.

For myself, I seem to tie fear into every negative aspect of humanity. Fear creates a hostile, unsure environment that I would assume lowers anyones energy. That being said, how is it so many religions rely on fear as a tool to control behavior, beliefs etc... This cannot be a good thing? I am more than certain that my letting go of the fear will have positive aspects on my life in many ways. Because religion is what happens when a group of followers is unable to achieve the heightened God-aware states that it's founders have achieved, and they confuse the process with the result, and try to codify the process, and when followers cannot achieve those states, it then becomes about controlling others, and that's when fear sets in. Maybe they 'didn't live right', and that's why it doesn't work, maybe it's 'something wrong in them', etc, and before you know it it's about controlling. And control is almost always achieved through fear. Hence, religion becomes the opposite of it was meant to be- it's not about uniting man's consciousness with God, it becomes all about separating it.

If heaven is a place high in the astral dimension, one full of fear, uncertainty and negative energy would certainly not achieve this? Not sure if anyone sees where I am going with this, as I don't quite know myself. I am curious of what thoughts others have on this subject.
Ely . Well, now you know what I think.
CFT

[uniopaypamp]

Because religion is what happens when a group of followers is unable to achieve the heightened God-aware states that it's founders have achieved, and they confuse the process with the result, and try to codify the process, and when followers cannot achieve those states, it then becomes about controlling others, and that's when fear sets in. Maybe they 'didn't live right', and that's why it doesn't work, maybe it's 'something wrong in them', etc, and before you know it it's about controlling. And control is almost always achieved through fear. Hence, religion becomes the opposite of it was meant to be- it's not about uniting man's consciousness with God, it becomes all about separating it. That was well put and makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the reply

[perhilzit]

Because religion is what happens when a group of followers is unable to achieve the heightened God-aware states that it's founders have achieved, and they confuse the process with the result, and try to codify the process, and when followers cannot achieve those states, it then becomes about controlling others, and that's when fear sets in. Maybe they 'didn't live right', and that's why it doesn't work, maybe it's 'something wrong in them', etc, and before you know it it's about controlling. And control is almost always achieved through fear. Hence, religion becomes the opposite of it was meant to be- it's not about uniting man's consciousness with God, it becomes all about separating it. Very well put.

My parents raised me in the Christian church (which I am by no means a part of anymore), and lately I have been talking to them a lot about OBEs. I haven't ever argued with them when they bring out their little religious remarks like "Just be sure you know where you'll end up after you die" and "Dont turn your back on your savior" (don't get me wrong, they're nice people), but it just annoys me that they are so closed to any ideas that dont come straight from the bible.
(As a side note, they attend New Life Church, former home of Ted Haggard )

They are very conservative as well, so we basically agree on nothing. In fact, most of my city is like that.

I just realized I have no clue where Im going with this, other than this is part of the reason I really appreciate people like most on this forum who understand the difference between religion and God, beliefs and "knowns", fear and love....etc. etc.

[Tinasblue]

It would be very hard to ignore the Bible or religion when you have spiritual experiences like OBE's. I myself was an atheist before learning that what I've been doing sometimes in the mornings was astral projecting. I've read about astral travel, etheric matter, etc, and some people who advertise themselves as psychic say angels are etheric or ethereal beings, they see them, etc. Since then I've been pretty much a believer.

[CedssypeEdids]

I haven't held a religious belief since being a teenager. I found my lack in religious indoctrination one of the greatest gifts ever given to me.

Oh, I believe - in an agnostic way. Since I don't know what "God" is, but feel inside that there is more than the physical world and that there is an all-pervading principle, I was also a believer for a very long time. But I am not looking for a religion...

Frankly said, I wish all people could find things out about spirituality on their own instead of being told as children what they "should believe".

Oliver

[bettingonosports]

they are so closed to any ideas that dont come straight from the bible.

Dear Arcticstoneage: If you want to make your parents feel better about what you do, and they tell you things like that, there are some Bible quotes that you can show them to show that the Bible does not proscribe what your interests are- that there are many christian mystics that do and have done this, and that just because some people select specific Bible quotes to exert control doesn't mean that it's wrong.
Here are some that IMO should cover this:

2 Corinthians 12

1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
5 Of such a one I will glory, yet of myself I will not glory, but in my infirmities. Obviously, here John is saying that people AP to get visions and Revelations of the Lord.
Revelation 4:1

1 After this I looked, and behold, a door was opened in heaven; and the first voice which I heard was it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be in the hereafter.
2 And immediatly I WAS IN THE SPIRIT, and behold, a throne was set in heaven and one sat on the throne. Here, John the revelator speaks of AP as 'being in the spirit'- He APs to have visions of the Lord.

Revelation 17

3 So he carried me away IN THE SPIRIT into the wilderness...

Revelation 21

10 And he carried me away IN THE SPIRIT to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Here he describes what would be a typical visit to one of the astral planes- as I interpret it anyway.

This, to me, from the point of view of a christian, is the most important one:

What did Jesus want us to do?
Corinthians 12:4-9
"Now there are diversities of gift, but the same Spirit.
And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of operations, but it is in the same God which worketh all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit.
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another diverse kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues;
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ." It shows here that what some churches call 'sorcery' and 'evil' Jesus calls 'Gifts of the Spirit'. There is another quote which I'll have to look up when he says:
"For those who are of the Spirit, let no man judge"- This is somewhere in Corinthians also but I have to look up the exact quote, if you want it.

[unioneserry]

Thank you so much for that post CFT!!! I was just about to go grab my bible and look for some of those verses... (as I remember some of them clearly from the first time i read it, but never bothered to bookmark them...) I always thought that ALL religions had their beginnings with guys/girls having OBE, and related experience. I remember being very young and patiently waiting for them to cover some of this stuff at church. but not... I have read the KJV Bible from cover to cover a couple of times, and, through my 'OBE GOGGLES' I see/interperet it very different from the way it was 'taught' to me at church... I guess I didn't realize that not everyont was a natural projector, and NOONE could relate!!! I have always had 'faith' that these things would be shown to me eventually, but I am finding that I have to 'find out on my own' the secrets of OBE/WALKING IN THE SPIRIT/DISCOVERY OF GOD/SELF ETC...

[bettingonosports]

I believe that this may explain when Jesus said "Those that have the eyes to see, and the ears to hear" here and there....

[fount_pirat]

It would be very hard to ignore the Bible or religion when you have spiritual experiences like OBE's. I myself was an atheist before learning that what I've been doing sometimes in the mornings was astral projecting. I've read about astral travel, etheric matter, etc, and some people who advertise themselves as psychic say angels are etheric or ethereal beings, they see them, etc. Since then I've been pretty much a believer.

I don't agree. While I would agree that it would be hard to ignore the experiences themselves, it's easy to ignore a particular religion. Your continued existence after physical death doesn't prove the bible to be true any more than a trip to England proves Harry Potter to be true.

[perhilzit]

CFTravel, thanks so much for those quotes. They were actually pretty illuminating to me, and it will be great to have access to that information.

[bettingonosports]

I don't agree. While I would agree that it would be hard to ignore the experiences themselves, it's easy to ignore a particular religion. Your continued existence after physical death doesn't prove the bible to be true any more than a trip to England proves Harry Potter to be true.

What???? What do you mean, there is no Harry Potter????? Arghhh!!! :cry: