[IRYzouNv]

i'm interested in kundalini awakenings.

i was watching this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOuw2sPuGC8
it is a Swami talking about shaktipat and she was saying what happens after you receive the kundalini initiation

"in some after they receive shaktipat it (kundalini) will instantly awaken for others it may take a months or a couple months to fully activate. eventually it does activate. then mantras are used and techniques are given which aid one to move along very rapidly so they don't get caught up in phenomena and go straight to consciousness. and they're not doing these meditations that take them astral traveling and different planes and seeing all the rest of this phenomena because it isn't needed. we want to get people through consciousness to realization as fast as possible"

towards the end

"you have to have a guru for this path or else you can get really far off into too much phenomena and really get caught in mind stuff and go down a very bad road. with a guru its a really quick way to realization"

i've had similiar ideas, whats the use (besides curiousity, which i have) in astral traveling when it is all manifestations of the divine which in essence is you.

[CedssypeEdids]

The quotes you gave sound like very unsubtle advertising for having a guru.

I don't see a particular need or rush to any kind of "realization". This would only be true *if* there were no other sense in being human than to overcome it. I don't think so.

Oliver

[DuePew]

If I'm not mistaken, Tom has received shaktipat. Maybe he can share if it really does 'take you to realization' without all that pesky personal development.

[Nikkkola]

Yes, I have received Shaktipat. It is possible that if I were content to wait I would eventually reach full enlightenment based entirely on this - but that could still take lifetimes and I do not want to wait. It is important to me to take an active role.

The thing is, though, that we are talking about the attitude many teachers have toward the astral plane. We all know that we could spend many lives exploring the astral and still not see all there is to see. If you want to spend that much time, that's great ... if you would rather focus on enlightenment now and look around on the astral later that is probably a safer bet. The thing about that, though, is that the ego can be very tricky. It is easy to get wrapped up in a side path without meaning to or even realizing it. Having a teacher to help stay focussed on enlightenment first can be helpful as a way to save time.

[CedssypeEdids]

Actually I think that all these "enlightenment now" schools are not that helpful. There are many roads to learn what is really important to you, and by narrowing down the options and retreating on a pillow only ... I'm skeptical that that will work. I don't think this is why everyone of us is here.

It could be that all the channels and such are wrong, but if they are not we live in a world and age where we can actively create and learn more than ever. If we make wise use of projection, like for example Robert Monroe did in his pursuits, this is helpful and great step in evolution.

I often wondered how frustrating it would be to be a Buddhist monk, sit all your life and don't reach enlightenment. I also sometimes wonder why we assume these "teachers" and "gurus" are right, or really enlightened. It's as much belief as it is for believing an entity you meet in the astral is real, a thoughtform, part of yourself, an illusion, or all of the former.

Oliver

[DuePew]

I agree with Korpo. I hope you all heard the sarcasm in my previous reply.

[CedssypeEdids]

Loud as a gunshot.

Oliver

[Nikkkola]

I agree with Korpo. I hope you all heard the sarcasm in my previous reply.

Sorry. I missed it.

For some reason I thought that it was just a matter of defining what counts as personal development.

[CedssypeEdids]

No problem with that, Tom, no problem at all. Of course we should meditate in a focused way and work on our mind. I only dislike the attitude of some teachers who suggest that anything else is just distraction. Know what I mean?

Oliver

[DuePew]

The thing is that personal development is like a snowflake- different to each one of us. I may consider looking into my relationship with God as I understand it as my p.d. goal, while someone else may look into balancing their energy body to change your vibrational frequency to tune into higher experiences, while someone elses' 'mission' may be to define their connection to others by 'serving' or doing 'good works'. And they all qualify, and some have to do with living here on earth, and some don't. So they're all equally valuable in my eyes.
But when someone says I'm here but I don't want to do anything here, I just want a 'quick fix' to get out of here as fast as possible- I say "why did you come here anyway?"
And I'm not talking about people that have 'reached enlightenment' and decided to come back for some reason- those people, as advanced as they may be, still came back for a reason- and the reason has to do with being here, so the same applies.
It's possible that a given person believes that they have now learned all there is to learn and are ready to 'go back'- but that is not the same at all, in my opinion.
In my life and in my experiences, I've had moments of 'ok, I think I'm done' and then something happens to get that silly idea out of my head 'right quick'. And one usually follows the other, just to make a point.

[Nikkkola]

The question of why we are here seems to be a big factor in this. I agree with the idea that we are here because we are forced to be until reaching enlightenment, and after reaching enlightenment some people come back to help make sure that a way out is available to anyone who wants it. As a result, my idea of personal development is to become increasingly unstuck from this place.

[CedssypeEdids]

The question of why we are here seems to be a big factor in this. I agree with the idea that we are here because we are forced to be until reaching enlightenment, and after reaching enlightenment some people come back to help make sure that a way out is available to anyone who wants it. As a result, my idea of personal development is to become increasingly unstuck from this place.

See, here I disagree. I don't think we are forced. I think the aspect of ourselves that is beyond this world *wants* to learn something from this experience, and that is why we are here, not out of force, but out of a higher choice.

It may feel the same, sometimes. But I think the fact that there is so many help available to achieve so much is more indicative of the "choice option" than the "force option". I don't think life is a burden, but a gift. Your point of view may surely differ, but if I look at a sunset, or feel the wind on my body, when I see the vastness of the sea or a loving smile, then I (afterward) think we underestimate the human experience when we see it only in terms of overcoming it.

Even then life is not pure joy, but the potential for a joyful inner world no matter what happens around you exists. I cannot even say if "enlightenment" means the same for you and for me or anyone else - it is just a word. I strive for mastering the human existence, and IMO this entails becoming a full human first before moving on. No matter where we move on afterward, I think what we take with us from the human experience does matter. Robert Monroe wrote that the "graduates" of human existance have something special about them they can only learn here. It is an environment that supercharges spiritual growth.

Oliver

[BEKREUNSEPBERw]

Nice thread...you guys sound wonderful...not that Im in anyway qualified to judge. I agree with all sides however Korpo's remarks seem slighty more sound. As for me enlighted or not I'd just as soon stick around this world until everyone is "Unstuck". If you leave one troubled soul here to "work" out his problems you leave alittle bit of yourself here to.
A chain, as they say is, only as good as its weakest link.

[BarBoss]

"Enlightenment is a journey not a destination ", I feel it is our raison d'etre . Tom has given me an attunement this way .
Thank you Tom
Shaktipat is free attunement from one to another and it works . It is a kindness and a benefit .I find it healing and improving of the vibration . I feel it is a compassionate person to spend time learning to help the world . I am thankful to all those who share and shine their light on the world .

[DuePew]

And we are thankful to you, who has gone through so much, and constantly gives of yourself. So before I forget- Thank you Aunt Clair.