[O25YtQnn]

I haven't experienced what you did, but I got these from William Buhlman's site. There are many more in his books, I think they sound like yours, see what you think. Best NN

Examples of profound Spiritual Experiences

“In 1996, I experienced an emotional and spiritual explosion that led to two episodes of what you describe as out-of-body experiences. Both occurred while lying in bed, doing deep breathing meditation and moving downward in consciousness toward my subconscious self. My body started to vibrate and energy emanated from every pore of my body. At first I was filled with fear but I let myself continue. As the experience continued I was in a place I can only describe as the Mind of God. I say place, but there was no place or no time. I was in the mind of Jesus on the cross and Buddha and all the prophets and holy persons throughout time. I was able to feel all of the births, lives and deaths of humanity as if I were in an endless sea of souls. It was a place of endless, unconditional love pouring forth. No beginning, no end, just pure being and the now dimensions involved. I was able to put my arms (not the physical arms, but I don’t know how else to express this) around my parents and love and forgive. I was able to forgive all and project nothing but love.”

Grace A. St. Paul, Minnesota


“My out-of-body experience was in my search for God. I fell asleep but awakened again and felt a light and buzzing sensation. I then looked at my hand and felt it. My hand was real and solid yet without warmth. I moved away from my body and went to a bright, white room. I stood at the doorway and said “Higher self now”. At first nothing much happened, so I screamed out in my mind “Higher self now!’ Suddenly I was like a rocket flying through lights and stars. My awareness was stretched across the universe. Words cannot describe any of this, for I was far beyond any form and substance. I was suddenly in an incredible ocean of pure, living light. Everything was there – all knowledge, all awareness and all answers. I was part of it all. I didn’t want to ever leave.”

Robert J. York Beach, Maine


“During my fourth self induced out-of-body experience I screamed out that I had to see God. Words can’t begin to describe it, but I felt like I suddenly shot up through layers of color. I completely surrendered to the intense motion I experienced absolute oneness with all intelligence, all life. My awareness merged with the universe, with God and for a few moments all knowledge flowed through me. It was the most incredible moment of my life.”

[invest7manager]

Welcome to Samadhi land. You can google samadhi. It's a well known experience in Eastern thought.

My experience was almost identical to yours, but with a little different interpretation. I didn't feel "love", because the term "bliss" is closer to it. But, even that doesn't describe it. It was really a lack of any human emotion, and an elevated knowing of Oneness. I realized I was God/Source, but there was no "me" to realize it. Most people call it the state of "Being", mainly because you don't do anything, but have complete awareness and knowing. The state of the Unmoved Mover.

Unfortunately, the side effects were horrible for me. I was in this experience for over 3 and a half hours, and when I came "back", I thought it had been about 10 or 15 minutes, until I looked at the clock. For weeks, I had an extremely difficult time staying in my body, and was physically ill from nausea from the floating, spinning, and slowly turning summersault sensations. I've heard of people becoming psychotic from the experience, and I can understand why. It still affects me to this day (getting close to 2 years), and I sometimes have crown chakra difficulties.

Fortunately, that experience is what brought me to this forum to try to understand what happened. From the input of others, particularly Spectral Dragon, I've come to understand that at the time, my energy body was not developed enough to withstand such an enormous experience for such a long period of time. With the help of Violetsky, I was able to begin to ground some of that energy and get some control over the side effects. As a side note, some grounding healing she did on me began a powerful Kundalini rising. So, I blame that on her.

The experience has left me with a knowledge and knowing that would have been impossible without it. It began the odyssey that turned my belief system on it's head.

[O25YtQnn]

one thing I did not mention that is similar to some of the experiences you mentioned was an apprehension in the beginning My Buddhist pals would say this is your ego attempting to prevent you from realization!

As to being atheist at the time, I'm curious why you were trying the DMT in the first place then? Probably you were subconsciously a spiritual person if not consciously, and the universe was trying to manoevre you towards realization...

You *are* lucky, I think, not to have had subsequent problems. I have had one similar experience which resulted in 1 day of complete bliss followed by 8 months of hell! - pretty much everything tiatp described. In my case - I would be interested in tiatp's view here - in addition to what she said about the system not being able to handle it yet, it turned out to be a case of not all of me wanting it; I was screwed up on a few levels I had no idea about at the time.

I felt that while I was at one or in my place with the universe, I also was a small, discrete, seperate entitity that was integral to the whole. In western magic this is sometimes called the Tiphareth experience or the solar experience, of being perfectly oneself amidst all other things. In my case I used a magical ritual to get to this but unlike some examples I was trying to bring the experience back and integrate it into my energy body, which couldn't handle it. So I would vibrate like a jackhammer morning noon and night for weeks afterwards. Since then of course I've discovered that these vibrations can be calmed down a bit and used for OBE, so all turned out well.

I am interested MalevolenT whether you plan to use DMT again. I know several people who used Ayahuasca, but although they had great experiences, they did say after a few times that the only way it could become a regular practice for them was if they went to Brazil and became like the shamans there, living intertwined with the spirit of the plants! So they then started to work on more conventional techniques, to integrate the experience.

Have your experiences since then been like the DMT one at all, or less dramatic? And would you consider using it again?

Best, NN

[O25YtQnn]

I also had good experiences on mushrooms, but nothing I'd want to repeat now.

My own 'universe-encompassing' experience was not the same as yours, because my perspective remained earthbound and I did not go out of body.

Essentially what I had been doing for a while up to then was working kind of opposite to OBE - finding good energies, then bringing these energies back down to earth (within a magic circle) and grounding them in various ways. Obviously bringing them into the energy body is one way, but another is storing them in a herbal alchemical mixture where they can be used for healing and magic. Still another is to find a spirit in OBE and then bring the spirit to earthplane, etc.

Anyhow, I had found a place that very much resembles one described by William Buhlman - a huge light, which as I started to enter into it began to burn away all my concepts of self, all my thoughts. After a while I realized it was a sort of sun light, very healing. Who knows what would have happened if I'd have headed into whilst OBE, something pretty lovely I'm sure, although whether technically 'samadhi' or not I couldn't say.

However, I decided to try and contact it whilst in body, my normal practice at the time. I set everything up and just kind of contacted in my mind the place where this great light was, without leaving my room. I began to work with it and brought more and more of it down. I was so in love with what I was experiencing that I guess I overdid it and brought so much of it down that I became overfull and (as a healer has since pointed out) damaged my aura.

For the rest of that day, whenever I would look at anyone it was as if I was seeing how they were connected to God... you probably can follow what I mean. I was grinning like crazy and what's more everyone grinned back.

I started to notice negative thoughts taking the state away on the following day, and headaches began the day after. 'Ah well,' I thought, 'it didn't last but it was good'. However the problem was that not only did the feeling go away, the thoughts got way more negative... everywhere I went I realized how I was screwing myself and I was in constant fear after a while as well as trembling all the time.

BTW some very interesting side effects came from this, for example I gave myself sunburn later on just by thinking of the experience. It happened twice, and both times it was winter in London. Luckily it went away within 10 minutes, or it would've been hard to explain, but while it lasted it was all over the yang skin of my body, especially shoulders, and my face was beetroot-red, plus I had a heat rash, and even felt tired as after a day in the sun.

I now realize that we block ourselves from constant experience of this beauty, and that this one earthly taste of it brought to light (literally!) everything in me that was stopping it from being there constantly; all of my faults came up and bit me at once!

Since then I have been healing in various ways, and have done little magic and no OBE - but that is all set to change this year, so yay for me! I have finally realised that the energy can be brought down and assimilated over time, and that the vibrations can be used to project. I've made a couple of experiments and my guides and me are healing up the last things that stand in the way of the next adventure...


Sorry to babble on. First time I've told that story actually - it may be what I signed onto this forum to do. Thanks very much for listening!

Best NN

[O25YtQnn]

Don Juan teaches carlos that it is necessary to capture "allies" in order to perform sorcery Yes this is still working with spirits though I think. (I haven't read Castaneda.) With my thing I maybe didn't make it clear but the giant light was a part of me - just too big a part for me to hold at the time.

The 'allies' he is talking about are spirits of various kinds I'm sure.

I never tried to capture any of them or their energy or bring it back and harness it in some manner but it's an interesting idea Just to mention, this is hardly an idea that is original with me! Essentially it is the whole point of the magical Invocation or Evocation (eg. as in Bardon's 'Practice of Magical Evocation' and many other places).

In the case of the things you discovered whilst OBE, if it was a spirit you would not just capture it without asking! - maybe some of the more primitive sorcerers would, but I'm not talking about anything like that. You would develop a relationship with the spirit. As in the experience Robert Bruce himself had that he relates in Astral Dynamics, where he met a priest who healed him during a projection, and who said that they should meet again.

In that situation I myself would also have asked for some kind of symbol whereby I could call this priest entity to the earthzone/Malkuth/RTZ/whatever. Then you can evoke the spirit here on earth and speak with it, etc. It's like the next step in your relationship - now you invite it back to your place!

I wonder though if one might face some sort of negative karma for harnessing these energies. I wouldn't want to be considered as a "psychic vampire" of sorts. I probably explained wrong! This isn't stealing energy or whatever, it is developing a relationship with it. If it is a spirit then you develop a relationship with it as you would another person. Simply talking to a very powerful and good intelligence changes your energy body for the better!

Similarly spirits can be housed (if they are willing!) inside talismans, or for example can bless and bond with a herbal potion. I love this kind of stuff! To me it's so very important not only to go and find things OBE but also bring them back so they can be used to heal, etc. But I am just at the beginning... watch this space!

It seems to me that these "negs" people are describing aren't as powerful as they may appear Hmmm... well as someone who has been seriously attacked I hope nothing ever happens to you to make you change your mind! There is seriously nasty stuff out there, but thankfully most people never see that side of it. Did you read Robert Bruce's book on 'Psychic Self Defence' though? That has a story or 2 in it that might curdle your blood!

In my own case I haven't been attacked badly in quite a while. All my worst attacks happened to me when I was a kid - the first and strongest was at age 2! Unfortunately this is not so uncommon as we might like to think - but Robert himself is onto this stuff and he would know what I was talking about. That's part of the reason I like him. Even quite good esoteric authors are often completely clueless that this stuff goes on....

if you are endeavouring to collect energy from the perspective of your physical body, I have found the most benefit from what I call "power spots" in nature I do want to experiment with those... a magician called Taylor Ellwood, who I like alot, has many interesting power spot techniques, including making one for yourself!

What would also interest me would be to astral project to a power spot on earth in the RTZ and see what I could see... plus do energy work out of body... yep, that's on the list of things planned to do...

Nice talking to you also!

Best NN

[invest7manager]

There were no religious overtones to my experience, but the unconditional love that seemed to be directed towards me from the whole is unforgettable. While I still do not believe in an omnipotent, singular god, I now define god as the interpenetrating network of all living things, and all life. This is pretty much the conclusion that most people come to who have had this experience. My interpretation is that what I call "the Source", rather than "God" is an omnipotent intelligence that is nonlocal to infinity. There is nothing that is not the Source. Religion is for people who need to follow and be told what life's all about, rather than discovering it for themselves.

I'm not making any judgements here, because I think any road you take is a good road to go. It's what you need to complete your experience. But, and this is where I get tomatoes thrown at me from the New Agers, I think that anything used except your own consciousnessness and energy is merely a temporary prop or training wheels to get you to enlightenment. And, this includes drugs and majik. All of this can be done without chemicals or ritual. All of my greatest experiences have been achieved with nothing more than meditation and intent. Using props just uses up more of your time that could be spent in training on your own to master your own abilities. But, hey, we all need to do what appeals to us, right?

In regards to a question nnonnth asked about my ability to handle my experience, all I can do is explain what happened to me and my interpretation of it. Who knows if it's the final word on it? Maybe you are both familar with the energy body system of chakras and the secondary system? Robert teaches about it in his NEW (New Energy Ways). He teaches you how to increase awareness of and use energy. The human body is intimately connected with this system, which is what acupuncture is really all about. So, I had been a Reiki master/teacher and was trained in a couple of other energy type healing systems. I could feel energy, but nothing like I was able to after learning Roberts's NEW. In the midst of developing my energy body even further with practice, and OBEing, I had the experience I earlier described. What I now know is that my physical body had not caught up to, or was in sync with what my energy body was accomplishing. Which caused a physical crisis as a result. As I increased the abilities of my energy body at a much slower rate, I was able to handle more transcendental experiences without so many adverse side effects. I really can't say why some people have adverse effects and some don't. I have some guesses, but that's all they are.

If you aren't familiar with Robert's NEW system, and it sounds intriguing, here is the free link to learn this yourself. http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=18

[KraskiNetu]

If you aren't familiar with Robert's NEW system Oh I'm very familiar with it!

I personally use something else that I have been developing for myself though. I just was up at the 'Ask Robert' forum and someone mentioned a guy named Waldo Vieira who seems to be onto something a little similar to what I'm doing - basically using the 'vibrations' to retune the whole body and remove blocks. This is something where I lie down and it 'just happens', plus my guides have told me to keep doing it, so I know I'm onto something.

I can tell more if interested but I think personally people should use what they feel is right for them of course.

I think that anything used except your own consciousnessness and energy is merely a temporary prop or training wheels to get you to enlightenment. And, this includes drugs and majik Well... ak. I don't want to argue with you, but maybe it's a case of until you've tried it, you can't really judge it. There sure is alot of stuff out there right now and most people don't know too much of it. I was wondering what you had actually read about magic?

With drugs I definitely agree some people may find it a cool kick-start but it's no long-term approach. I don't use them at all. But it's very different with those Brazillian shamans who work with the Ayahuasca plants in the jungle. These guys use the plants as a spiritual guru, it has been put on earth for the purpose of guiding them etc. The necessity of making instructions in books that anyone anywhere can practice makes such things a little... specialist. But I feel they are nonetheless beautiful and can lead very far. They are off the beaten track, that's all.

As for magic, that's a whole other topic! But those shamans remind me of the hundreds of important things I have learned from working with plants and herbs myself. In magical traditions you actually communicate with plants and find out their virtues. Or for example there is a beautiful practice for making a wand where the magician will talk to a tree and some vines, and make the vines grow around a twig of the tree, constantly feeding and keeping in contact with these plants, and this will make a wand after a couple of years that is deep with the power of the trees and the earth.

It may seem - I know it does to many who don't practice it - that magical stuff is kind of a crutch. But it's not just New Agers who find magic useful! I could point to a hundred examples. Take Robert's interest in Franz Bardon for example - that's magic if you like! Or his interest in tarot for that matter - and believe me, tarot can be taken very very far. Bardon of course could cure cancer and multiple sclerosis with magical alchemical methods, using herbs and elemental spirits, so I guess that's pretty cool, no?

Or take that wonderful device, the magic mirror. I had been using one for a while but I was quite speechless about what Bardon mentions you can get up to with them - eg., watching astral locales and then projecting through the mirror into them.

Magic is also alot more than just 'ritual'. Bardon's 'Initiation' is a huge course without a single ritual in it. Mind you, ritual itself is not the mindless thing that some people might take it for. As Michael Winn (an excellent Taoist) points out, a qigong form is a kind of ritual too. And a very useful one! I have actually taken bits of his qigong forms and put them into my circle castings. These latter again might be taken to be 'unnecessary' but they can be very very useful and I have found them far more efficient than pure sitting for some things.

Many of the practices on this page - not only OBE but spirit contacts, PK and psychic abilities, etc. - are things that magicians regularly work on. And not forgetting, Robert is always saying to people who are cursed or have serious negs - find a shaman or a white witch!

I could post a whole lot of links here to back up what I'm saying, but am not sure if I'm allowed to... as a moderator you could let me know! But I think your idea of magic may be a trifle limited, if you are one of those who think it is a kind of crutch...

Best NN

[invest7manager]

The forum rule is that after 20 posts you can post any links you like...well, we will probably delete it if it's porn.

I've read a bit about majik, and I have some training as a Rosicrucian. Specifically regarding majik, that's about it, except for various reading I've done here and there. Don't get me wrong, I think all of that is fascinating and beneficial, and really appealed to me at one time or another. I have nothing against it, and am aware that it works. My only point is that much of what we know is an illusion. A highly evolved master needs nothing more than consciousness. And, no, I'm not a master. But, IMO, if that's a goal of yours, best get started as soon as possible. I was just livening up the conversation with my usual obnoxious self. Carry on. Oh, and Harry Potter rules!

[KraskiNetu]

My only point is that much of what we know is an illusion. A highly evolved master needs nothing more than consciousness. And, no, I'm not a master. But, IMO, if that's a goal of yours, best get started as soon as possible.

Hmm... not sure you followed me here, but I can see your mind is quite made up on the subject! So I will pursue no further... Best NN