[clorkergo]

I still question whether my own astral projection experiences were actually lucid dreams with increased level of consciousness. Did I really leave my physical body, or was it all in my head, a figment of my overactive imagination?

Things were happening so fast, and I did not yet know about all those methods I've read about lately. But I discovered that indeed I experienced some things that do occur during projection or partial projection. The first few times, I'd feel my astral body vibrating and floating around a bit. But I could not see, and my attempts would come to an end either by my body jerking out or, in one occasion, my astral limbs "flinging" out all of a sudden. That of course broke the concentration and left me very frustrated.

Funny, after soaking up all the info I could find on the net, I now have hit the wall. This week I've had no luck, not even a partial projection despite daily meditating and relaxing practices. I'd like to share with you two of my AP journal entries, and would very much appreciate any input from you guys. Feel free to analyse! I'm still "green" and need guidance.

FEB 15, Wed
I went out drinking last night. Got home around 2:30am and woke up this morning with a hangover. Good opportunity to take it easy and stay in bed.

Tried OBEing and almost succeeded this time- ALL RIGHT! I actually felt myself separating from my body, I simply stood up and WALKED to the stairway, then proceeded to go downstairs, across the dining area to the sliding glass doors. That's when I stopped, realizing: "hey, I'm supposed to be upstairs in my bed! What the heck am I doing here?" Well, guess what? I returned to my bed in an instant.

Sitting up in bed I tried to discern whether I had been dreaming. I felt every step I took going down the steps, I felt my hand on the rail. The only problem was that this, too, happened in darkness. Only while standing behind the glass doors looking outside I had some sort of foggy vision. The next moment I was back in bed.

FEB 18, Sat
Finally, a success! (I think!?!)
My best and maybe my first real (?) OBE... This happened between 9 and 10 am. after a good night's rest.

As I felt my astral self detaching, I lost consciousness, but only briefly. I came to with a full vision -YES!

During relaxation and breathing I had decided that if I were to succeed, I'd attempt to visit my brother. I've been very worried about him lately, because he has a bad drinking problem, if not a full blown alcoholism.

So, as I gained back my consciousness, I decided to go see my brother. Immediately, I came to him and observed him sitting down, looking up at me. His face and expression were clear, the surroundings were blurred. I had barely enough time to say his name (my voice sounded kind of distorted but loud), then I was whisked away involuntarily.

I found myself hovering over a beautiful deep-blue lake. It was surrounded by a shoreline of very rugged looking rock formations, behind which were green fields of grass. It was so sunny and bright, the view was breathtakingly gorgeous! I flew over the rocks and paused to study them and the ripples on the surface of the lake. The air was crystal clear and everything seemed real. How I enjoyed this place after my previous foggy and dark experiences. I made a conscious wish for the greens and blues to turn brighter, and they became even more vibrant! Awesome! I hovered along the shoreline for a while enjoying the scenery, then flew to check out some islands further away. Upon returning to the shore, I landed on a nice spot covered with soft grass. A thought entered my mind. I decided to call on a gypsy I had met in a dream last night. Funny, how I suddenly remembered this dream person (with whom I had shared a romantic moment). Was I now having another dream?

As I started concentrating on calling my gypsy guy, I was suddenly taken to a gloomy and desolate rock covered landscape. The rocky terrain stretched as far as my eye could see. "This must be what the moon looks/feels like" I thought. Behind me was an old brick wall. The bricks looked ancient, patterns were broken and covered by time.

Wandering around, searching for the gypsy, two men appeared before me. They were dressed in drab, grey clothes (perhaps they were miners). They asked me what was I looking for, and I replied, "my gypsy, I want to have sex with him! (How's that for honesty?!) I sensed an unhealthy interest emanating from these two and quickly withdrew from their presence. Next moment I was back at my bedside, looking at my face. I look weird, I thought. Then I slipped back in.

Wide awake in bed, I recalled and examined the events that had taken place. Once again, I questioned the reality of it all. Was it actually an authentic OBE? Surely I hadn't expected or planned to go on such a voyage. Everything seemed so real! But what about the dream guy
I was looking for? Was I in a lucid dream, because he was a "dream acquintance" or did I not find him because of that fact? Who were those men and why were they there? Did my voice sound strange and my face look weird because it was just a dream? Go figure...

[clorkergo]

I see some of you have read my message but there's no replies yet. Perhaps it's a wait-and-see situation (a Christian, will she last (?)or is she a fake (?) or other reasons such as those)...

I just don't know what to think about the supernatural training and practices etc. anymore. I've read so much and some of it makes a lot of sense, as I recognize some side-effects and consequences of my new found interest and experimentations. But I have a stubborn tendency of not wanting to do things the way others do, direct or advice, so I guess I get just what I deserve!

Haven't had any luck OBEing lately, but have felt new sensations (like my body stretching etc) and become fatiqued or nauseated after some of the attempts. You see, I hate to give up so I may keep trying for hours. Well, it's not unusual for me to stay in a dream-like state all day long, so maybe it's just me.

My husband, on the other hand, is experiencing symptoms while at work and it's interfering so much that I think maybe I better quit this quest of mine. I read about the "cords" and most definetely my hubby has some (the emotional kind) affecting him in very strong ways. For example, whenever I have PMS, he gets very emotional, bloated and experiences cramping that's probably just as painful as what I'm having. Any other condition applies as well. (I think he's an empath more so than I).
This emotional cord seems to be a one way attachment, because I don't feed from him... Usually I can endure a lot when it comes to pain and other things, so maybe he receives some of the things that won't bother me the least bit.

Lately he's been feeling very dizzy and nauseous at the times I'm attempting to project, experiencing pain above the navel area, between the ribs. He thinks it maybe an ulcer or something. Another symptom is this continuous rash. It's not red or infected, just raised bumps on the skin surface that itch like the dickens.

Yesterday, I almost ran over the neighbor's dog as his owner was walking him by the roadside. The dog was on a leash so I was driving normal as always. All of a sudden he walks right towards the center of the road, as I approach. I swerve and probably missed the dog merely by a couple of inches. There's about 15ft. drop to a canal on the other dide, so lucky I did not end up down there. I went to chat with the neigbor and the dog whimpered and acted somewhat weird towards me.

That reminds me of another incident years ago. I was out walking, quietly singing a hymn when this big dark dog appeared and silently followed me, right at my heels. I felt a cold fear wash over my whole body. I kept singing though, and after walking a block or two with the dog breathing at my heels, it suddenly turned and went the other way. I wonder if this is one of those core images I should deal with...

Gotta answer the phone, be right back...

[nd90t3sf]

Sola Neid,
You will constantly be criticizing where you went to in your dreams and astral adventures. This is only natural.
I would suggest that there is an easy way to tell whether you are in a dream world or an astral plane. If you are in a place not of your own making, you will have a deep knowledge that you are a visitor there. Often, the people you encounter will look at you and you will feel like an alien in their environment. You will again have a deep understanding or intuition that they are separate and alive entities.

Apply this criteria to your encounter with the two "miners."

Regards,
Matthew

[clorkergo]

Wow, can it really be that simple? Thank You Matthew!

I certainly did not like the way those men looked at me.

Did I end up in lower astral level because I was interested in having a sexual encounter with someone?

[nd90t3sf]

Perhaps in another post you already mentioned it... but with you spending so much time and energy attempting OBEs, how much time are you taking for preliminary energy work? It is very important to store the energy before attempting OBEs. I use Robert Bruce's NEW system for at least an hour each day and this generally results in me going from a lucid dream to an OBE about once a week (that should give you a rough estimate of how much energy I need for my dream and OBE work)... I may be wrong, but some of your "symptoms" may come from trying to run the engine while it is overheating and almost out of gas.

Also, being a Christian should have little impact on your path here. Christian mystics have for ages experienced mystical "visions," which were at least produced by astral sight if not full blown OBEs. Remember, early Christianity drew from many sources like the Greek Eleusinian mysteries, the Persian cult of Mithras, and the Hebrew Merkabah mysticism- all proponents of the soul leaving the body to merge with the godhead.

The mystery of Christ's life, death, and resurrection is not contrary to your explorations of the spiritual levels of existence: it is a symbolic revelation of the actual journey you are undertaking.

-Matthew

[nd90t3sf]

Wow, can it really be that simple? Thank You Matthew!

Yes, be honest with yourself and how you felt during the experience. That is the surest indicator of where you have been (in my opinion). Besides, these feeling are usually very profound and deeper than any surface emotion... like I said, they are a deep understanding- which make the things they reveal very plain and simple!

As for going into a lower astral realm, I will leave that answer to others. While I have journeyed to many places, I have never been able to see the wider "macrocosm" or perceive the different "layers." Until I have experienced these "layers" side by side or been able to perceive them from the "outside," anything I say will just be the BS I overheard someone else say. I'm totally not in to parroting someone else's dogma and, so, will not comment on this.
-Matthew

[nd90t3sf]

Lately he's been feeling very dizzy and nauseous at the times I'm attempting to project, experiencing pain above the navel area, between the ribs. He thinks it maybe an ulcer or something. Another symptom is this continuous rash. It's not red or infected, just raised bumps on the skin surface that itch like the dickens.

Again, this might be an indicator that you are running low on energy and are using the connection you have with your husband to help fuel your endeavors. If you haven't been using a system to gather energy, I would recommend Bruce's NEW system: http://www.astraldynamics.com/tutorials/?BoardID=18. If you are practicing a system daily, there could be other reasons for the symptoms you and your husband have experienced, but this would be the first place I'd look.

-Matthew

[clorkergo]

with you spending so much time and energy attempting OBEs, how much time are you taking for preliminary energy work? It is very important to store the energy before attempting OBEs. I use Robert Bruce's NEW system for at least an hour each day and this generally results in me going from a lucid dream to an OBE about once a week (that should give you a rough estimate of how much energy I need for my dream and OBE work)... I may be wrong, but some of your "symptoms" may come from trying to run the engine while it is overheating and almost out of gas.

Also, being a Christian should have little impact on your path here. Christian mystics have for ages experienced mystical "visions," which were at least produced by astral sight if not full blown OBEs. Remember, early Christianity drew from many sources like the Greek Eleusinian mysteries, the Persian cult of Mithras, and the Hebrew Merkabah mysticism- all proponents of the soul leaving the body to merge with the godhead.

The mystery of Christ's life, death, and resurrection is not contrary to your explorations of the spiritual levels of existence: it is a symbolic revelation of the actual journey you are undertaking.

-Matthew

Thanks again, Matthew, I will read your reply again with thought, and look more into Christian mysticism as well. I've been shielded from being influenced by such knowledge, you know how that goes! And you probably understand how such knowledge can be perceived as a big threat to one's faith. This is why I question whether I should continue or give it up.

I'm beginning to realize what an important part the energy work plays with AP - and I understand what you're saying. I will read the NEW for beginners, I hope it will be sufficient training for now. I also downloaded the free EFT book and will study it as well. Someone posted the link (ThankYou -whoever did it!).

It's so easy to just want the results and skip the neccessary training...

I was just talking with my brother (problem drinker) and I'm wondering if there's anything I could do (at this point), other than praying and being there to listen...

[JMLot]

Hello Sola,

First off I have to say that I very much agree with Matthew's advice. Very sound information.

I think I can add some additional perspective on some issues.

Earlier you asked about 'lower astral realms'. The simple answer is that yes, a sexual desire can direct you to lower astral realms, but there are other factors as well. Astral level, or focus, is a matter of vibration, which goes roughly from the gross (physical) up through the RTZ, the astral, the divine, etc.. There are many 'maps' of the specifics of this that vary from experience to experience, but the basic idea is always the same. With this in mind, it is easy to see how a bodily desire can limit the level of vibration your mind can expand to.

Looking at your experiences metaphorically, it appears to me that is what your experiences are telling you. Your instant transportation from the wonderful forest, a place of life, light and growth, to the desolate landscape with the suspicious men, seems to be a warning for you to be careful of errant sexual urges.

Of course, sex is nothing to be ashamed of, and is actually hardwired into your brain. Sex is itself a type of consciousness, and is a fundamental part of your energy system as a human being. Sex is the creative impulse of the universe coming through you. The hard task, of course, is finding a satisfying and balanced way of both expressing and channeling your sexual energy into the activities, astral or otherwise, that you really want. In your experience, your sexual desire was taking you from place to place, basically controlling the experience. Obviously, you want to transcend your basic urges, though you have to work with such a primal and powerful force, not against it, to get the best results. There is a lot of literature publicly available on this subject.

As to quitting your experiences, that is another tough question. I have also been down this road myself, and I while you have to make the decision for yourself, I regret having quit. Obviously, if the experiences start getting out of control, you have to take steps. While it is a heady and enlightening experience for one's soul to soar, IMO you must keep your feet firmly planted on the earth. There is an important purpose to our physical existance, and you must not lose sight of it. At the same time, I also believe that the future of humanity is closely tied to the psychic universe. Astral experience is both very seductive and very powerful, and it can be very easy to get lost in the experience - to go off the deep end - but with proper preparedness, perspective and understanding you have access to wonders and opportunities for personal expansion and growth literally beyond imagination.

[clorkergo]

Thank you so much for your reply I appreciate it very much!
Good explanation and advice, you express your views well and clearly. I will consider everything you said.

There's much to discover and many new things to explore... A decision not to nurture and develope these skills would probably be a mistake I'd end up regretting later on. Once I learn the right balance between controlling self, emotions, behavior and my "artistic side" with its impulsive tendencies, I hope to increase my potential for spiritual growth. I have plenty of enthusiasm and sincere wish to learn but tend to bounce from one extreme to another too easily.

Thanks again Moonchild!

[clorkergo]

While reading some material written by the founder of my childhood faith, I came across something very interesting and exciting and just have to post it here.

[JMLot]

Very interesting!

[+++Poguru+++]

Absolutely. It seems more like remote viewing to me, though.

[clorkergo]

It gets even more interesting (The following taken from the same manuscript).

[+++Poguru+++]

Awesome.

[+++Poguru+++]

see some of you have read my message but there's no replies yet. Perhaps it's a wait-and-see situation (a Christian, will she last (?)or is she a fake (?) or other reasons such as those)...

I just don't know what to think about the supernatural training and practices etc. anymore. I've read so much and some of it makes a lot of sense, as I recognize some side-effects and consequences of my new found interest and experimentations. But I have a stubborn tendency of not wanting to do things the way others do, direct or advice, so I guess I get just what I deserve! Sola! That's funny. You will find there are many of us Christians in this forum. I figured you'd read around and discover our posts. I do think you'll find that in mental endeavors you will get what you expect-and some surprises. BTW not wanting to do things the way others want is a good thing. Happy travels! It's all about discovery of the universe and most importantly, yourself.

[clorkergo]

Sola! That's funny. You will find there are many of us Christians in this forum. I figured you'd read around and discover our posts. I do think you'll find that in mental endeavors you will get what you expect-and some surprises. BTW not wanting to do things the way others want is a good thing. Happy travels! It's all about discovery of the universe and most importantly, yourself.

Yup, I did notice that! And it's great to meet all sorts of people who are not shy about expressing themselves freely! Be who you are, that's the ticket, right!

Thanks for your encouraging words CFTraveler, I've already noticed that it's one of your special gifts.

[clorkergo]

I'm seriously thinking I should quit this pursuit of "enlightenment"after reading about the consequences some people have to deal with. I've experienced some thrilling, some unsettling, some worrysome things after practicing the energy rising techniques (some of which I "already" instinctintly knew and practiced during meditation, I guess from being naturally inclined to doing such).

It's been more difficult to "get out" since becoming more aware of the practices and "standards" and as I'm making more conscious efforts to reach my earlier goals, I'm discovering more sadness and destitude in this whole deal of etheric/astral realm. In a way it seems to become more like an imprisonment, addictive and prohibitive of any real growth in spiritual life.

Anyway, I've been pondering these issues and am still waiting for clarity before drawing conclusions or making statements that I may regret...

We'll see!

[+++Poguru+++]

Don't worry too much. You will find that if you're meant to cultivate this it will happen, whether 'you' want it or not. IMO, this type of thing is like a calling. You already know that praying for guidance is always good.

[clorkergo]

Sigh... You're probably right CFTraveler.
Last night I once again decided to quit and had a long talk with Daddy before falling asleep, because I'm not certain if He wants me to continue this.