[uncoosesoge]

Last night I was in focus ten, or a trance whatever you wanna call it, and I got the 3D vision that comes before having an OBE. When this happens, its common for rapid eye movement to occur. However, my physical body was still awake, so I felt all the eye movements, and had to struggle greatly to keep my eyelids shut. THis has happened before, and if I dont clench my eye lids shut, my eyes open right up and thats not very good now is it. This is suppost to happen right around the time i get paralysis, but in this case and in others it happened before... any suggestions??

[MexicoCity]

If & when it happens again, try to focus on an object away from you, and put all your attention on it. You may find yourself floating where it is.

[Ngwkgczx]

yeaaaah, i'm a beginner, but it is a major problem for me too. Whenever i reach the heavy trance state (when i feel my body sinking into my bed, and hear the weird sounds) i have 2 problems in fact. 1 - my heartbeat - it's going through the roof; 2 - my eyes - i start blinking, i just can't help myself. to keep them shut, i have to tense my facial muscles hard-out... still looking for the way around those 2 obstacles.

[MexicoCity]

yeaaaah, i'm a beginner, but it is a major problem for me too. Whenever i reach the heavy trance state (when i feel my body sinking into my bed, and hear the weird sounds) i have 2 problems in fact. 1 - my heartbeat - it's going through the roof; 2 - my eyes - i start blinking, i just can't help myself. to keep them shut, i have to tense my facial muscles hard-out... still looking for the way around those 2 obstacles.

Your heartbeat going fast is probably your heart chakra strobing! You're probably disengaged already but still in-body. If this freaks you out, instead of tensing your muscles, try deep-breathing. If you do it slow enough, it will not break the trance and then you can go on to an exit strategy. IMO you're practically out.

[Ngwkgczx]

cheers for the feedback. I've the heart charkla's activity before, but it totally felt like my real heart. Weird, i couldn't feel my body, but i certainly could feel my heart =)
I've reached such condition only once, though, just couldn't hadle myself at the time. It'll try the breathing thing. Thanks for tips!

[uncoosesoge]

The heart chakra pulses much faster than a regular heart, even when a normal heart is beating as fast as it can go, my heart chakra pulses way faster then that. Pulse is the key word. Its not so much of a beat like the heart does. Its more of a constant pulsing, when I do the math it comes out to maybe 600 pulses a minute, if not more. Theres no way anyones heart can beat that fast. But who knows maybe some peoples chakras pulse faster than mine.

[Ngwkgczx]

heart charkla - that's what i'm struggling with... i've just been trying to project for an hour or so and noticed something after myself:
I find it quite easy to relax fully, somehow i can completely lose the kinesthetic sensation(feel) of my hand after about 15 minutes, and can achieve a state of deep trance after about 40 minute(it used to take me an hour a week ago). Once i reach it, i notice that i feel very light, i start seeing things and everything around me seems to be slowly changing. That's when my heart starts pounding. Not because i'm scared, i'm actually not, it just does(no need to explain the reason as it has already been explained) Then i try to breath deeply but slowly. My stomach and chest become stiff and i find it hard to breath, i try to stay as i am, but after about a minute my heart beat slows down and i kinda lose concentration. I've noticed that once i've passed through the increased heart rate stage(which is the climax in my opinion) and have failed to project, it is impossible to carry on. So far i'm stuck on it... i can't go beyond it. I've been looking for it on the net and scrolled through some books, but no one really describes how to handle this heart charkla... it doesn't seem to be a common problem.

I thought of creating a new topic for the discussion of this problem, but since we've been talking about the heart charkla here, i thought it would be an appropriate place for this post.

[MexicoCity]

Have you tried an exit technique just as the heart chakra thing starts? I get out that way but only if mine is going really fast (machinegun fast).

[Ngwkgczx]

exit techniques, yeah i've been trying to attempt a few of them, like the rope technique, for example. Using my imagenary hands i've been trying to climb it, but my imagination didn't work and my consciouness remained unmoved, as if i was clinging to my body.

I've tried Monroe's 90 degree technique, but the result was the same - my consciouness didn't move, i knew that if i would move any of my limbs, i would actually move physically. With all the other techniques like the mist technique, or rolling over - i just can't move my consciousness, even though i visualise that i'm floating up, after a few seconds i still realise that i'm on my bed inside my body.

I also follow Buhlman's advice - persuading yourself, saying in your head "now i'm out of my body" and stuff like that... and DeGarcia's technique - just watch the hypnagogic images and allow the sensations flood my body without resisting, but it didn't work too, the sensations fully flooded my body but shortly after they faded.

right now, i'm kind of stuck. I don't think my problem has something to do with the selection of an exit technique, i think my problem is their use. Their point is to move to consciousness away from your body. I find it difficult. After a while of thinking i'm already floating above, i know that if i'll try to move my hand or open my eyes i'll actually physically move. And this heart chakra thing increases my kinesthetic sensations(the feel of my body), it brings me "down to earth" i'm no longer in such a deep trance, that's why i find it particularly difficult...

any advices? because right now, i don't know what direction i should be heading. I'll be having another go in a few hours from now(before sleep)

Thanks much in advance.

[w4HPpbSW]

-> Veles,

Please, could you tell us how many attempts did you do and how long?

[Ngwkgczx]

i've started just over 2 weeks ago, and had around 10 attempts by now. Only after about 3-4 tries i managed to achieve a deep trance. it took me over an hour. now, i'm able to achieve it within 45-50 minutes.
Maybe i'm expecting too much from myself for now... but frustration undermines confidence and shatters belief.

[w4HPpbSW]

-> Veles,

Here is what I wrote on my day 78 of MAP.
[OBE attempt #75] 6h15 PM:25 minutes, armchair. Love Method. At first one character a young boy looking at me. Behind him a green landscape. After I see a young woman with a black beret rising the stairs of a press box where there are two others young women sat and a man stand up watching me. His arms straight on their fists. I give another name of the 'Unconscious Mind method' because now I have understood something. Everything who happens during the attemps must be taken with love. Tinglings, jerks and so on, love them and appreciate them. Let your body absolutely free to the news sensations. No oppositions to the trance who arrives waves after waves, deeper and deeper, and more quickly. No oppositions to the news sensations not yet experimented. Accept them with love and trust.
Be totally positive. Days after days we approach the success. Its seems that the body have to learn the way to leave. Each days you do an attempt each days your body will let you go away.

[iqxdvjgmat]

Originally Posted by Veles yeaaaah, i'm a beginner, but it is a major problem for me too. Whenever i reach the heavy trance state (when i feel my body sinking into my bed, and hear the weird sounds) i have 2 problems in fact. 1 - my heartbeat - it's going through the roof; 2 - my eyes - i start blinking, i just can't help myself. to keep them shut, i have to tense my facial muscles hard-out... still looking for the way around those 2 obstacles.

Your heartbeat going fast is probably your heart chakra strobing! You're probably disengaged already but still in-body. If this freaks you out, instead of tensing your muscles, try deep-breathing. If you do it slow enough, it will not break the trance and then you can go on to an exit strategy. IMO you're practically out. Sweet, thats really encouraging because I've been to the same point and lost it! Didn't know I was so close !

[MexicoCity]

Veles wrote: Their point is to move to consciousness away from your body. I find it difficult Two points: If you only have been practicing for two weeks, it is too soon to gauge what works best for you, unless you are a spontaneous projector and are now deciding to do it consciously.
I am a spontaneous projector, have been doing it approximately since 7 or 8 when I realized what I was doing, (I am now 49, so you can imagine how long I've been doing it). I decided to learn to deliberately and consciously project about 2 years ago (a little over), and after starting MAP, it took me 30 days (give or take a few) to consciously project. I have been consciously projecting about once a month for that long (sometimes more, depending on external things) and are now starting to figure out what affects me more and what I'm better at.
Having said that, from your words, that is the idea that your body consciousness is hampering your projection, I disagree- it's not the fact that you have trouble dissassociating from your body, it's that you believe that that is the problem.
Let me try to explain what I'm trying to say: When we do energy work, we use the association we have with the body to work and stimulate the energy body. When you have a tactile feel for your energy body, you learn to separate the feel of the energy body from the physical body, and that makes you able to bilocate (something common in an OBE, and get a feel for manipulating the energy body.) This comes with time and practice. So identification with the physical can be a tool for successful RTZ OBE. In my opinion, I think that if we could completely dissasociate from the physical body, all projections would be mental, there would be no RTZ OBEs or energy body separations, (of course, this is MO.) But, (and it's a big one), if you believe your association with your physical body is going to stop you from separating, it definitely will. No doubt about it.
If you believe that separation is impossible for you, then you might want to try phasing. In this type of projection, there is no 'formation of an energy body' or 'tangible separation'. Kind of like remote viewing.

[Ngwkgczx]

sounds interesting... what do u mean by "MAP" is it the Mastering Astral Projection guide?
Anyways, by the looks of it, a lot depends on attitude..But i'll try phasing, maybe it will really work better for me.

once again thanks

[MexicoCity]

... what do u mean by "MAP" is it the Mastering Astral Projection guide?

Yes and good luck.

[swoluelvede]

Here's a user on my site who's reported he's been able to do OBEs while retaining a physical focus:

http://www.saltcube.com/out-of-body/cha ... &p=2#16500

Bruce Moen has also written a number of books on doing this style of OBE, here's his site:

http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/start.html

This book of his is really an excellent resource:

http://www.amazon.com/Afterlife-Knowled ... 1571744509

[uncoosesoge]

Yeah its called phasing. I have been having OBEs for years, but I recently started getting into phasing. Ive been trying for a little while now with not too much luck. Its weird cuz it took me only a few days to have my first OBE, but this is taking a little longer for some reason. Its not your energy body projecting, rather its just your consiousness. But once you get the hang of it I hear its way easier than having an OBE.

[UMATURLIN]

Yeah its called phasing. I have been having OBEs for years, but I recently started getting into phasing. Ive been trying for a little while now with not too much luck. Its weird cuz it took me only a few days to have my first OBE, but this is taking a little longer for some reason. Its not your energy body projecting, rather its just your consiousness. But once you get the hang of it I hear its way easier than having an OBE.

So far all of my phasing OBEs have been while my body was asleep, I'm working on doing it while I still have some physical focus so that I can talk into a voice recorder and describe what I'm seeing but it's not easy so far.

[Ngwkgczx]

hey, fluttering eyelids - i do get that too, i never thought it was any important, i thought of that as if i'm losing concentration and my eyes are trying to open. But again, it usually comes just before the heart rate increases, and that's when my trance usually stops.

As i gathered, phasing leads you to the astral realm, but is it possible to project into the RTZ via phasing?

anyways, i'll be trying that for now.
cheers.

P.S. thanks for the links.