[ViaplyVuple]

"time does not actually exist"

Humans manage what they measure. Time is their instrument of choice.

It exists solely if you believe in it.

[Speareerfug]

"Of course one would have to believe that souls don't die."

Do souls take on another physical object after death of the physical body? If so, what form? Does it vary?

[spamkillerf]

LOL..Humans believe a lot of things...doesn't mean that they are correct or that the things they believe in are true or that they even exist.

(The world was flat at one time with Sea Monsters dwelling near the edge of the Earth that would get you even if you didn't fall off)

(Newton was 100% correct until Einstein....who was 100% correct until Quantum physics..which was 100% correct until....)

Time is not an accurate measurement since movement can influence it (faster you go the more the passage of time is "slowed down"..or so I was taught , doesn't make it tru tho...).......so..Time is fluid..(but not all physicists believe that)....not only that but some quantum physicists say that it not only moves towards the future (bear with me..LOL) but must march in the other direction also. The movement of objects can only be measured compared to another object but that whole measurement is relative....so..what is time really?

Belief itself needs to also be examined. Much of what we believe was handed to us..or was developed based on faulty assumptions..ideas that have been perpetuated throughout time and have taken a life of their own (check out the stuff on Memes), or come from another person's tainted perceptual experiences . Now...experience untainted by perception or knowledge that would color the event and lead one to develop "empty beliefs" or cause one to have a foundation of sand is more useful and actually what leads to manifestation....

"time does not actually exist"

Humans manage what they measure. Time is their instrument of choice.

It exists solely if you believe in it.

[anatmob]

"The world was flat at one time with Sea Monsters dwelling near the edge of the Earth that would get you even if you didn't fall off"

At one time "the world was flat." Why? People believed it. That is why it is so important to understand the concept of "if it ain't broke, break it." Someone had to be brave enough to explore sailing around the world to learn the circular nature.
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"so..what is time really?" Valuable (sorry, just my sense of humor).

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"Belief itself needs to also be examined."

We agree. I'll give this more thought today, and check out Memes when I have more time (probably the weekend).

[Centurnion]

"Time is not an accurate measurement since movement can influence it (faster you go the more the passage of time is "slowed down"..or so I was taught , doesn't make it tru tho...).......so..Time is fluid..(but not all physicists believe that)....not only that but some quantum physicists say that it not only moves towards the future (bear with me..LOL) but must march in the other direction also. The movement of objects can only be measured compared to another object but that whole measurement is relative....so..what is time really?

Belief itself needs to also be examined. Much of what we believe was handed to us..or was developed based on faulty assumptions..ideas that have been perpetuated throughout time and have taken a life of their own (check out the stuff on Memes), or come from another person's tainted perceptual experiences . Now...experience untainted by perception or knowledge that would color the event and lead one to develop "empty beliefs" or cause one to have a foundation of sand is more useful and actually what leads to manifestation...."

You have my attention. I'm still trying to grasp the concepts.

"So what is time really?" I don't know.

I read some on Meme. I have a very vague understanding. I think.

This will have me coming back to it until I get it. Be patient. I'm slow.

[ExelePlavisseu]

Oh my gosh...you guys mean the world is NOT flat???????????

There goes my theory on the ocean eating the sun every day.

[casefexas]

Yeah!....who knew?

Oh my gosh...you guys mean the world is NOT flat???????????

There goes my theory on the ocean eating the sun every day.

[egershna]

"Oh my gosh...you guys mean the world is NOT flat???????????"

The world is flat for many people. Seeing the circular nature (pushing the envelope) is not something many people want to do. I like to consider myself as open minded and brave; however, with that said, I reserve my right to return to the flat world, if I so choose.

Right now, I'm into the adventure with no desire to return to land. However, if and when, I desire to go to safer ground, an Amry of threats couldn't hold me.

[CindyLavender]

You know what, Jupiter?

I think you have chosen a good path.

In Taoist philosophy there are two realities and we can live in both at the same time. There is 'yo', the Manifest, the physical world, and the is 'wu', the Mystery, the spiritual world.

The ideal is to remain fully rooted in 'wu' but yet be fully aware of 'yo'. In this way our soul (spirit) can fly to the highest mountain top of dive to the deepest depths of the ocean but still, at the same time, remain on firm and familiar ground.

Peace & Love!

[IoninnyHaro]

"so..what is time really?"


"The distinction between past, present, and future is only an illusion," by Albert Einstein.

Okay, I can now accept there is only the "present."

[jokilewqs]

Okay, I can now accept there is only the "present."

Good. But, ..., yeah, there is always a but.

We should never underestimate the importance of our past experiences. They have been our learning tools. And, we should never forget that we might live again tomorrow so we should remember that what we do with our todays is going to effect our tomorrows (cause & effect).

This is the Manifest part of our essence.

The Mystery (spiritual) part of our essence is timeless; to be lived in the moment, each and every moment, without the baggage of yesterday and without the dreams of tomorrow.

Peace & Love!

[sniskelsowwef]

But what have we learned?

Most of the time since we are not living in the present we have piled more illusion on top of illusion. Since we think we are our thoughts, or our mind, we are not centered in Self anyway. Real Self plays little importance except in those moments when we transcend time and thought and are all about experience (words fail). What is learning what?

And what could we learn that has any lasting value? What can we learn that deep down in our essence we don't know already?

Certainly our minds can accumualte data and make conclusions beased on that data, but I don't think we ARE our minds. The mind is just a tool that for most has taken charge. It's like the Car drives us instead of the other way around.

As far as cause and effect...many physicists today would say the one directional approach is incorrect. (Doesn't mean they are right...but it's what many are saying)

We should never underestimate the importance of our past experiences. They have been our learning tools.

[Thifiadardivy]

But what have we learned?

Most of the time since we are not living in the present we have piled more illusion on top of illusion. Since we think we are our thoughts, or our mind, we are not centered in Self anyway. Real Self plays little importance except in those moments when we transcend time and thought and are all about experience (words fail). What is learning what?

And what could we learn that has any lasting value? What can we learn that deep down in our essence we don't know already?

Certainly our minds can accumualte data and make conclusions beased on that data, but I don't think we ARE our minds. The mind is just a tool that for most has taken charge. It's like the Car drives us instead of the other way around.

As far as cause and effect...many physicists today would say the one directional approach is incorrect. (Doesn't mean they are right...but it's what many are saying)

Hi Coffee,

Excellent! Yes, I have been down this road before with other people.

I suggest that you are speaking from the point of view of Oneness, our spiritual essence. I don't disagree with anything you have said if looked at from this point of view. Forget the past, don't worry about the future, live for the moment, experience each and every experience as if it were new and unique.

But, Remembering duality. We live in two dimensions, the spiritual and the physical. The Mystery and the Manifest.

I need remember that a stovetop might be hot. I learned that lesson. I don't touch stovetops unless I am absolutely sure that it is not hot. It's not an illusion that the stovetop might be hot - it actually might be hot.

In our physical state all things physical matter, in our spiritual state nothing physical matters. Most of the time we are somewhere between the two states.

I don't hold to the illusion that a red light at an intersection of two roads means that there is some hot chick up ahead. Red means stop. If I were living only for the moment I would proceed in order to find the hot chick.

I do not wish for this body to die needlessly. That would not be the Tao Way. I wish to preserve it so that I will die naturally according to the assets Tao had afforded me. Therefore I must learn and remember how to take care of this body.

But, in the spiritual, nothing matters. We experience the moment, embrace it, make love to it, then let it go so that we can fully experience the next moment. Every morning a new life, every experience and new experience.

What did I say? Who knows?

Anyhow, I still hold to the concept of cause and effect. Even if it is wrong it doesn't matter. That is my illusion and my way of enteracting with the Manifest.

Peace & Love!

[Nicihntm]

Oh..I would agree with you. I wouldn't say forget the past or future but REALIZE what thoughts about those things are.

I'm not about not using our thoughts, feelings or Mind...just realize that those things are not reality but reactions to reality tempered by perception and belief.

Our thoughts and mind are merely tools....when we do not directly percieve the present we view only a part of it..or worse...a totally false version. So..our memories then become memories of what isn't even close to truth, our projections of the future (which are all Past based expectaions anyway) become unrealistic. We end up emotionally attached to things and lessons which have little basis on direct experience or reality.

When the tool suggests: past data has shown that we received pain and damage when we touched a glowing blue thing on top of another object that looked just like our "stove"..... it might be a good idea not to touch it.

That is good advice to follow and can be done by still being centered in the moment. Since we are not our thoughts and reactions these things can still occur with our Consciousness centered somewhere else (In the now observing the thoughts, the sensations, the emotions, etc..).

These end up just being data or perceptions based on data. Nice if you are on Earth but is that where we are staying? Is there any release or attainment of a different place/Life/Plan/Experience?


Anyway...Namaste' Jim!

[Fiipolera]

Jim,

"What did I say? Who knows?"

I see what you are saying. You analogized it enough for good comprehension. Thanks.
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Coffee,

I have some understanding of your points too. I will come back to both posts, until the concepts sink in.

[FLOMOUSLY]

Not a fair definition, in my opinion. We cannot see beyond death and we darn sure cannot see into eternity. To speak of that which cannot be spoken is like peeing in the wind. Hehehe. (Sorry, I had to do that.)

I still have some soul left over from the other soul thread so I guess I can say that I believe in such a thing as soul.

So what is your definition of a soul? People usually define it as the immortal part of a person.

You spoke of the brain but said nothing of the mind which is much more than just the brain. Show me a mind that exists without a brain.

[fuslssdfaa]

What I meant about linear time, and a belief I've long had, is that time does not actually exist. Who else measures it besides humans?

Who else measures anything besides humans? Time is a way of measuring the change we see around us.

Or who else measures it in such arbitrary units, thinking that the face of a clock represents something that can't be examined in a lab? Our national standard for time is a radioactive element that regularly emits particles. Those emissions become our definition of seconds.

Many scientists don't believe in time. Citation?

Of course one would have to believe that souls don't die. I thought immortality was the definition of the soul.

[Clilmence]

But what have we learned?

Most of the time since we are not living in the present we have piled more illusion on top of illusion.

Whenever I hear buddhists talking this way, they usually want people to not think at all which they call meditating.
Since we think we are our thoughts, or our mind, we are not centered in Self anyway. Real Self plays little importance except in those moments when we transcend time and thought and are all about experience (words fail). I'll say. So experience has to do with something outside the natural world and life. My perception of eastern religions is that they are very anti-life, probably because life was so hard for most people when these religions began. Everything is illusion. Life is not to be enjoyed. Eat as little as possible. Think as little as possible. Nothing can be changed; it is your fate. Not hard to understand why the east remained so technologically backward where religion held sway.

What can we learn that deep down in our essence we don't know already? So why do we educate the young if they already know deep down in their essences what they need to know?

Certainly our minds can accumualte data and make conclusions beased on that data, but I don't think we ARE our minds. Then what are we? I presume you don't define people by their bodies.

As far as cause and effect...many physicists today would say the one directional approach is incorrect. (Doesn't mean they are right...but it's what many are saying) Citation?

[igs00r]

Hi Maxx,

Boy! You are in a frisky mood today. Hehehe.

So what is your definition of a soul? People usually define it as the immortal part of a person.

My soul is my subconscious mind (haha. not just the brain) and all the emotions, etc held within. Of course, I believe I have a spirit too but you didn't ask about that.

Show me a mind that exists without a brain.

Nope. Can't show it to you. It is the rest of the body's senses excluding the brain. I'll ask you a question. Have you ever seen, heard, or felt something that caused an emotional response before you fully realized what you had seen, heard, of felt? That is the mind and our subconscious brain in action. The brain has not analyzed the event but still emotions were enacted. The same goes for all inspirations, IMO. We realize something before the brain has processed the data. The "Ah Ha" moment, I think, fits into this category.

Peace & Love!

[Coellacag]

"So why do we educate the young if they already know deep down in their essences what they need to know?"

Some of it is natural selection and some of it is culture. The natural selection part is the conscience, while culture is learned from others. It should be noted that beliefs in culture should be challenged, not merely accepted.