[Abraham]

Question:

If a person believes in an impersonal God -- but does not believe in a personal God -- Is that person an Atheist? Or a believer?

I think this thread can be fun.

Jonathan Lobl

[Soulofpostar]

Question:

If a person believes in an impersonal God -- but does not believe in a personal God -- Is that person an Atheist? Or a believer?

I think this thread can be fun.

Jonathan Lobl

If someone says 'I think god is just something that started the universe but he/she does not get involved in things'

Then what does it matter if this enity exists or not? Things will go on the same with or without this being. He/she/it is a non factor in everything but the first cause.

I normaly see this argument when people see that there can not be a personal god because everything we see around us acts just as it would if there was no god(s) but they are unable to take the next step and just cut god out of the equation all together because they need to cling to the belief there is some reason for the universe.

They are not an atheist becuase they believe in a god of some kind but with just the right nudge they can be pushed off the fence into reality ..

or maybe even taoism

[remstaling]

Hey Ken!!!

You leave my Taoism alone. Hehehe.

Peace & Love!

[HoqCBYMl]

Hi Jonathan,

I think that if a person has ever prayed to God or thanked God for a blessing then I would think that they believe in a personal God.

But if, like Ken said, they do not believe in a god-being but suggested that God created the universe in six day and left it to the humans to take care of then that would be an impersonal God.

Peace & Love!

[CHEAPCIALISFORYOU]

An athiest doesn't believe in a god, impersonal or otherwise. That's what makes them... well, an atheist...

[GotActichwicy]

I agree, not an Atheist.

[Pszinygv]

Hi Jonathan,

I think that if a person has ever prayed to God or thanked God for a blessing then I would think that they believe in a personal God.

But if, like Ken said, they do not believe in a god-being but suggested that God created the universe in six day and left it to the humans to take care of then that would be an impersonal God.

Peace & Love!

The Tao is sometimes translated as "God." Still, I would not expect a Daoist to say that Tao created the world in six days.

What do you say, Jim Bob? You have stated that you are a Daoist. Are you also an Atheist? Is it possible to be both?

Jonathan Lobl

[compiit]

According to Sri Ramakrishna Paramahansa (1836-1886), God is both Personal and Impersonal. I believe like He did. I do not believe that God created the world in seven days. I believe like Meister Johannes Eckhart (1260-1327), a Christian mystic, that God created everything in an instant. But like every good Hindu knows an instant for God could be millions of years for a human being.

Hermano Luis
Moriviví Hermitage

[duawLauff]

Believing in an impersonal God would make one Agnostic ~chuckles~ provided he didn't know but believed that one existed. ~smiles~

I would surmise though that the Atheist has as much doubt about there not being a creational force as the Relious do of God inexistance ~smiles~, albeit their steadfast words used to denounce a Deity ~smiles~. And those how have Gods have the same doubt that they exist at all, but outwardly they never show it ~smiles~.

Tis human nature! ~smiles~

~Touches JimBob's Taosim~ Hmmm that just doesn't sound right ! ~chuckles~

I have a impersonal God that I have attached a personal label too! ~smiles~ He doesn't always do what I want....darn him!!! ~chuckles~

[GooogleGuy]

The Tao is sometimes translated as "God." Still, I would not expect a Daoist to say that Tao created the world in six days.

What do you say, Jim Bob? You have stated that you are a Daoist. Are you also an Atheist? Is it possible to be both?

Jonathan Lobl

Well, Jonathan. No, I would never say that Tao created anything. Tao is everything. In my example above I was using the Jewish concept of the creation.

Now, to your question.

Actually, if you would like to put more tags or labels on me I suppose it would be very appropriate to call me an Atheistic Taoist. Yes, I do believe it is possible to be both. That is why I am always specific in saying that I am a philosophical Taoist (and not a religious one).

Whenever I have suggested that the word "Tao" can be translated as "God" I am referring to those Taoists who took the philosophy and formed it into a religion. I, personally, do not hold to this translation.

There are two chapters in the Tao-Te Ching that speak to the essence of Tao. I will use Henricks' translation:

Chapter 25

1. There was something formed out of chaos,
2. That was born before Heaven and Earth.
3. Quiet and Still! Pure and deep!
4. It stands on its own and does not change.
5. It can be regarded as the mother of Heaven and Earth.
6. I do not yet know its name:
7. I "style" it "the Way."
8. Were I forced to give it a name, I would call it "the Great."

Chapter 42

1. The Way gave birth to the One.
2. The One gave birth to the Two.
3. The Two gave birth to the Three.
4. And the Three gave birth to the ten thousand things.

Now, I suppose that there are some people who could say, "Hey! That's God."

I don't. I call that what Dr. Wang refers to as Tzujan - natural processes of the universe.

Peace & Love!

[Ankeseiband]

Well, Jonathan. No, I would never say that Tao created anything. Tao is everything. In my example above I was using the Jewish concept of the creation.

Now, to your question.

Actually, if you would like to put more tags or labels on me I suppose it would be very appropriate to call me an Atheistic Taoist. Yes, I do believe it is possible to be both. That is why I am always specific in saying that I am a philosophical Taoist (and not a religious one).

Whenever I have suggested that the word "Tao" can be translated as "God" I am referring to those Taoists who took the philosophy and formed it into a religion. I, personally, do not hold to this translation.

There are two chapters in the Tao-Te Ching that speak to the essence of Tao. I will use Henricks' translation:

Chapter 25

1. There was something formed out of chaos,
2. That was born before Heaven and Earth.
3. Quiet and Still! Pure and deep!
4. It stands on its own and does not change.
5. It can be regarded as the mother of Heaven and Earth.
6. I do not yet know its name:
7. I "style" it "the Way."
8. Were I forced to give it a name, I would call it "the Great."

Chapter 42

1. The Way gave birth to the One.
2. The One gave birth to the Two.
3. The Two gave birth to the Three.
4. And the Three gave birth to the ten thousand things.

Now, I suppose that there are some people who could say, "Hey! That's God."

I don't. I call that what Dr. Wang refers to as Tzujan - natural processes of the universe.

Peace & Love!

Hmmm..... You and Greyface seem determined to make me think. Such confusing clarity....

Jonathan Lobl

[L8fGLM4d]

Hmmm..... You and Greyface seem determined to make me think. Such confusing clarity....

Jonathan Lobl

Hehehe. See what happens when you ask me a question?

My answer creates more questions than it provides answers.

But then, 'thinking' is one of the reasons we are here, isn't it?

Peace & Love!

[tabcdyop]

Hmmm..... You and Greyface seem determined to make me think. Such confusing clarity....

We try....

[TessUnsonia]

not sure what all the curiosity about athiesism is for.

a person who belivies in an impersonal god is usually called a diest.a person with a lack of belief in a god is called an athiest.and a person who is not sure,or believes that such a god cannot be known or understood by humans is called an agnostic(or a religious taoist).

[Gaiaakgyyyg]

not sure what all the curiosity about athiesism is for.

a person who belivies in an impersonal god is usually called a diest.a person with a lack of belief in a god is called an athiest.and a person who is not sure,or believes that such a god cannot be known or understood by humans is called an agnostic(or a religious taoist).

You done good, Rev. Mark.

Peace & Love!

[Trissinas]

only with lots of help from many teachers.

[Peterli]

not sure what all the curiosity about athiesism is for.

[ArraryTauTDew]

not sure what all the curiosity about athiesism is for.
.

Not Atheism per se -- the Atheist label. These words -- Atheist, Agnostic, Deist -- carry tons of invisible assumptions. I'm in the process of examining my own invisible assumptions. Thank you for your answer. I'm going to have to think about this as well.

Greyface: You have earned a blackbelt in logic.

Jim Bob: I'm still working on your last response. BTW, I'm working with the Charles Muller translation. "The Way gives rise to the One." Hmmm......

Jonathan Lobl

[Inonanialry]

Hi Jonathan,

I looked at Muller's translation of the two chapters. They seem to be acceptable to me.

Peace & Love!

[UFJon]

Thank you one and all for your responses. This is helping me refine and focus my thoughts.

A new question:

Does an impersonal God equate to God -- Or is the impersonal God just a misnamed natural process? (Thank you, Jim Bob, Greyface, Rev Mark.)

Oh crud. I'm still an Agnostic.

Jonathan Lobl