[juliannamed]

An interesting interpretation?

Can An Atheist Believe In God?Posted: 28-06-2006 | Views: 11Author: Steve Gillman

What makes an atheist? Is he or she one who says "God absolutely does not exist"? Certainly most atheists I know wouldn't say that. Unfortunately, like most religious people, most dictionaries misrepresent atheism, with definitions like "Denial of the existence of God."

What Atheists Believe

1. Evidence and experience are the proper basis for any beliefs.

2. Those who make an assertion have the responsibility to prove it.

If a person has no experience to convince him, and you can't prove the existence of God, he has no reason to believe God exists. He also has no reason to say God doesn't exist, if he cannot prove this belief. Why would he waste time trying to "prove" the non-existence in reality of a concept as nebulous as God? If someone said a blue snake in the sky ruled the universe, you wouldn't believe it, and you would be an "aserpentist," but you wouldn't start gathering evidence to "prove" that no invisible blue snake was up there, would you?

You might wonder, since atheism is simply non-belief due to unconvincing evidence, rather than an opposite belief, where does this leave agnostics? The most honest classification would be as a type of atheist. They hold open the the possibility of a god (as does any rational atheist if presented with good evidence), but since they don't actually believe in God, they are atheistic, aren't they? Perhaps those who call themselves agnostics are just afraid of the other "A" word.

Of course, words refer to something, even if it is only to ideas. In that sense, we can say God exists as an idea, and a powerful one at that. Some atheists even like various versions of this idea. God, the idea, may be the cause of wars and horrible crimes, but he (it) can also be an uplifting or at least useful concept.

We might refer to these types of ideas as "useful lies," because regardless of their truth or falsity, they can be beneficial as "operating principles." The idea that everything happens for a reason, for example, doesn't have to be true for it to be a useful belief or operating principle. It can certainly get you looking for the lessons and other values to be found in bad situations, rather than getting depressed.

We can say then that God exists, at least as a common belief, or "useful lie." This idea may even do some good in the world. What about His existence in reality? Actually, even an atheist can believe in that - the moment God comes down and shakes his hand.

Steve Gillman has been exploring new ideas for decades. Visit his site for invention ideas, business ideas, story ideas, political and economic theories, deep thoughts, and more. Get a free gift too: New Ideas (http://www.999ideas.com)


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[Rchzygnc]

i have a very difficult time with peopl who try to define something they know nothing about.as with any belief or lack thereof,the person who pratices it is the one who can best decide what it is to them.

my understanding of agnostics is that "god"is unknowable,there is no proof one way or the other.athieism on the other hand is a lack of thiesm,meaning that a"god"simply is not a part of their thoughts or life.hard line athiests will tell you"there is no god".

as with any other group,there will be differences in interpetation,and even belief.

[imporrilk]

"We might refer to these types of ideas as "useful lies," because regardless of their truth or falsity, they can be beneficial as "operating principles." The idea that everything happens for a reason, for example, doesn't have to be true for it to be a useful belief or operating principle. It can certainly get you looking for the lessons and other values to be found in bad situations, rather than getting depressed."
This was my favorite part. It points out one of my most basic beliefs. Noone can prove anything with 100% certanty. Because there comes a point where you cant prove your proof. Really? Prove it.
If it is a possibility, even if it's 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000001%, that the proof you used to prove that your proof about the proof you have given to prove that proof is in fact possible, is not true, then there is a possibility that we're all cabbages anyway.
10,000,000 fnord points to anyone who actually understood what I meant by that.... and 20,000,000 to anyone who doesn't care enough to try to figure it out...

[downtowndude]

I can't decide whether to take the 10,000,000 or the 20,000,000 fnord points. On the one hand there are many things that can and have been proven to me and I accept their validity. On the other hand, I don't believe that everything happens for a reason, some things just happen and we're vain in thinking we were either meant to figure them out or attempting to try and control everything by thinking we understand or have a reason for everything.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that an atheist can not believe in god/desses. That's not the definition of the word and it describes actual people who exist. I don't see how it can be any type of "lie" to those who hold atheistic beliefs other than looking at the person saying "yes there is a God" and thinking them to be a liar. "Non-belief due to unconvincing evidence" would be the definition of agnostic.

[Kiariitf]

Being able to accept things as fact, even though there is nothing that can be said to truly be fact, is what is meant by a 'useful lie.' Not that I'm saying you're a liar, on the contrary.
The point is that proof, truth, and belief are just as much of a farce as freedom, or laws, or ethics... These are Human concepts pasted onto a nonconceptual reality, that cares not for the silly ideas and beliefs of the insignificant species known as Man.
What does the ant believe? THAT is truth.

[bribiaLaubysdggf]

I agree. I mean, we ARE using words here. We try to get understanding and commonality by using accepted definitions. These are the ones that are found in any dictionary. The dictionary says that an atheist is: One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods. This is the standard definition and pretty easy to understand. So ..an atheist does NOT believe in God.

Now if someone wants to call themselves an Atheist and disagrees with the definition they can go right ahead, doesn't make them right. Now if I was a Mallard Duck and I decided that MY definition of Eagle was a bird that has webbed feet, swims in water and quacks, I might be inclined to call myself an Eagle. Just because I have wings and could possibly swim in water doesn't make it correct even if there was a whole sord of mallard ducks that agreed with me.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that an atheist can not believe in god/desses. That's not the definition of the word and it describes actual people who exist. I don't see how it can be any type of "lie" to those who hold atheistic beliefs other than looking at the person saying "yes there is a God" and thinking them to be a liar. "Non-belief due to unconvincing evidence" would be the definition of agnostic.

[elects]

a person who believes in the existence of a diety or higher power,by defination as we understand it would not be considered an athiest,or possibely even agnostic.as the buddha himself taught,it is really not importent to the path,and left it up to the individual to decide.that's why most but not all buddhists are defined as athiests.

however to get back on topic,for myself,i am an athiest(i have a lack of belief in thiesm).does that make me correct?to me and most others i know,yes.is it right for everyone or to everyone,no.

[i32I7qyH]

I don't see how one could have a belief in a god and remain atheist.

[dumadegg]

Being able to accept things as fact, even though there is nothing that can be said to truly be fact, is what is meant by a 'useful lie.'

IMO a useful lie is a belief like religion that many people think is necessary to keep people lawful or peaceable.

The point is that proof, truth, and belief are just as much of a farce as freedom, or laws, or ethics... I don't see freedom or laws or ethics as farcical within the human realm on this planet. I don't see any point in attempting to contemplate the cosmos; it's too big.

These are Human concepts pasted onto a nonconceptual reality, that cares not for the silly ideas and beliefs of the insignificant species known as Man.
What does the ant believe? THAT is truth. If human beings are insignificant, why is what the ant believes important?
Or am I missing your irony? Ants are not capable of believing anything about their world. Their brains are too primitive.

[Michael-jeckson2]

Hello Maxx:

I don't know what you mean by "supernatural."

People usually mean it as beyond nature, that which is eternal.

There is Unity. There is Duality. The Unity gives rise to Duality. Unity and Duality are indivisible. Are you talking yin and yang? Some would say that nature and the supernatural are a duality.
What sort of duality are you talking about?

[q9h9pPne]

Good questions Maxx. I will come in if Jonathan doesn't respond.

Peace & Love!

[Sydaycymn]

People usually mean it as beyond nature, that which is eternal.



Are you talking yin and yang? Some would say that nature and the supernatural are a duality.
What sort of duality are you talking about?

Great truths tend to be simple. If they can not be expressed simply, they tend not to be true.
You are looking for complexity where there is none.

There is Unity. Call it "One." Call it "God." Call it "Tao." Call it "Unity." The label is nothing.

Physical existence requires seperation. Call it "Duality." Call it "Time and Space." Yin and Yang are symbols of opposite characteristics. They are only symbols.

There is Unity. There is Seperation. The Seperation is how the Unity manifests. The seperation is also illusory.

Keep it simple.

Jonathan Lobl

[Annevecenqp]

"Non-belief due to unconvincing evidence" would be the definition of agnostic.

That is actually the most common definition used by atheists as well, though in my experience most would say "lack of belief" rather than "non-belief".

[Grainiary]

That is actually the most common definition used by atheists as well, though in my experience most would say "lack of belief" rather than "non-belief".

This just puts us back on the old treadmill. Without pausing to define "God" -- talk of evidence without common reference points just keeps people arguing. Much heat and little light.

Jonathan Lobl

[Ccddfergt]

Before we can decide if an Atheist, or anybody else, can believe in God; we need to define God. Seriously, this is an old problem. When Atheists and Theists argue about the existence or non-existence of God, nobody is defining what they mean by God.

What do we mean by God? There is the God of the Old Testament or the Koran. Then of course, God is: God is Love; God is the First Cause; God is Jesus on the cross, God is the "higher power; etc. The word "God" has so many meanings that it has no meaning at all.

When we can define God, then we can discuss wether or not God exists.

Jonathan Lobl

[bixlewlyimila]

Hello Jonathan,

Valid point.

Of what you presented, the only definition I hold fairly close to is: "God is the First Cause". Loosely translated, the Big Bang.

But then we have to ask, "What caused the Big Bang?"

In Taoism there is a concept called Tzujan. Basically, this is a process of "doing what it does", naturally.

Peace & Love!

[bahrains27]

Thank you, Jim Bob.

I'm a Pantheist. My favorite definition is, "God is One."

Jonathan Lobl

[vNQmO2BF]

I'm a Pantheist. My favorite definition is, "God is One."

Hi Jonathan,

Tao is One. (Same thing, different word.)

Do you know Aaron? He is a pantheist also.

Peace & Love!

[space-on-s]

Hi Jonathan,

Tao is One. (Same thing, different word.)


Peace & Love!

Does that mean I get to be "more holy than Tao?" (Forgive me. I just couldn't resist.)

Jonathan Lobl

[first_pr]

Does that mean I get to be "more holy than Tao?" (Forgive me. I just couldn't resist.)

Jonathan Lobl

Good job!

I guess you can be as holy as you wish to be. Don't forget to be human though.


Peace & Love!