[JosephEL]

I've heard it said that anything that is a ritual is a religion. It's my own belief that the dogma comes after that.

[poonnassunlix]

I've heard it said that anything that is a ritual is a religion. It's my own belief that the dogma comes after that.

I suppose that if we consider the story of the Buddhist monks tying the cat to the pole during meditation then your above statements would be very true.

Rituals are generally associated with religion.

Peace & Love!

[i6mbwwdh]

Nah..people perform rituals all the time. They do the same things in a row in the morning before going out to work. They shop on the same days in the same way. Get home and watch their same 3 TV shows on a certain night. The dress themselves in the same way with the same repetition. These are all rituals and not necessarily linked to religion.

The etymology of the word is :
c.1200, "state of life bound by monastic vows," also "conduct indicating a belief in a divine power," from Anglo-Fr. religiun (11c.), from O.Fr. religion "religious community," from L. religionem (nom. religio) "respect for what is sacred, reverence for the gods," in L.L. "monastic life" (5c.); according to Cicero, derived from relegare "go through again, read again," from re- "again" + legere "read" (see lecture). However, popular etymology among the later ancients (and many modern writers) connects it with religare "to bind fast" (see rely), via notion of "place an obligation on," or "bond between humans and gods." Another possible origin is religiens "careful," opposite of negligens. Meaning "particular system of faith" is recorded from c.1300.


So..I would say Atheism is not a religion (unless all philosphies or belief systems can be considered "religion"). (Just my 2 cents...not worth that much in the long run...LOL)

[MrsGoo]

Well, I am going to offer you 1.5 cents for your last comments. That is my final offer!

You know, I thought about that while posting my last comments. I do have morning rituals. I really do try to avoid rituals but life just goes smoother sometimes if one follows given procedures.

Yeah. Procedures. I have no rituals - I have procedures. Hehehe.

But back to Atheists. I think that it would be fair to say that they are ir-religious. But they do, after all, have a belief system in that they believe in the value of science.

Peace & Love!

[OQmYckYz]

Come on. Someone disagree with me. I am trying to evolve Atheism into a religion.

Peace & Love!

[dolaBeetCeage]

I do not know if atheism is a religion or not, but some atheists act, and speak with religious zeal.

Hermano Luis

[ONLINEPHARMACYCHEAPILLS]

I do not know if atheism is a religion or not, but some atheists act, and speak with religious zeal.

Hermano Luis

Thank you, Luis. That's a start.

So would it be safe to say that our actions and reactions are a good descriptor of our belief system? And if that be so then if they defend or preach their belief system with the same amount of zeal as a religious zealot does would that not show that aspect of character to be equal with both the religious zealot and the Atheist?

Peace & Love!

[cymnPrayerm]

I've got two books of the Lost Books sitting on the bookshelf FT. They're interesting reads. One is by, and don't quote me on this, Bart Erhlman. (?) He put together a book about the Lost Books, and then a book containing the lost books themselves.

Oddly enough, these books have been revealed, authenticated, and anything else they needed to validate their authenticity, and I'm still unaware of The Church saying much about them. Especially since it's believed that they hold many texts in their own vaults, and have for decades, that authenticate them too.

I enjoy reading the lost gospels myself. The church doesn't recognize them because they go against church doctrine and belief. They were all written after the four nt gospels and by different sects of christianity. Asking them to accept the gospels to be a part of their doctrine is equivalent to asking them to accept the book of mormon and vice versa.

[Kliopeion]

Not at all. Religions believe in the supernatural for which there is no scientific evidence, just myths and anecdotes. Atheism is the lack of belief in the supernatural. Atheists demand evidence rather than eternal reward stories.

When I was an atheist I used the lack of belief argument. Mainly because it made me feel less connected to the belief in God. I have seen atheists use this argument time and again yet all of them believed there was no god. IMO it's a dishonest claim.

You can't "lack a belief" in a concept unless you are totally unaware of the concept itself. You can choose to believe in a concept or not to believe in a concept upon being aware of it. Or you can choose a nuetral position.


However most of the world is aware of the concept of god(s). You are aware of the concept of god. Therefore you cannot "lack a belief" in this concept. You have chosen not to believe in this concept just as others have chosen to believe it. Or just have others have chosen they do not or cannot know.

This is why we have the terms atheist, agnostic, and theist.
Which break down like this.

Atheist; coming from the latin a theos which means without god(s). Who has chosen not to believe in god(s).

Agnostic. Have chosen the belief that they cannot know whether or not this concept of god(s) is knowable and therefore maintain a neutral open stance.

Theist. Believes this concept of god(s) to be true.

[sapedotru]

Thank you, Luis. That's a start.

So would it be safe to say that our actions and reactions are a good descriptor of our belief system? And if that be so then if they defend or preach their belief system with the same amount of zeal as a religious zealot does would that not show that aspect of character to be equal with both the religious zealot and the Atheist?

Peace & Love!

I would have to say yes.

[pprropeciaaa]

All right. Now we are getting somewhere.

(By the way, everyone is invited to join in on this. It might be an interesting journey.)

So. If the Atheist and the religious zealot both have this character trait in common then they are both adherants of a belief system. The Atheist of Science based on fact and the religious of God based on inspired intuition.

And they both live their life according to their beliefs.

Thou shalt not kill. For the religious, to kill would be damnation; for the Atheist, to kill would be the rest of your life in jail. Same result.

What about the root of the two beliefs?

The Atheist believes the 'Big Bang' is the source of everything. The religious believes God created everything. What if God caused the 'Big Bang'?

I wonder. Atheists generally object to thoughts of non-physical reality. What about the Atheist who imagines a vehicle that is operated by an engine and then builds one? Isn't this imagination a form of non-physical reality?

Just wondering.

Peace & Love!

[Elelaytet]

~ Humans are social creatures.
Society cannot function smoothly if murder & random harm is allowed.
Whether it's by religious creed, judicial law or moral tenets, it's a survival trait.

& yeah, evidently there was a big *bang*, whatever was getting going got it done!
{I'm not gonna use any masturbation analogy because that would be rude.}

... Just curious...
If one doesn't believe in the Easter Bunny, does that mean they do believe but deny the existence of it? & y'know, leprechauns & unicorns, other Gods?

'God' is a word with a lot of connotations;
'The Creator'
'Jesus'
'Lord'
'Father'
If someone doesn't believe in all of those images, what does that mean?

I don't intend to be obnoxious or anything! Truly!

[HitAttetlyTek]

~ Humans are social creatures.
Society cannot function smoothly if murder & random harm is allowed.
Whether it's by religious creed, judicial law or moral tenets, it's a survival trait.

& yeah, evidently there was a big *bang*, whatever was getting going got it done!
{I'm not gonna use any masturbation analogy because that would be rude.}

... Just curious...
If one doesn't believe in the Easter Bunny, does that mean they do believe but deny the existence of it? & y'know, leprechauns & unicorns, other Gods?

'God' is a word with a lot of connotations;
'The Creator'
'Jesus'
'Lord'
'Father'
If someone doesn't believe in all of those images, what does that mean?

I don't intend to be obnoxious or anything! Truly!

Hey Q,
How ya doing?

No it just means that they don't believe in the easter bunny. They don't "lack a belief" in the easter bunny. They don't believe (keyword believe, coming from the word belief). Now if one can prove it does or does not exist then it would stop being a matter of belief and be a mater of fact. Since one cannot really prove either way at the time it remains a matter of belief. You either believe, don't believe, or choose a nuetral belief. This has no effect on whether or not the bunny is real.
Remember faith is believing in the absence of proof.

[Toivaluadiora]

Hi Qryos & Blackthorn,

Interesting. It is possible to prove something exists but I suggest that it is not possible to prove something does not exist.

But then, what does one say to a person who believes the Easter Bunny exists?

Just because I might not believe that it exists does that make it non-existant? I suggest: No.

All I can really say is that I believe that it does not exist because, to the best of my knowledge, no one has proven beyond a shadow of doubt that it does exist.

A Christian believes in the existance of God and most base their beliefs and their life on this understanding.

An Atheist believes in Science and Knowledge and most base their beliefs and their life on this understanding.

And even if one were able to prove that something does not exist at this very moment in time would that make that proof universal? Afterall, all that is is in constant change - nothing is static. Even the Sciences have to modify their 'facts' periodically because of new-found 'proof'.

And besides, reality is what each individual believes it to be for them. My 'proof of reality' of something might be total nonsense to someone else.

One definition of religion is: a cause, principle, or belief held to with faith and ardor

Does not an Atheist hold to this understanding?

Peace & Love!

[bWn4h8QD]

Hey Jimbob

That's pretty close to what I think too.

[*Playergirl*]

~ Hi Jimbob, thank you!
Don't Christians believe in science & knowledge also?
It's just, well, elevators & telephones & computers & such...

"One definition of religion is: a cause, principle, or belief held to with faith and ardor"
... That I can understand clearly.
But wouldn't that also define feminism & environmentalism & racism & other 'ism's as religions also?

I'm not an Atheist myself, more of an Agnostic {usually! lol}
I'm not a Christian in any way.
I do find some spiritual beliefs resonate beautifully, & certainly give comfort & grant lovely symmetry.

[zU8KbeIU]

Don't Christians believe in science & knowledge also?
It's just, well, elevators & telephones & computers & such...

Indeed, most do. There are many religious followers who are also scientists. I have always agrued that science and religion need not be opposite ends of a line. The two, IMO, are very compatible.

"One definition of religion is: a cause, principle, or belief held to with faith and ardor"
But wouldn't that also define feminism & environmentalism & racism & other 'ism's as religions also?

In my mind it would. I think that it is possible to follow any belief system to such a degree that the belief system actually becomes a religion for that person. The only thing lacking would be a spirituality aspect. But I suppose that one could create one's own spirituality and god.

I do find some spiritual beliefs resonate beautifully, & certainly give comfort & grant lovely symmetry.

That is a point I try to make as often as I can. Any religion or belief system has components that are close to being what might be called "universal beliefs". The writtings of the founders of all religions had something good to say to all of us.

I think that it is not necessary to be a Christian (or whatever) to believe in some of the teachings of that religion.

I just turn defiant when someone tells me that I have to think exactly like they do; whether it be a Christian, Buddhist, or Atheist. As I have said many times before, whatever helps you get through your life without causing harm to others is good for you.

Peace & Love!

[Diwokfkq]

I have known a few Atheists in my life. And most of them just accept that for them, their is no God.

But I also have noticed a brand of what might be termed Fundementalist Atheism, where they feel the need to convince everyone else that God dosen't exist.

It seems to me that for the fundementalist atheists, their form of atheism takes on a religious tone. One could almost say in some cases, it's an anti-theistic religion.

I've always been courious as to why some Atheists seem to feel the need to do anything and everything to convince others to their point of view.

If God dosen't exist, then why argue about it? I don't try to convince people that the Easter Bunny dosen't exist, or that Santa dosen't exist. Why would I? Why would i give a damn if you did?

Indeed, if you did believe that Santa existed, I would simply internally shake my head and write the person off as misinfortmed or seriously delusional. Even if everyone in my apartment complex believed that Santa existed, I still wouldn't make it my mission to convince them otherwise.

I can understand in some cases, where a religious group is forcing an Atheist to deny their beliefs or to force school prayer on their kids, but outside of that, I really don't see the point.

I have heard of websites where people are encouraged to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and deny god on video. What's the point?

So, as funny as it may seem, IMHO, for some Atheists, their atheism is a proseltyzing religion dedicated to pushing fundementalist Atheism on other people.

In my own opinion, I could care less. Atheists should be able to express their beliefs, and I don't deny that. But why make such a big deal about a non-existing High Power? You might as well argue over the Smurfs or how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

[tweriaroats]

Hi Patriarch Eden,

Let me first suggest that Atheism is a belief system, just like Taoism, Islam, Budddhism and Christianity.

Their belief is that there is no "God".

No, that seems simple. But something is going on in the US and around the world and it is causing waves and counter-waves.

It is called (forcefull) fundementalism. One group who believes in a concept trying to force everyone else to believe and live according to their standards.

We have seen this regarding the schools in the US where the Atheists have caused changes in laws governing what happens and what can't happen in our schools. Then the Christian fundementalists fight back and try to make changes to the changes.

And now we see the fundemental Moslems trying to force their beliefs and way of life on other peoples. I really don't like what I am seeing because it is giving more people of the world reasons to hate others. And this is sad.

Hopefully the moderates of all belief systems will hold to the middle path and prevent the extremists from gaining too much power. And yes, that is what it is, bottom line. People wanting to have power over others. And that is sad, in my opinion.

Peace & Love!

[Vikonbarius]

It is called (forcefull) fundementalism.

Do others (non-atheists) have a similar reaction to evangelicals and missionaries?

Any Wiccans (for example) care to share?

How does it make you feel when someone is at your door selling religion?

Does it make you want to respond in kind and tell your view on things?