[Staillateno]

Ok lets try this. Correct me if I am wrong. I will then add the relevent ones to the list.

Folks usually don't know who they are regardless of what they think or believe (me)
People normally delude themselves about who they are.

Folks usually act in a way that reflects they don't know (me)
People usually do things based on this self delusion.

Folks will do almost anything not to know (me)
People will rationalize things to hold on to this self delusion.

There is usually pleasure when folks act out of the experience of who they really are (me)
When people go beyond this delusion the experience is normally happy.

I am trying to be who I am (me)
Try to avoid self delusion

I do this by seeing thoughts and beliefs for what they really are, thoughts and beliefs and nothing more. (me)
Examine all your thoughts and beliefs in a critical light.


I see that "I" is a thought too (me)
Got me here, though it has a tinge of metaphysics about it so I will exclude it unless you can define it better.


Helping others to see themselves authentically seems to make it more pleasurable all around. (me)
Help others to see through their own self delusions.

I see the core elements to be.
Try to avoid self delusion
Examine all your thoughts and beliefs in a critical light.
Help others to see through their own self delusions.

What is "one" or "they" or "us" or "I"?

What is "outside" or "inside"?

What is "time"?


LOL......just playing....I think I'll stay in topic and wait for some feedback on my last post from Ken.

Hope everyone had a good holiday, I know I did by the tune of probably ten extra pounds

I am hoping to get more input into this thread I don't think four or five anwers will be a big enough sample to say anything conclusive but I think that it would show that with all the supernatural stuff stripped away we are left with some variation of the golden rule.

[immewaycypef]

I would like to conduct an experment of sorts.

Please list the tenets or beliefs of your chosen faith WITHOUT any of the mystical/supernatural clutter.

Basicly if you can't answer the question 'why' of any tenet without envoking something supernatural it does not belong on the list.

Also list any religion your familar enough with to comment on, this will give a broader range of answers.

I have a hypothisis about this that I will share when we have the list compiled.

This should be interesting.

The list of tenets:

Observe the processes of nature and learn. Taoism, philosophical
Live your life as it makes you happy. Taoism, philosophical
Avoid that which is detrimental to health and happiness. Taoism, philosophical

[Usogwdkb]

Hi Ken,

Looks like I get to be first in responding.

My belief system is based upon philosophical Taoism.

We have no dogma and the closest thing I can relate to as being a tenet is this:

Observe the processes of Nature and learn these processes. Conduct yourself in such a manner that you have observed that brings contentment and long life and avoid those things that bring discontent and leads to an early death.

In a nutshell, that's all there is to it.

Peace & Love!

[nanyaHgoc]

Hi Ken,

Looks like I get to be first in responding.

My belief system is based upon philosophical Taoism.

We have no dogma and the closest thing I can relate to as being a tenet is this:

Observe the processes of Nature and learn these processes. Conduct yourself in such a manner that you have observed that brings contentment and long life and avoid those things that bring discontent and leads to an early death.

In a nutshell, that's all there is to it.

Peace & Love!

Thank you JimBob.

If I may paraphrase and break it down into easy to use chunks.

Observe the processes of nature and learn.
Live your life as it makes you happy
Avoid that which is detrimental to health and happiness.

I am adding these to the original post as three tenets. When another philosophy/religion holds these same tenents I will make notes to reflect such.

I find it curious there was no mention of how to apply that in dealing with other people in social environments.

[illignocearia]

Folks usually don't know who they are regardless of what they think or believe (me)
Folks usually act in a way that reflects they don't know(me)
Folks will do almost anything not to know (me)

There is usually pleasure when folks act out of the experience of who they really are (me)

I am trying to be who I am (me)
I do this by seeing thoughts and beliefs for what they really are, thoughts and beliefs and nothing more. (me)
I see that "I" is a thought too (me)
Helping others to see themselves authentically seems to make it more pleasurable all around. (me)

There is obviously some influence from Zen, Taoism, and Advaita, rippled through those statements. But that would make them beliefs, I'm just stating what I experience.

I would like to conduct an experment of sorts.

Please list the tenets or beliefs of your chosen faith WITHOUT any of the mystical/supernatural clutter.

Basicly if you can't answer the question 'why' of any tenet without envoking something supernatural it does not belong on the list.

Also list any religion your familar enough with to comment on, this will give a broader range of answers.

I have a hypothisis about this that I will share when we have the list compiled.

This should be interesting.

The list of tenets:

Observe the processes of nature and learn. Taoism, philosophical
Live your life as it makes you happy. Taoism, philosophical
Avoid that which is detrimental to health and happiness. Taoism, philosophical

[esanamaserrn]

I would like to conduct an experment of sorts.

Please list the tenets or beliefs of your chosen faith WITHOUT any of the mystical/supernatural clutter.

Basicly if you can't answer the question 'why' of any tenet without envoking something supernatural it does not belong on the list.

Also list any religion your familar enough with to comment on, this will give a broader range of answers.

I have a hypothisis about this that I will share when we have the list compiled.

This should be interesting.

The list of tenets:

Observe the processes of nature and learn. Taoism, philosophical
Live your life as it makes you happy. Taoism, philosophical
Avoid that which is detrimental to health and happiness. Taoism, philosophical

It might be easier if you gave us a better example or a list of words we can use?! ~smiles~ Are we suppose to use the words Toaism and Philosophy? Or can we use names of gods, religions ,etc?

I would like to help but I R confused!

1) Keep the Feasts Holy [Solstices] (Norseman)
2) Live by the 9 Noble Virtues [courage, honor, hospitality, independence (and liberty), individuality (with self-reliance and self-responsibility), industriousness (and perseverance), justice (including an innate sense of fairness and respect for others), loyalty (to family, friends, and the society of which one is a part), truthfulness, and a willingness to stand up for what is right.] (Norseman)
3) A practicioner of magic (Norseman)

or even easier:
1) Reverance for the Earth
2) Nine Noble Principles (Asa Gods)
3) Practice Ritual Magics

I can't live my life without my magic, I have tried it sucks, and it is the 3rd tenant of the Norse Relgion, so?... ~chuckles~

[HagsPusia]

It might be easier if you gave us a better example or a list of words we can use?! ~smiles~ Are we suppose to use the words Toaism and Philosophy? Or can we use names of gods, religions ,etc?

I would like to help but I R confused!

1) Keep the Feasts Holy [Solstices] (Norseman)
2) Live by the 9 Noble Virtues [courage, honor, hospitality, independence (and liberty), individuality (with self-reliance and self-responsibility), industriousness (and perseverance), justice (including an innate sense of fairness and respect for others), loyalty (to family, friends, and the society of which one is a part), truthfulness, and a willingness to stand up for what is right.] (Norseman)
3) A practicioner of magic (Norseman)

or even easier:
1) Reverance for the Earth
2) Nine Noble Principles (Asa Gods)
3) Practice Ritual Magics

I can't live my life without my magic, I have tried it sucks, and it is the 3rd tenant of the Norse Relgion, so?... ~chuckles~

Defining what religion the tenets come from is prefered. I would like to know where its drawn from.

Once you state the tenet or belief you must ask the question of it 'why' if you have to invoke anything supernatural to answer then the tenet is not acceptable for this experment.

As an example from what you listed above.

1) Reverance for the earth. If you can explain why this is importanat to your religion/philosophy without invoking anything supernatural then its acceptable.

3) Practice Ritual magics. I am 99.99999% sure you can not answer the question 'why' without a supernatural explanation so this would not make the list.

I hope I cleared it up.

[PaulRyansew]

Folks usually don't know who they are regardless of what they think or believe (me)
Folks usually act in a way that reflects they don't know(me)
Folks will do almost anything not to know (me)

There is usually pleasure when folks act out of the experience of who they really are (me)

I am trying to be who I am (me)
I do this by seeing thoughts and beliefs for what they really are, thoughts and beliefs and nothing more. (me)
I see that "I" is a thought too (me)
Helping others to see themselves authentically seems to make it more pleasurable all around. (me)

There is obviously some influence from Zen, Taoism, and Advaita, rippled through those statements. But that would make them beliefs, I'm just stating what I experience.

Thanks Coffee,

Going to take some time to distill these into easly digestable bits for the list.

[brorialsibers]

LOL - Good luck !

Thanks Coffee,

Going to take some time to distill these into easly digestable bits for the list.

[aideriimibion]

LOL - Good luck !

Ok lets try this. Correct me if I am wrong. I will then add the relevent ones to the list.

Folks usually don't know who they are regardless of what they think or believe (me)
People normally delude themselves about who they are.

Folks usually act in a way that reflects they don't know (me)
People usually do things based on this self delusion.

Folks will do almost anything not to know (me)
People will rationalize things to hold on to this self delusion.

There is usually pleasure when folks act out of the experience of who they really are (me)
When people go beyond this delusion the experience is normally happy.

I am trying to be who I am (me)
Try to avoid self delusion

I do this by seeing thoughts and beliefs for what they really are, thoughts and beliefs and nothing more. (me)
Examine all your thoughts and beliefs in a critical light.


I see that "I" is a thought too (me)
Got me here, though it has a tinge of metaphysics about it so I will exclude it unless you can define it better.


Helping others to see themselves authentically seems to make it more pleasurable all around. (me)
Help others to see through their own self delusions.

I see the core elements to be.
Try to avoid self delusion
Examine all your thoughts and beliefs in a critical light.
Help others to see through their own self delusions.

[Flankrene]

Thank you JimBob.

If I may paraphrase and break it down into easy to use chunks.

Observe the processes of nature and learn.
Live your life as it makes you happy
Avoid that which is detrimental to health and happiness.

I am adding these to the original post as three tenets. When another philosophy/religion holds these same tenents I will make notes to reflect such.

I find it curious there was no mention of how to apply that in dealing with other people in social environments.

Hi Ken,

The words are fine although I prefer 'contentment' as opposed to 'happy'. Happy is a result of contentment. Don't change what you have done, I just wanted to note that.

As to dealing with people, people are a part of Nature. We observe them the same way we observe an alley cat or any other social or antisocial animal.

Peace & Love!

[VZF74G0M]

Hi Ken,

The words are fine although I prefer 'contentment' as opposed to 'happy'. Happy is a result of contentment. Don't change what you have done, I just wanted to note that.

As to dealing with people, people are a part of Nature. We observe them the same way we observe an alley cat or any other social or antisocial animal.

Peace & Love!

What I was commenting on is the observe and learn without a motivation to get involved. That may be for another discussion since I don't want to clutter up this thread with philosophical discussions. Or it may have been implied and I just didn't get it.

[ulw7A8Po]

Hi Ken,

Comment noted. Yes, different discussion.

Peace & Love!

[casinobonuswer]

Self-knowledge (atma jñana)--- Sanatana Veda Dharma
Non-violence (ahimsa)----------- Sanatana Veda Dharma
Austerity, discipline of body and mind (tapasya)- Sanatana Veda Dharma.

[inhitoemits]

Self-knowledge (atma jñana)--- Sanatana Veda Dharma
Non-violence (ahimsa)----------- Sanatana Veda Dharma
Austerity, discipline of body and mind (tapasya)- Sanatana Veda Dharma.

These are Jain if I am not mistaken.

I will add these to the list probably wont get much computer time till after Thanksgiving though.

[Celeliamend]

Defining what religion the tenets come from is prefered. I would like to know where its drawn from.

Once you state the tenet or belief you must ask the question of it 'why' if you have to invoke anything supernatural to answer then the tenet is not acceptable for this experment.

As an example from what you listed above.

1) Reverance for the earth. If you can explain why this is importanat to your religion/philosophy without invoking anything supernatural then its acceptable.

3) Practice Ritual magics. I am 99.99999% sure you can not answer the question 'why' without a supernatural explanation so this would not make the list.

I hope I cleared it up.

1) Reverence for the Earth...why? Because the Earth is neccesary for my existance.

2) Nine Noble Principles...why? Helps to create harmony and integrity within my society.

3) Magic Practitioner...why? It helps me clear my mind and get rid of crap in it...that is very physical and non arcane ~smiles~.

[adunnyByday]

Folks usually don't know who they are regardless of what they think or believe (me)
People normally delude themselves about who they are.
(yes...but the thought and belief part is important)

Folks usually act in a way that reflects they don't know (me)
People usually do things based on this self delusion.
(not exactly right but too subtle to explain in words)

Folks will do almost anything not to know (me)
People will rationalize things to hold on to this self delusion.
(it's beyond rationalization..that limits it to conscious thought..it's deeper than that)

There is usually pleasure when folks act out of the experience of who they really are (me)
When people go beyond this delusion the experience is normally happy.
(close enough..again..words basically suck because you are trying to describe experience with illusion)

I am trying to be who I am (me)
Try to avoid self delusion
(The "being" part is very important here)

I do this by seeing thoughts and beliefs for what they really are, thoughts and beliefs and nothing more. (me)
Examine all your thoughts and beliefs in a critical light.
(nope...actually..they don't have to be examined in a critical light...if you just LOOK at them..you will see them for what they are...critical light means you are using reason, thoughts and belief and that's the whole issue)


I see that "I" is a thought too (me)
Got me here, though it has a tinge of metaphysics about it so I will exclude it unless you can define it better.
It is explained...the fact you are a "you" or believe in a "you" is incorrect..mislead..."you' is just a thought..it must be experienced otherwise it's a belief or an idea or a thought and that's my whole point. The fact that you haven't experienced it doesn't make it metaphysics, it just means you can't see it. It's very real and simple. It's basic..no "Meta" anything. That's because of that "delusion" you mentioned earlier. It's a core tenet.

Helping others to see themselves authentically seems to make it more pleasurable all around. (me)
Help others to see through their own self delusions.
(close enough)

I see the core elements to be.
Try to avoid self delusion (ok)
Examine all your thoughts and beliefs in a critical light. (nope)
Help others to see through their own self delusions. (ok)

But you're missing some. They are all core elements. I thought this through and it's really volumes of stuff boiled down. ( I am sure you noticed there is no requirement to believe in a "Deity" in there)

[velichay]

These are Jain if I am not mistaken.

Sorry their not Jain. Jains share it with the Sanatana Veda Dharma and Buddhism. Sanatana Veda Dharma is the oldest expression. Both Buddhism and Jainism were reinterpretations of the older Sanatana Veda Dharma.

Hermano Luis

[SetSnonejog]

[quote=KenC;133084]I would like to conduct an experment of sorts.

Please list the tenets or beliefs of your chosen faith WITHOUT any of the mystical/supernatural clutter.

Basicly if you can't answer the question 'why' of any tenet without envoking something supernatural it does not belong on the list.

Also list any religion your familar enough with to comment on, this will give a broader range of answers.

I have a hypothisis about this that I will share when we have the list compiled.

This should be interesting.

The list of tenets:

Well, as a minister of the Universal Life Church -- the only tenet of the faith I'm stuck with is
"Do what is right." Why? Because it's right.

How's that for dumping the mystical clutter?

Jonathan Lobl

[Cd9JfGHR]

I don't realy hold to any 'tenants'.

As a Discordian, and an Anarchist, I feel that 'The world is perfect just the way it is, right down to every last flaw." And what better reason is there to make it better?

As RA Wilson said: "In conclusion, there is no conclusion. Things go on as they always have, getting weirder all the time."