[maclaudser]

The rest:

tectonics.org

[Angeheade]

Are they all valid arguments? Do you care if they are? Can you disprove them all and always arrive at the conclusion that God exists?

[StitsVobsaith]

Reads like a dirty laundry list of excuses as well as very opinionated



They have a right to there opinions as well as I and others do.

So that means if I say the Gods exists then they must

[arreskslarlig]

That would seem to be an appropriate conclusion TC. The author of these reasons has actually collected them from others' arguments, from a site at one of our banners at the bottom of The Board.

[spapsinee]

ARGUMENT FROM LACK OF PROOF
You can't prove God exists!
Therefore, God doesn’t exist. Sadly, this is what it all amounts to...I guess if "God" wants to be believed as existing, He/She/It needs to do something about this problem right here!!! BUT, even then, would people believe???

[theatadug]

That may be true. Once again though, who is having the best experiences with their deity? In my view it is those who are mixing a great deal of faith in with anything they view as logical about it all. Even some mysticism. It has a great deal to do with how someone views the world and Universe too, how they have chosen to explain or interpret things that they see to themselves.

For me, it would be great to be able to prove beyond all doubt that deity exists to any and everyone. I have only been able to do that for myself and it happened very much by accident.

[2puO4Rhf]

I don't think that's quite the reasoning we're looking for there Rick. My own reasoning would go something like God/dess does not exist except for my visions and intepretations of them. S/he doesn't exist except by my beliefs.

[Trebbinsa]

I haven't bothered to read all 300, but the ones that say I cannot conceive of a god or creation is too complex for me to conceive... are arguments from incredulity which is a logical fallacy and therefore not a valid argument. A lot of the so-called arguments didn't appear to me to have any logic.

[exettybele]

I saw a similar list of stupid arguments used to prove the existence of God.

Some common ones:

The Bible says there is a God.
The Bible says it is the word of God.
Therefore God exists.

Disease exists.
Something must cause diseases.
Therefore God exists.

Earthquakes and other natural phenomena exist.
Something must cause them.
Therefore God exists.

[corsar-caribean]

Every statement made about a deity is strictly opinion.

[goldeneggs]

As is anyone's opinion of another's opinion of a deity. er...ahem....Constantly teetering on the...um.......totter(?) of agnosticism I wish that I were always able to make statements that were always so certain. For instance, a Christian, a very devout, etc., etc., etc., might state that no, their God is not an opinion.

[Everwondopedo]

The amusing part of all of this is that the list has been around for years, but someone has done a simple "search and replace" on it. The original title was "Over Three Hundred Proofs of God’s Existence (adapted from a forum on the Internet Infidels)" and the first few were:

TRANSCENDENTAL ARGUMENT
(1) God exists.
(2) If God exists, then if reason exists then God exists.
(3) Reason exists.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

COSMOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
(1) If I say something must have a cause, it has a cause.
(2) I say the universe must have a cause.
(3) Therefore, the universe has a cause.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (I)
(1) I define God to be X.
(2) Since I can conceive of X, X must exist.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT (II)
(1) I can conceive of a perfect God.
(2) One of the qualities of perfection is existence.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

MODAL ONTOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
(1) God exists.
(2) God, existing, is either necessary or unnecessary.
(3) God is not unnecessary, therefore God must be necessary.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT
(1) Check out the world/universe/giraffe. Isn't it complex?
(2) Only God could have made them so complex.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM BEAUTY (aka TELEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT II)
(1) Isn't that baby/sunset/flower/tree beautiful?
(2) Only God could have made them so beautiful.
(3) Therefore, God exists.

ARGUMENT FROM MIRACLES
(1) My aunt had cancer.
(2) The doctors gave her all these horrible treatments.
(3) My aunt prayed to God and now she doesn't have cancer.
(4) Therefore, God exists.


and so on . . .

[fygESytT]

This is what happens when doofs like me come into a forum and post without reading everything first.

I just noticed that Rakehel had already posted a thread on these; sorry about that.

[bp9QxekG]

That's alright Samuron. I believe that Internet Infidels had some version of both lists.

[Inonanialry]

it has always rattled my brain
that God always existed. When I was
a child and asked my dad about this
he said, " Great scientist have gone
insane thinking about that question"
so I gave up pursuing this question
of, " How come God has always
existed"

[chadnezzrr]

I guess it always comes down to a personal choice of whether one believes in God.
Here are 533 reasons why God exists:- (well it will have to be on the next message as I am not allowed to add links yet.)
Whether someone would want to accept them again would come down to personal choice.

[poispanna]

533 reasons God exists.
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm

Please also see above.

[prmnwoks]

I see it this way:-

I believe God exists.
I then debate in what form God takes.
To do that I recognise God exists.

I am not sure if God exists.
I then debate whether there is a God or not.
To do that I recognise only the possibility of a God.

I do not believe God exists.
I then do not debate anything because
I do not recognise any such existence to discuss.

It seems that what ever you believe
will affect the way in which one approaches the issue
and the outcome one comes too..

[elects]

What if it's not a question of belief? Say, for instance, that there is just no "feeling" about God? No awareness or even a thought about it? Neither a proclamation for nor one against God?

[carpartsho]

There is a view that once someone believes they know something then there is a tendency to stop questioning because there is the presumption (conscious or subconscious) that they know this already.
This is human nature. Its only when life events press for change or they make a conscious decision to suspend their own view that the mind becomes more open to other possibilities.
This view is found in counselling. If you read Patrick Casements book "on listening to the Patient" he talks about the need for counsellors to suspend their knowing when listening to a client because they miss so much as to what is said if they come to the conclusion they know what the client's issue is to soon.
Similarly I believe this is with a belief or a disbelief in the presence of God. No one has been able as far as I know to define God and if you listen you find that we all seem to have differing views.
For example:- if one was to describe God as a being sitting in the clouds and raining judgement upon everyone, then I suspect I would stand shoulder to shoulder with the athiests.
If you were to define God as belief that there is a universal consciousness within all things and has state beyond that which we know of the material world then I suspect I would stand with the theists.
Others may see things differently again. The issue for me is how is a person defining God as to whether I personally believe or not.