[seosoftseo]

Ah, leave it to the Discordia to state so well, what I used to abuse the English language.
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A Sermon on Reality
Being a Trip in eight (23!) schizms

1. The Search
Is Eris real? asked Grandfather Mal
who'd suddenly lapsed in his faith
For I must admit that this very question
has greatly confused me of late
So Mal travelled far, yea he travelled wide
and five diff'rent sources he bade

2. The Goddess
Eris herself will certainly know!
spoke Mal at the start of his quest
Alas, I'm not real, said Eris when asked
but you'd best put my words to the test
I may not exist, but you know that I am
a mischievous liar at best!

3. The Sceptic
A definite fake, the sceptic just stated
No shred of evidence to be had!
If you cannot prove it, t'is simply not true
but a fable or nonsense instead
(And since he could not prove that he was real
the sceptic disappeared where he sat)

4. The Scientist
Is she not labeled? the scientist queried
She sounds like a plotdevice to me
Or perhaps a parable, but I cannot be sure
Things need to be labeled, you see!
Real things have names, and tags and measures
I propose: Eris (Divina Discordii)

5. The Philosopher
Is a unicorn real? The Philosopher riddled
and the thought of such a beast?
What is wisdom to me may be rubbish to you
but I'll tell you this at least:
The true test of being - Is it still real
after all thought upon it has ceased?

6. The Pragmatist
She's not as real as my food, the paragmatic said
not as real as a brook or a stream
But has a simple idea ever changed your life?
or a feeling, a thought or a dream?
These things have the power to influence us
however unreal they may seem

7. The Truth
There is a wasp on your ear! I see in your eyes
the sudden panic that you must now feel
But now, if I tell you that I simply lied
is the fear you felt any less real?
Then what does it matter? the pragmatic shrugged
and he silently finished his meal

8. The End
Ah Eris! Not real, but real enough
as a great many things are today
A plotdevice, riddle, a joke and much more
a dream and a goddess they say
Oh, man lives in dreams, in fiction and fancy
in dreaming may we ever stay!
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[Quick$bux]

I do not know whether to debate with you using distorted limericks or to change your title to Tribal Threadkiller.

If one believes but doesn't believe, are they an Agnostic?

[yK2VgoEI]

Both! Well, maybe not the limricks... perhaps haiku?

As for your question- what is belief, but saying, "I can't prove this to be real, but I choose to act as if it is anyway..."?

[buyviagraonlineusatoday]

I think I understand why a forum of this nature has so much trouble garnering interest. It's all a moot point. No matter what their spiritual path or religion nobody can prove there is a god/dess anyway, right? That pretty much means that there is no debate on the subject matter and leaves atheists or agnostics looking fairly correct. Any topic in regard to dis- or nonbelief becomes fairly dull then. We know it's not because people, believers especially, are afraid to talk about it all. Right?

I think it goes deeper than that. My own experience is that very many people aren't necessarily athiests or agnostics, but they know that much of their personal behavior might be fowned on by major religions or religious institutions (such as men or women cheating on their wives, people with skeletons in the closet, etc). So to come to a forum like this forces them (even if in their own minds) to confront the point that they are doing something wrong or have done something wrong, and they know it. It makes them listen to their conscience, and that can be very, very uncomfortable to some people. They'd much rather just go on as they are, ignoring what is right and doing what they want.

[Angeheade]

To avoid pointing out specific groups: do you mean it's like people who complain about the environment or gas prices while still driving cars and using resources? People who wear facades mostly because it's "cool" to be a member of their chosen path and say and do the things certain groups do?

[Xutrsavf]

Pretty much so. It is what I call the "Do as I say, not as I do" syndrome. It is also the reason that many people don't go to church, when they belong to one. It makes no difference what the religion is...it is like the Catholic who seldom goes to mass because they are too busy with their neighbor's wife and don't want to stop (the "catholic" part is just for the example...you can insert the name of any religion). Most people have a conscience, even if they don't listen to it, and the conscience naturally balks at being blatently hypocritical (unless you are in political office).

[DurryVony]

Call them "sunday morning christians" on this end. They sow the wild oats on saturday night, but only go to church to pray for crop failure!

Or those who lie, cheat and steal during the week, but are the ones singing the loudest on sunday at church... quite hypocritical...

[adverwork]

You got that exactly on the head! But if you pointed that out to them, they also wouldn't accept it or believe it. They are not willing to take responsibility.

[timgreyuvcz]

I think I understand why a forum of this nature has so much trouble garnering interest. It's all a moot point. No matter what their spiritual path or religion nobody can prove there is a god/dess anyway, right? That pretty much means that there is no debate on the subject matter and leaves atheists or agnostics looking fairly correct. Any topic in regard to dis- or nonbelief becomes fairly dull then. We know it's not because people, believers especially, are afraid to talk about it all. Right?

[Rqvtwlfk]

Does it really matter?

[v74ClzKY]

In part right,I feel I do know there is but its not my place to make a nonbeliever a believer

Not to mention this argument has been going on and on for many many moons and will continue to do so long after were gone.

One of our God/dess rights is free will,to think for oneself.


I have never heard this word you speak of MOOT is that alien language?

[bxxasxxa]

Of no legal significance (as having been previously decided)

It all comes down to faith, and it can sometimes be a silly person that believes in lots of things that aren't there when all that may be the most clear is the nose upon, or not upon, one's face.

[strollerssfsfs]

I'll answer questions when asked of me, but Ido not feel that it is my place to foist my beliefs on anyone else. Nor do I want them to do the same to me. Whatever one chooses to believe in is their own business, not mine. I enjoy listening to others describe their beliefs as well, but to become engaged in heated debates as to who's beliefs are better or "right" leads us to the situation that we find the world in today, and through history. Fighting over religion. Everyone is entitled to believe what they choose to believe and no one should have the right to say they are right or wrong about it.

Just my opinion...

[dogdesign]

Warning. This might make you mad.

I agree that it is somewhat of a Moot Point to discuss the existence/non-exsistance of Dieties, or to argue the correctness of one faith vs. another. No one can prove anything either way. But, that is the same as saying, "I can't prove that my thoughts are in fact a 'real' phenomenon, therefore, thinking is pointless, and a complete lack of time. Then again, the last statement is true..so, nevermind...
Personally, (and don't get offended, I'm only making a point.) I happen to "think" that believing in a diety is absolutely no different than believing in Santa Claus, the Big Bad Wolf, Monsters under your bed, or the Evil Monkey what lives in Chris' closet. How is veneration of a holy man any different than creating a shrine to Aseop's Turtle??? Now, that's not to say that there's somthing wrong with believing that a 2000 year old dead guy is going to come and take us all way to a perfect palce in the sky as long as we like Him the best. (wow, good stuff Slater...) There's nothing wrong with that at all, as long as that's what does it for ya, and you don't try to tell me I'm the one who's nuts.
Religion gives us ethics and morals. It exists to help us make the best decisions in any given situation. Too many people lose that and get stuck on the parts that a) no one can prove anyway, and b) DON'T EVEN MATTER!!!!!
WHAT???? Have I lost my marbles??? Well, yeah, but hear me out anyway. It dosen't matter if your God/ess/s/ess are real. Think about it. Is Superman real? No. But, Superman has taught us alot of good values. Help those around you, and do it with all of your ability. A wonderful value. Do you agree? Now, how often do you get hasseled by guys in capes riding door to door on their bicycles offering you eternal life if you join the "First Baptist Church of Krypton?"
That's why I'm Discordian. It's all silliness anyway, just be silly. That and church is much more fun, what with the jellybeans and body paint.

On a lighter note (AHHHH FFIIRRREEE!!!!!): if we weren't fighting about religion, we'd be fighting over territory, or money. And heaven forbid that ever happens.

[xresultsearch]

I'll answer questions when asked of me, but Ido not feel that it is my place to foist my beliefs on anyone else. Nor do I want them to do the same to me. Whatever one chooses to believe in is their own business, not mine. I enjoy listening to others describe their beliefs as well, but to become engaged in heated debates as to who's beliefs are better or "right" leads us to the situation that we find the world in today, and through history. Fighting over religion. Everyone is entitled to believe what they choose to believe and no one should have the right to say they are right or wrong about it.

Just my opinion...

The idea is not to get into heated debates. (those would seldom fit the definition of the word "debate" anyway.) It is as you've said, you enjoy listnening to others' descriptions of their beliefs, or in this case, others' beliefs about their nonbelief. I'd like to think that we are all that way, able to listen and simply discuss without fear that another's beliefs will impinge upon our own beliefs. I've always felt it's what civilized people do: discuss and opine.

As an example: I like to listen to Rush Limbaugh from time to time on the radio. I agree with the words of Al Franken though, "Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot," or whatever the title to his book was. I can still listen to him though, it makes me think about and reaffirm my own beliefs. I don't even have to become as hostile as Mr. Franken to do so. (BTW: I think Al Franken is a little, skinny idiot. Stick to comedy lad. LOL)

[oxixernibioge]

Agreed! On all accounts!

[jokiruss]

I actually enjoy sitting and listening to what others have to say about their spiritual and religious beliefs. I believe that we are all sent here in a different form of color...to explore a different shade of existence....to put it as simply as I can.

I actually learn from others, it helps shape my compassion for all and sometimes it even shifts my beliefs a little.

I have always noted that you can have a whole church full of people, (and I have visited more than I can count) and all can claim to practice one theory, but in truth, I have found with these multiple discussions, that everyone has their own twist on the subject. Even the kids have beliefs that are different from what their parents and friends believe

I was supported to look more deeply at spiritual belief systems as a young child, mostly because my parents were hippies and studied Paramahansa Yogiananda, and I wanted to go to the local Southern Babtist church in our neighborhood with my friends.

They agreed to let me go, until I was told at five that the world was going to end in seven years and we would all die if we weren't saved...parents got kinda P'd at that one.

In the agreement to allow me to go, they also asked that I look into other faith systems, which I took to heart...and have done so all of my life.

It is very interesting as a young child to have such a broad view on faith, and faith systems...you really start to have compassion for all that exist..and learn that all faiths carry a special key to unlock the mysteries that we all seem to seek.

I'm not saying that I have that figured out...but it has really calmed me about death, fear, loss, and even world destruction. I do still feel these emotions and fears, but I don't feel so...for lack of a better way to put it, frozen.

I have much compassion for all faith and beliefs, I may still get mad at some, but I have found that I am only getting mad at my need to be heard, and even my reflections in actions that I don't agree with.

I have found a real peace in being here with many and have forgiven, for the most part, those who have abused my senses, in my inocence.

I find that I walk from the heart...and YES greyface...it is all silliness! I agree, No anger, and yes, it is personal, and yes, it is fun to debate...as long as you are clear that you are focused within your own needs and able to communicate them until you receive them from yourself, it is all just heart fun.

[Ibrattnofich]

All of the forums on this board are opened so that anyone of any faith, religion, spiritual path, etc. can participate in any discussion. Whether it's to talk about their particular beliefs, ask questions about another's, talk about something they heard about another religion, give opinions, and on-and-on. Talking with others about their beliefs is the best way to learn in my opinion. Anyone should be able to start a topic in this forum, for instance, regardless of their beliefs. All it takes is imagination and curiosity.

The only times that we've had anything approaching problems was when we had forums oriented more specifically towards religions by names. One group of people took that as a reason to preach and dictate in their particular forum. Of course anyone can "preach" here, as long as it doesn't degarde another's beliefs and they can handle questions and general comments when appropriate.

Besides, I've been debating going agnostic again myself.

[MichaelfromSpace]

You know, agnostic is not a bad way to go...you keep all your options open that way...you don't know if a higher theory exists....or not. I say go for it...I figure you'll have all your bases covered.

[Seesspoxy]

This is one of those things that seems like a circular issue - same things round and round. Hey, guess many things are like that, eh? Can be fun to talk about, though.

What matters to me most is a feeling of connection/ interconnection. Many ways to get that.

I prefer "feelings" and "thoughts" to "beliefs". For me, first two words have a less rigid, more fluid rhythm about them...less stagnation and frees up change in me easier. I hate ruts

Sushi Crow