[pkxlugbsbv]

Matthew, just go back and read through the Creation Science thread. All these fakes, including the Delk print, have been debunked on there. You are bringing up tired old arguments that we've refuted several times over.

He doesn't have to go back and reread it....he wrote most of it the first dozen times around. Paul/Seth/Applecartt/Matthew are always willing to whip out Piltdown to discredit evolution, but fail to grasp that it was scientists who exposed the hoax, and once exposed, Piltdown was discredited and discarded. Creation pseudo-science, on the other hand, embraces hoaxes like the Delk print, even though it's been pretty thoroughly debunked.

[cmruloah]

I challenged you to answer the Dinosaurs-walking-with-Man, and what have you responded with so far?

I'm sure your friends over at ICR and AIG will be disappointed to know that Paul G. Humber is using an argument they have discredited, and say should be avoided.

....it would now be improper for creationists to continue to use the Paluxy data as evidence against evolution.... See? Even ICR thinks you're an idiot.

[AlexanderDrew]

If Genesis and Darwinism are each ultimately a matter of faith, which account is supported by the observable data?

Let me give just one observation here: overlapping Dinosaur and Bi-pedal Human footprints.

In several places around the world, there are petrified mud beds where BOTH Reptilian Dinosaurs AND Bi-pedal Humans have left their footprints together. In fact, in the case of two, the Human footprint is actually INSIDE the Dinosaur footprint!

... Amazing?

According to the Darwinist faith, the Reptilian Dinosaurs went extinct some 63 million years ago. However, upright bi-pedal man did not appear until some 3 million years ago. ... Hmmmm.

Therefore, a very pointed question to the Darwinist is in order here: ... How did imprinted footprints of wet mud span a gap of 60 million years, untouched and without petrification?

To that they are speechless.

Of course, the Genesis account has no problem with Man walking side-by-side with Dinosaurs as the ACTUAL OBSERVABLE and VERIFIABLE petroglyphs show.

So, back to our original question: ... If Genesis and Darwinism are each ultimately a matter of faith, which account is supported by the observable data?.

Lets see, Talking snakes and bushes, light created before stars, light emitting moon, flood that left zero evidence but it jumbled the entire geological column and fossil order and rearranged it to say exactly what evolution says, Speed of light traveling faster back in the day, evasive answers for neandrathal dna, population of earth erased to 7 people then miraculously building up to millions in 2 hundred years as if noah and his family had want giant incest orgy. The magical wooden arc with wooden dowels that holds thousands of animals and didn't crush under it's own weight. Your debunked dino footprints and petroglyphs + one weak ass passage of a mystery animal in job. Curing leprosy by cutting bird's heads off and drinking their blood. Unicorns. Men living in whales. No evidence of Exodus ever happening. Plagues debunked. Men living inside of whales. Infinite bread division.


None of the above has any observable evidence compared to the list below.


I think when you said critical thinking you mean imaginative.

Compare the outright ridiculous beliefs you embrace above to any of the items below.

Homologous Structures
Vestigial Organs
Genome Synteny
Gene Order
Wobble Position Sequence
Intron Sequence
Pseudogene Sequence
Retroviruses
Transposons
Human Chromosome #2
Beneficial Mutations (Nylon Digestion)—> HIV Drug Resistance, Pesticide Resistance, ect.
Molecular Clock
Neanderthal DNA
New Genes (Nylonase)
New Species found (Primula, Culex, Rhageletis, Mimulus, ect)
New Structures (In response to predation a single celled algae evolved into a multocellular organism within a few generations).
Biogeography (Species location match an evolutionary origin)
Natural Selection
Variation
Stratigraphy
Order of Fossils (Animals AND Plants)
Information Theory and over 200,000 reviewed Peer-Papers


DATING:
Weak Radioactive Force:
Potassium-Argon Dating
Argon-Argon Dating
Rubidium-Strontium Dating
Samarium-Neodymium Dating
Lutetium-Hafnium Dating
Rhenium-Osmium Dating
Carbon-14 Dating
-
Dendrochronology
Ice Cores
Varves (fresh sediment Layers)
Coral Layers
Thermoluminescence (used to date pottery)
Ash Layers Between Sediment layers
Plate Tectonics
-
Speed of Light
Cepheis Variable Stars
Cosmic Microwave Background
Trigonometry


And just in case you’ve missed it:

TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS: (Just to name a few, Plant fossils not mentioned)
==================================
JAWLESS FISH TO SHARKS:
Cladoselach
Tristychius
Ctenacanthus
Paleospinax
Spathobatis
Protospinax
==================================
JAWLESS TO BONY FISH:
Acanthodians
Cheirolepis
Mimia
Canobius
Aeduella
Parasemionotus
Oreochima
Leptolepis
==================================
BONY FISH TO AMPHIBIANS:
Osteolepis
Eusthenopteron
Sterropterygion
Tiktaalik
Panderichthys
Elpistostege
Obruchevichthys
Hynerpeton
Acanthostega
Ichthyostega
Pholidogaster
Pteroplax
===================================
EARLY TO MODERN AMPHIBIANS:
Pholidogaster
Dendrerpeton acadianum
Archegosaurus decheni
Eryops megacephalus
Trematops
Amphibamus Lyelli
Doleserpeton annectens
===================================
AMPHIBIAN TO FROG:
Vieraella
===================================
AMPHIBIAN TO EARLY REPTILE:
Proterogyrinus
Limnoscelis
Tseajaia
Solenodonsaurus
Hylonomus
Paleothyris
===================================
EARLY TO MODERN REPTILES:
Captorhinus
Hylonomus
Paleothyris
Petrolacosaurus
Araeoscelis
Apsisaurus
Claudiosaurus
Planocephalosaurus
Protorosaurus
Prolacerta
Proterosuchus
Hyperodapedon
Trilophosaurus
====================================
REPTILE TO BIRD:
Coelophysis
Deinonychus
Oviraptor
Lisboasaurus
Protoavis
Archeopteryx
Sinornis
Ambiortus
Hesperornis
Ichthyornis
=====================================
EARLY REPTILE TO MAMMAL:
Paleothyris
Protoclepsydrops
Clepsydrops
Archaeothrys
Varanops
Haptodus
Dimetrodon
Sphenacodon
Biarmosuchia
Procynosuchus
Dvinia
Thrinaxcodon
Cynognathus
Diademodon
Probelesodon
Probainognathus
Exaeretodon
Oligokyphus
Kayentatherium
Pachygenelus
Diarthrognathus
Adelobasileus
Sinoconodon
Kuehneotherium
Eozostrodon
Morganucodon
Haldanodon
Peramus
Endotherium
Kielantherium
Aegialodon
Steropodon
Vincelestes
Pariadens
Kennalestes
Cimolestes
Procerberus
Gypsonictops
======================================
EARLY MAMMAL TO PRIMATE:
Palaechthon
Purgarotius
Cantius
Pelycodus
Amphipithecus
Pondaungia
Parapithecus
Propliopithecus
Aegyptopithecus
Proconsul
Limnopithecus
Dryopithecus
=======================================
LAND MAMMAL TO WHALE:
Pakicetus
Nalacetus
Ichthyolestes
Gandakasia
Ambulocetus
Himalayacetus
Attockicetus
Remingtonocetus
Dalanistes
Kutchicetus
Andrewsiphius
Indocetus
Qaisracetus
Takracetus
Artiocetus
Babiacetus
Protocetus
Pappocetus
Eocetus
Georgiacetus
Natchitochia
Dorudon
Ancalacetus
Zygorhiza
Saghacetus
Chrysocetus
Gaviacetus
Pontogeneus
Basilosaurus
Basiloterus
=======================================
PRIMATE TO HUMAN:
Sahelanthropus tchadensis
Orrorin tugenensis
Ardipithecus ramidus
Ardipithecus kadabba
Australopithecus afarensis
Australopithecus africanus
Australopithecus garhi
Australopithecus bahrelghazali
Homo habilis
Homo Erectus

[Loovikeillilen]

Matthew, just go back and read through the Creation Science thread. All these fakes, including the Delk print, have been debunked on there. You are bringing up tired old arguments that we've refuted several times over.

Believe whatever fairy tales you want, but don't try to convince the rest of us who live in the reality-based world that you are correct.

DP

The Delk Find might be ignored by the Corporate Establishment scientific elites and those who run the government Public Fool System. But it is in no way 'debunked'. Rather the opposite, it is confirmed.

Your sources are old and false accusations. Their reference fields are from the 1960s, 70s, and 80s. Those have been proven false with modern technology, specifically x-rays and CT devices.

The video that I linked shows how spiral Cat Scans have proven its authenticity. It has confirmed forward locomotion, straight toe bi-pedalism only known to modern man, and has refuted the so-called 'debunker' myths such as acid and carving.

-----

Now, let me ask you a personal question about your religion (if you are willing to indulge in a friendly way).

Do you actually believe in your heart-of-hearts that you are merely an 'advanced ape'?

If so, think back in your life of who was responsible for psychologically scarring you and abusing your humanity. ... Was it a professor? ... Was it a 'pop TV' show on Discovery? ... Was it the Commie PBS channel?

You see, truly independent-minded people would never fall for such mass propaganda that is shoved down one's throat by the Corporate-State media and Education Establishment. They would summarily reject the notion of someone telling them that they are merely an 'advanced ape'.

And this gets to the point of the Religion of Darwinism. It is not about an 'explanation of origins' as advertised. It is really a METHOD OF CONTROL for the unsuspecting.

You see, once a victim is psychologically reduced to 'ape status' by Darwinist mind control, then that person is no longer able to think for him or herself, and hence will be a compliant animal for the rest of his or her life. He or she will slavishly serve their Establishment power masters. This is exactly the desired effect.

No wonder Darwinists ardently support the Public (corporate-state) Fool System, do they not? It is their 'church' whereby they get their Darwinist Religious sermons preached (by the force of law).

Independent thinkers reject such State-Corporate Establishment dogma. I think this rejection is what really angers the Establishment too. They cannot control us. We are human beings specially created by God, not servile animals whose ancestors are apes.

DP, dear friend, I am not trying to 'fight' with you. Instead, I am trying to liberate you from your false animalistic psychological state. There is no reason why you should abuse yourself in this manner.

All the best, Happy New Years.

[MADwanker]

No wonder Darwinists ardently support the Public (corporate-state) Fool System, do they not? It is their 'church' whereby they get their Darwinist Religious sermons preached (by the force of law).

Independent thinkers reject such State-Corporate Establishment dogma. I think this rejection is what really angers the Establishment too. They cannot control us. We are human beings specially created by God, not servile animals whose ancestors are apes.

Either this is the most brilliant parody I have ever seen, or Paul Humber's cheese has slid completely off the cracker. Judging from this recent post on Orly Taitz's site, I suspect it's the cheese.

“Luke Scott … stated with conviction that President Barack Obama was not born in the United States.”
Wednesday, December 8, 2010 1:34 PM
From:
“PAUL G. HUMBER”

I think I have a new favorite baseball player—Luke Scott, and I’m not even from Baltimore! Look at this URL! Answer Man: Luke Scott talks Nugent, hunting and Obama origin - Big League Stew - MLB*Blog - Yahoo! Sports! It was posted 29 minuted before midnight yesterday.



Here are some things you can find in the article:



“…Luke Scott … stated with conviction that President Barack Obama was not born in the United States.

Oh, yes, he did. Scott’s opinion about the president’s birthplace — while certainly not unique — was a stunning climax to a friendly and frank 20-minute Answer Man session that spanned his enthusiasm for baseball, hunting, firearms, personal responsibility and smaller government.

[Elisabetxxx]

... Men living in whales. ...

None of the above has any observable evidence ...

Oh really? You had better go check your so-called 'facts'.

James Bartley lived in a whale. I suspect that the Corporate-State Public Fool System never taught you of his experience. Well, let me educate you and at the same time correct you (er hem). See this:

Swallowed by a Whale

What I like best about this account is that it confirms Jonah's actual experience. Jonah after being washed up on land, went to the city of Nineveh and told the people to repent. They repented, but why?

The Book of Jonah says that his physical features were ghostly white. It put fear into those Ninevites. Bartley, likewise, when he was released from the whale's belly was ghostly white because of the acidic gastric juices of the whale's stomach. Bartley confirmed that there was plenty of air on the inside to breathe too.

Please do your research outside of the controlled paradigm. It will help you.

-----

Now Enyo, let me ask you a personal question about your religion (if you are willing to indulge in a friendly way).

Do you actually believe in your heart-of-hearts that you are merely an 'advanced ape'?

If so, think back in your life of who was responsible for psychologically scarring you and abusing your humanity. ... Was it a professor? ... Was it a 'pop TV' show on Discovery? ... Was it the Commie PBS channel?

You see, truly independent-minded people would never fall for such mass propaganda that is shoved down one's throat by the Corporate-State media and Education Establishment. They would summarily reject the notion of someone telling them that they are merely an 'advanced ape'.

And this gets to the point of the Religion of Darwinism. It is not about an 'explanation of origins' as advertised. It is really a METHOD OF CONTROL for the unsuspecting.

You see, once a victim is psychologically reduced to 'ape status' by Darwinist mind control, then that person is no longer able to think for him or herself, and hence will be a compliant animal for the rest of his or her life. He or she will slavishly serve their Establishment power masters. This is exactly the desired effect.

No wonder Darwinists ardently support the Public (corporate-state) Fool System, do they not? It is their 'church' whereby they get their Darwinist Religious sermons preached (by the force of law).

Independent thinkers reject such State-Corporate Establishment dogma. I think this rejection is what really angers the Establishment too. They cannot control us. We are human beings specially created by God, not servile animals whose ancestors are apes.

Enyo, dear friend, I am not trying to 'fight' with you. Instead, I am trying to liberate you from your false animalistic psychological state. There is no reason why you should abuse yourself in this manner.

All the best, Happy New Years.

[Inenuedbabnor]

Either this is the most brilliant parody I have ever seen, or Paul Humber's cheese has slid completely off the cracker. Judging from this recent post on Orly Taitz's site, I suspect it's the cheese.

So, do you actually believe in your heart-of-hearts that you are merely an 'advanced ape'?

Be honest.

[johnuioyer]

So, do you actually believe in your heart-of-hearts that you are merely an 'advanced ape'?

Be honest.

Pretty much. I also believe in my heart of hearts that you're an idiot.

[loginereQQ]

Pretty much. I also believe in my heart of hearts that you're an idiot.

Thank you.

Here we see an admitted ape thinks that a human being is an 'idiot'.

Apes don't think and hence you prove my point.

[Phouepou]

Pretty much. I also believe in my heart of hearts that you're an idiot.

As a member of the 'scientific elite' (aka people who accept reality instead of fairy tales as explanations for natural processes), I must agree with you Bob_Head. Either he's an idiot or this is a Poe and he is a troll.

[XinordiX]

As a member of the 'scientific elite' (aka people who accept reality instead of fairy tales as explanations for natural processes), I must agree with you Bob_Head. Either he's an idiot or this is a Poe and he is a troll.

Wonderful.

Name calling ... oooooh that really hurts (chuckle chuckle).

Now, answer the question honestly and seriously.

Do you consider yourself an 'advanced ape'?

I find that when people are really pressed on this issue, they backtrack into evasionary tactics, name-calling, and distractions.

Even you, DP dear friend, find the thought of being consigned as a mere 'base animal' so repugnant, that it curdles your blood. We see the anger openly coming out in you.

Be honest now.

[Ruilnasr]

Here we see an admitted ape thinks that a human being is an 'idiot'

And here we see an idiot, plain and simple. You play word games, and think you're accomplishing something. That's because, beyond word games you've got nothing.

[Keyclenef]

I'm not a bit angry. I just think that you are either stupid or goading posters here. Humans, along with orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, and bonobos are classified as Hominidae, Great Apes, so yes I am an ape and you are as well.

[allachakb]

As a member of the 'scientific elite' (aka people who accept reality instead of fairy tales as explanations for natural processes), I must agree with you Bob_Head. Either he's an idiot or this is a Poe and he is a troll.

Well, it's becoming more obvious it's Paul, and not a brilliant troll. He's doing too much work. Truly great trolls throw bombs, then stand back to watch the flames. Anyone this involved has to be a true believer. What a shame....instead of a legendary troll, we're stuck with idiot Humber.

[ptmQqoxw]

And here we see an idiot, plain and simple. You play word games, and think you're accomplishing something. That's because, beyond word games you've got nothing.

This is an interesting new twist to this debate.

Bob-Head is complaining about being outdone by 'word games'. Outsmarted by an 'idiot' nonetheless. ... Hmmm.

The world is watching your pathetic cry of mere name-calling and evasion.

[Sopzoozyren]

This is an interesting new twist to this debate.

Bob-Head is complaining about being outdone by 'word games'. Outsmarted by an 'idiot' nonetheless...

No one said you were winning the word games, just that you were playing them.

[ZanazaKar]

This is an interesting new twist to this debate.

Bob-Head is complaining about being outdone by 'word games'. Outsmarted by an 'idiot' nonetheless. ... Hmmm.

The world is watching your pathetic cry of mere name-calling and evasion.

I said you were playing word games, that's all. I'm not whining, or name calling, just making an observation. There's no outsmarting involved. You're still an idiot. You bring wordplay to science and think you're accomplishing something. You're not.

I'd say go back to arguing the Bible, but, as it's been demonstrated, you suck at that, too.

[Jannet.K]

No one said you were winning the word games, just that you were playing them.

You haven't refuted the Spiral Cat Scan and x-ray proof of the authenticity of the Delk Find. Your opinions (i.e. word games) are based on discredited research from the 1960s, 70s, and 80s.

So, who is really playing 'word games' here?

I am asking some valid questions and backing it up with scientific observations, not playing a 'word game' as you falsely accuse.

If you really believe that you are an 'advanced ape', then be mightily proud of it.

But, do not accuse me of playing 'word games'. That is YOUR decision (not my word game) to degrade yourself into an animal existence.

You must take responsibility for your decisions.

I like what Ayn Rand once said (ironically she was a militant atheist): ... "You can deny reality, but you cannot deny the ramifications of denying reality."

Applied to this debate, if you think you are a mere ape, then you must face the consequences of being looked at as an ape.

Man up, ... take responsibility for your decision, ... no more excuses or evasion.

[Saduyre9de]

I said you were playing word games, that's all. I'm not whining, or name calling, just making an observation. There's no outsmarting involved. You're still an idiot. You bring wordplay to science and think you're accomplishing something. You're not.

I'd say go back to arguing the Bible, but, as it's been demonstrated, you suck at that, too.

Oooooh ... more name-calling. That is an emotional reaction, not science.

You haven't refuted the Spiral Cat Scan and x-ray proof of the authenticity of the Delk Find. Your opinions (i.e. word games) are based on discredited research from the 1960s, 70s, and 80s.

So, who is really playing 'word games' here?

I am asking some valid questions and backing it up with scientific observations, not playing a 'word game' as you falsely accuse.

If you really believe that you are an 'advanced ape', then be mightily proud of it.

But, do not accuse me of playing 'word games'. That is YOUR decision (not my word game) to degrade yourself into an animal existence.

You must take responsibility for your decisions.

I like what Ayn Rand once said (ironically she was a militant atheist): ... "You can deny reality, but you cannot deny the ramifications of denying reality."

Applied to this debate, if you think you are a mere ape, then you must face the consequences of being looked at as an ape.

Man up, ... take responsibility for your decision, ... no more excuses or evasion.

[ThzinChang]

You haven't refuted the Spiral Cat Scan and x-ray proof of the authenticity of the Delk Find. Your opinions (i.e. word games) are based on discredited research from the 1960s, 70s, and 80s.

The cat-scan is irrelevant to the Delk find. The authenticity of the piece is doubtful as it was not found in situ. Furthermore, on the entire site, there is not one other clean, identifiable human footprint like the one that was scanned. Not a single one. Its pedigree is highly suspect. That's why even the ICR doesn't have anyconfidence in it.

As for being proud of being an ape, why? Ape, human or whatever else, where's the pride? All I did to be what I am is to be born. As the great prophet, Popeye, once said, "I am what I am." We are simply incredibly successful animals. Nothing more, nothing less.