[Liaiskelile]

What turned me off Christianity is the fact that it hinges on a false premise.

[Futfwrca]

I understand that, dayman, but some people do buy the premise. I don't buy it 100% but I keep looking. When I left the RC church, I was completely disillusioned with religion. In my new church, I feel that my doubts are accepted, and even encouraged. That makes a lot of difference. In any case, I feel the need to be vigilant against attempts to make us all unthinking drones just because we want some religion. As I've frequently said on this forum, if God exists, he surely doesn't expect us to be stupid.

[Charryith]

I understand people do believe in it, and when I say it's a false premise I don't mean to alienate you or any other believers who air on the side of rationality. It is currently unproven and I don't like systems of thought that don't have proven or plausible premises.

My "searching for something" period of my life ended up with me finding nothing, and accepting it.

[BeksTeene]

Day, if you need proof then religion is not for you! That's the real difference between people like you and me and true believers. True believers don't need proof. I'm looking for proof but I don't think I'll find it. Mostly, it's the people and the opportunity for community service that keep me going to church. And the pot lucks.

[duexjepevef]

I can understand the social aspect, that I do miss. But I can't deal with being preached too, I can't stomach the religion. I had to drop my poli-sci class because the guy harangued us on the merits of ultraconservatism. So I can't sit through church to be a part of the community.

It'd be great if there was a skeptics-in-the-pub or something like it in Philly. I'd so be there.

I know some people join Unitarian congregations because they accept atheists, just for the social support network.

[krek-sikUp]

I would say that on this board the greatest threat to Christianity is Paul Humber, he paints fundamentalist Christians in a very dim light and makes it hard for Christians with more moderate views to be taken seriously.

[Aminkaoo]

Which of these two do Christians view as a greater threat to their religion? The theory of evolution that is taught in school or the fictional series of books about Harry Potter. A survey said that 50% of American children have read at least one Harry Potter book.

I think neither the theory of evolution nor Harry Potter books are too much of a threat to the Christian religion. What I hear from most people I know who have turned away from the Christian religion is the views of the Catholic church and Vatican.

[lionsiy]

I'd say it's fundies, but ymmv.

[shanice]

Thanks. Speaking of Harry Potter and crazy Christians, have you ever seen this??
YouTube - Harry Potter is the Devil!

If he would have been in the Old Testament Harry Potter would have been put to death.

Really, that is a must see documentary.

[sat23neus2]

In my new church, I feel that my doubts are accepted, and even encouraged.

OM --

I too am a lapsed RC and, if you don't mind my asking, I'm just wondering if you now go to a UU church. When my kids were young, I wanted them to have some kind of a spiritual outlet, so I took them to a UU church in Jersey, where we lived at the time. Whenever they would complain to me about having to go to church, I used to threaten to take them to a Catholic service if they really wanted a taste of Sunday morning torture. (Sorry to those of you who are Catholic.)

OLB

[inmeirulez]

If he would have been in the Old Testament Harry Potter would have been put to death.

Really, that is a must see documentary.

It's scary. Jesus camp seemes like the equivalent of a Madrasah. The brains of kids that age are like sponges and blank slates. Kids are very impressionable and the "education" that those kids were getting can only lead to bad things down the road. In the middle east, they start with young kids that age. Fill their heads with religious bullsiht and get them to strap a bomb to themselves and kill in the name of God. Makes perfect sense to me.

[Bobobsdo]

Oladybug,
I go to an Episcopal church. Funny thing, we have some "lapsed" UU folks among us!!

[Numbiydq]

This thread makes me wonder how many PSers orient their lives around Christian principles, or are religious in their beliefs, even if liberal in their politics. I had the feeling that other than Humber and some observant Jews, not a lot of others care about religion, theirs or others'.

I mean, how many of you actually pray to baby Jesus and do other such things? How many of you are just culturally Christian and also believe in reincarnation, or "religiously" do yoga and swear by meditation? How many of you accept other religious traditions as equally relevant as Christianity?

[EscaCsamas]

^I'd be interested in that subject too.

I honestly think that most Americans are culturally Christian. Most simply don't observe and as it gets more and more acceptable to have no religion that the numbers of the irreligious and those without any affiliation will grow. As you will find the number of people in non-Christian denominations grow as well. I also think that we're a good thirty years or so behind Europe socially when it comes to thinks like religion and tolerance.

[viagbloggerz]

I agree that Harry Potter per se is not a serious threat. The OP's posts are sometimes hard to fathom. Is he trying to be funny or is he serious- hard to say. Certainly sex scandals trump any Harry Potter threat. BUT, I think the whole Harry Potter issue goes right back to the fundamentalist fringe. Anything that goes against their very narrow view of Christianity is fought. That includes children's books about wizards and witches. Don't get me started on their hysteria about Halloween.

BTW, I like your signature.

I created the post after seeing some things on the internet about Harry Potter. Evolution is not as big an interest as Harry Potter to kids. So the concern was it affecting their thinking at a young age. For example JK Rowling received death threats. Death is a serious matter.

J.K. Rowling Gets Death Threats Over Harry Potter

Harry Potter and the Christian Cauldron

The above says:
Just a sampling: Don Wildmon's American Family Association (AFA) has described the "Harry Potter" series as "books that promote witchcraft and wizardry." Linda Beam, Focus on the Family's contributing culture analyst, says, "[W]hat the author does may be more harmful than she realizes, since children who become fascinated by her charms and spells could eventually stumble into the very real world of witchcraft and the occult. These stories are not fueled by witchcraft, but by secularism." An organization called Family Friendly Libraries has asserted that "J.K. Rowling is fast becoming a virtual Pied Piper for the modern version of neopagan religion. Harry's adventures employ heavy use of Wicca symbolism, language and themes." Harry Potter

The above says
"By disassociating magic and supernatural evil, it becomes possible to portray occult practices as good and healthy," wrote Atlanta educator John Andrew Murray in Citizen, a magazine of the Focus on the Family organization, in 1999. "It is the duty of Christian parents to oppose Harry Potter," said Murray, since the Bible condemns witchcraft (Deuteronomy 18:9-12) and tells Christians to "avoid every kind of evil" (1 Thessalonians 5:22).

"Don’t Give Us Little Wizards, The Anti-Potter Parents Cry" ran the headline on Jodi Wilgoren’s November 1, 1999 story in the New York Times. Over the next two years, dozens of reports in the Anglo-American press catalogued religious objections to the books—the gist of which was that, as the Toronto Globe and Mail’s Joan Bodger put it, "anti-Potter parents seem to fear that Rowling’s books are how-to manuals on wizardry."

PowerPoint Presentation - Harry Potter and Religion
The main issue: the books deal with magic and witchcraft, which are forbidden in the Bible - does the presence of magic and witchcraft in these books mean that they are advocating the practice of magic by Christian children?
Fantasy vs Reality


The Satanism argument - If Satan is a real force, out to snare unwary minds with all tools at his disposal, wouldn’t this include fantasy novels… (especially ones that idealize witchcraft?) - Fantasy novels as tools of Satan?
Are the Harry Potter novels, (and Harry Potter’s world) secular or religious?
snopes.com: Harry Potter Satanism

The above has some good quotes but I cannot copy it since it was originally PDF-- "and no one seems to understand its threat."

Pope Says Harry Potter Seduces Kids And Distorts Christianity - Blogcritics Culture
Pope Benedict believes the Harry Potter books subtly seduce young readers and "distort Christianity in the soul" before it can develop properly, according to comments attributed to him by a German writer.

[JosephEL]

I was far more interested in dinosaurs and biology as a kid then I was Harry Potter.

[PetrZimin]

I grew up with Harry Potter. It's an okay series, and as I may have already mentioned, it winds up having a very deeply Christian morality and hinging on a conspicuously Christian allegory--those who denigrate it for being about a bunch of wizards completely miss the point! Let me put it this way:

Books like Harry Potter, when properly understood, turn us towards Christianity. It thus follows that the premise that it is somehow harmful to Christianity is contradictory, and hence flawed, and hence can be thrown out.

Let us now consider evolution. Natural science, by its very mission, attempts to be as areligious as possible: that is, it does not wish to bias itself towards any one tradition or another. Yet at the same time when we look on what science has taught us about ourselves we cannot help but feel the stirrings of faith within us; and that, too, in the Christian world, brings us back to the Church. We learn more about ourselves and our faith and, if all goes right, come to believe in it all the more. This, too, cannot be bad for Christianity.

So if neither evolution nor Harry Potter is bad for Christianity, what is?
Purity. The focus on some sort of purity of thought--a dogma--by its very nature destroys: the establishment of dogma destroys unity of faith, decimates our ability to connect and discern, and ultimately subverts our desire to know. In short, its goal is to promote, foster, and promulgate ignorance. A world where religious ignorance, save the teachings of dogma, rules the day is a world that is deeply anti-Christian (and anti-religious). It is the kind of world where anyone who can think for himself defects from the Church, and does so in droves. It is the world people like Humber want. People like that--when given the power to alter minds--are the most dangerous poison unto Christianity of them all.

[orerviche]

It'd be great if there was a skeptics-in-the-pub or something like it in Philly. I'd so be there.

Drinking Skeptically - March
Saturday, March 20, 2010
3:30pm - 6:30pm
Kite and Key Tavern
1836 Callowhill St.
Philadelphia, PA

3:30 - It's Ladies Night at Drinking Skeptically! at the Kite and Key

2:00 pm - Lectures in the C2-28 Lecture Room at the Philadelphia Community College. This room is in the Center for Business and Industry at the corner of 18th and Callowhill streets on the College's Main Campus.

Today's Lecture:
Dr. Lionel Tiger is the Charles Darwin Professor of Anthropology at Rutgers University.
A graduate of McGill University, the London School of Economics at the University of London, England, he is a consultant to the U.S. Department of Defense on the future of biotechnology and the author of a controversial book, The Decline of Males. Dr. Tiger, who developed the concept of "male bonding" in his classis study Men In Groups, has determined that women are in a trend to surpass men in economic, social, and reproductive status - and that the cause of this seismic shift is not political or moral, but biological.

[Kdgjhytiy]

I GO TO CCP!

Sweet!

I've had classes in C2-29.

[praboobolbode]

To answer the question, my first impulse is to say Christianity would consider the Theory of Evolution to be their biggest threat, but I guess that's just to fundamentalists. I don't affiliate myself with any organized religion officially, though I do attend Central Philadelphia Meeting (Quakers). I've only met a few people calling themselves Christian who reject the Theory of Evolution. So maybe since the fundamentalists who feel threatened by the T of E are the loudest and they get the most media exposure, maybe that's misleading. Assuming more sane types are the majority of Christians (they just aren't as loud as the fundamentalists), maybe Christians aren't really threatened by the T of E or by Harry Potter.