[HarryMet]

Calling me a liar does not make it so, Craz. Plus, I’m getting numb to it.

Paul, asking why a group would object to someone choosing to keep their son when they are not objecting to that at all is lying.

No, me calling you a liar doesn't make it so... you coming out with such a disgusting and obvious lie does that.

[topcasinobonua]

In an article entitled “Tim Tebow to Star in Pro-Life Super Bowl Ad” (by Russ Jones), we read these words: “Tebow fans may not know that Tim's mother was urged to abort Tebow during a troubled pregnancy and chose not to. “

“In 1985 Pam Tebow and her husband were Christian missionaries in the Philippines. Wanting to expand their family, they prayed for "Timmy" by name before she became pregnant. Pam fell into a coma just prior to the pregnancy after contracting amoebic dysentery, a bacteria transmitted through contaminated drinking water, and took a series of strong medications to treat her illness. Doctors later found those medications caused the fetus to be ‘irreversibly’ damaged. They strongly urged Pam to abort her fifth child.

“Declining the advice of her doctors, Pam gave birth August 14, 1987 to a healthy son without the devastating disabilities her physicians predicted. Pam cites her Christian faith as the reason for going through her pregnancy.

“… In his final game as a college quarterback, Tebow's eye-black message beneath his eyes during the Sugar Bowl was "EPH 2:8-10," which reads, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

Tebow's eye-black represents how something seemingly insignificant can have a huge impact. Google reports the keywords "Tebow's eye-black" has generated 94 million searches.”

[Lapsinuibense]

I'm glad that Tim Tebow's mother had the CHOICE about whether to abort or not. See, Humber, it's about a woman's right to choose, not about forcing your or my choice on her.

I read a good suggestion on Jezebel. Take the total number of points scored in the Super Bowl, double them, and donate that amount to Planned Parenthood.

[Catalogov]

In an article entitled “Tim Tebow to Star in Pro-Life Super Bowl Ad” (by Russ Jones), we read these words: “Tebow fans may not know that Tim's mother was urged to abort Tebow during a troubled pregnancy and chose not to. “

And? Are you trying to say that every woman should ignore any warnings about a troubling pregnancy? Are you saying that, even when the doctors in a country that is pretty much against abortion are recommending it, the mother should ignore them?

Are you really saying that praying to God is going to make sure someone has a healthy baby?


Do you have any idea just how often people pray for a healthy baby and end up with still-borns, miscarriages, disabled/deformed, (and I'm talking very badly here) or have the mother die in childbirth?

So what if Tim and his mother beat the odds... most DON'T!


Pro life? No Paul, that isn't pro life at all... it's pro death.

[palantownia]

In an article entitled “Tim Tebow to Star in Pro-Life Super Bowl Ad” (by Russ Jones), we read these words: “Tebow fans may not know that Tim's mother was urged to abort Tebow during a troubled pregnancy and chose not to."

I'm happy for the Tebow family, but I'm especially happy that women in this country have a CHOICE on whether or not to have an abortion. It's amazing how the anti-choice crowd uses that word so much. I chose this, so you must chose this too. I don't think the word choice means what you think it does here.

And a lot of the problem with the airing of this ad during the Super Bowl is that in 2004, CBS refused to air an ad by the United Church of Christ that let gays and others know that their church welcomed everybody regardless of who they were, unlike some other churches and denominations.

[searkibia]

DP wrote: “See, Humber, it's about a woman's right to choose, not about forcing your or my choice on her.”

What about the estimated 25,000,000 little American women in the womb who have died since ’73. They did not have a right to choose. The morality of death was imposed on those precious little women!

I'm glad that Tim Tebow's mother had the CHOICE about whether to abort or not. See, Humber, it's about a woman's right to choose, not about forcing your or my choice on her.

I read a good suggestion on Jezebel. Take the total number of points scored in the Super Bowl, double them, and donate that amount to Planned Parenthood.

[clubcughSheet]

And? Are you trying to say that every woman should ignore any warnings about a troubling pregnancy? Are you saying that, even when the doctors in a country that is pretty much against abortion are recommending it, the mother should ignore them?

Are you really saying that praying to God is going to make sure someone has a healthy baby?


Do you have any idea just how often people pray for a healthy baby and end up with still-borns, miscarriages, disabled/deformed, (and I'm talking very badly here) or have the mother die in childbirth?

So what if Tim and his mother beat the odds... most DON'T!


Pro life? No Paul, that isn't pro life at all... it's pro death.

Exactly. After the murder of Dr. Tiller, Andrew Sullivan at the Atlantic posted personal stories from readers who had or considered abortions when they found out they were carrying a child with medical problems -

It's So Personal: A Round-Up - The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

Some chose to continue their pregnancies, some did end up with children who were healthy and some ended up with infants who died hours after birth.

This one is particularly interesting, as the family who chose not to carry to term were Catholic and consulted with their preist - It's So Personal, Ctd: The Catholic Mother - The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan

Paul - If you'd like to understand what kind of birth defects can occur that make people chose abortion, research something like anencephaly. When the fetus is developing, it doesn't develop a forebrain and sometimes they have no skin or bone covering their brain tissue. In addition to being severely, obviously deformed, they're unconsious if they're not stillborn. You can't say that everyone believes God would want someone to go through something like that.

[Qynvtlur]

DP wrote: “See, Humber, it's about a woman's right to choose, not about forcing your or my choice on her.”

What about the estimated 25,000,000 little American women in the womb who have died since ’73. They did not have a right to choose. The morality of death was imposed on those precious little women!

And women who died during complicated childbirths? And women who died from giving themselves abortions with wire hangers because they had no choice but to risk a do-it-yourself abortion rather than bring a child to term?

[Gymnarnemia]

And women who died during complicated childbirths? And women who died from giving themselves abortions with wire hangers because they had no choice but to risk a do-it-yourself abortion rather than bring a child to term?

There are many couples who would love to adopt the ones brought “to term”? One of my three children was adopted (born long after ’73). I also have an adopted grandson. I’m glad neither of those mothers used either a hanger or a killing-doctor.

[DadaSeeva]

And the women who would either have died or suffered serious complications by carrying pregnancies to term? Their lives are worth less than those of fetuses?

And I repeat, if you seriously wanted to reduce the number of abortions in this country, you would be devoting your time to better sex education and providing contraceptives to both men and women.

[CitsMoise17]

And the women who would either have died or suffered serious complications by carrying pregnancies to term? Their lives are worth less than those of fetuses?

And I repeat, if you seriously wanted to reduce the number of abortions in this country, you would be devoting your time to better sex education and providing contraceptives to both men and women.

Planned parenthood is the work of Darwin, Sanger, Satan & Hitler.

Precious creatures shouldn't be making these decisions for themselves because they should be kept. God will decide these things for them, and pastors like Humber will tell the creatures what God has decided.

[Yinekol]

And the women who would either have died or suffered serious complications by carrying pregnancies to term? Their lives are worth less than those of fetuses?

The “Hyperstimulation and Multiple Side-Effects of Menotropin Therapy: A Case Report” by Uchenna C. Nwosu, M.D., Stephen L. Corson, M.D. and Ronald J. Bolognese, M.D. was about my wife--now married for 43+ years! It was in The Journal of Reproductive Medicine, March 1974;12(3):117-120.

My wife I suspect that the doctors were very appreciative that we never even thought of bringing lawsuits against them. She was very close to death twice during her pregnancy, but there was another Physician superintending over all.

We were married in 1966 but were not blessed with children until almost seven years later. The Scriptures say to be fruitful and multiply. Thus, our decision to seek medical help was faith-driven. We wanted to obey the Scriptures. Why would we want to punish doctors for trying to help us?

Prudence was hospitalized very early in her pregnancy. The abstract reported: “After another 5 days, discomfort from ascites and abdominal distension led to hospitalization. Hospital therapy included diuresis, rest, and replacement of plasma volume. In this case of hyperstimulated ovary, increased capillary permeability to water, electrolytes and low molecular weight protein may have led to exuding of these substances into the peritoneal cavity through the thinned capsular surface of the enlarged ovaries, activation of the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone mechanism by the consequent blood volume contraction, and increased sodium reabsorption by proximal renal tubules.”

My beloved wife was beginning to look like a skeleton; much of her body fluid was going to her abdomen. I remember distinctly getting on my knees beside my bed at home (Prudence was hospitalized) and praying for her. I quoted Scripture to the Lord—that it’s not good for man to be alone—and—let every man have his own wife. I pleaded with the Great Physician that He be merciful to us (not knowing at the time that precious Paul and Ruth were also involved).

The very next morning, there was a telephone call. Seriously considering that Prudence might not have survived the night, I heard the encouraging news from Prudence that she thought she was beginning to improve. She did improve and was released from the hospital, but this set the stage for one of the most striking examples of God’s care for me, my wife, and my twins.

It happened on 12/21/72. I had recently accepted a position, serving as pastor of a tiny church. My weekly income was $50. I also accepted substitute-teaching opportunities offered to me by the Abington School District. (I had been a full-time high school teacher with Abington from ’65-’69.)

Prior to 12/21/72, I had never turned down a substitute-teaching opportunity. Had I accepted the offer that came to me on the morning of 12/21/72, however, Prudence, my son, Paul, and my daughter, Ruth, all probably would have died that very day!

We had learned at about 5 weeks that Prudence was pregnant. Now she was 7 weeks along. On that particular day, my decision to decline the teaching opportunity, therefore, was extremely critical. How good the Lord was, for I could very well have decided to teach that day. What a huge mercy it was from God, that He enabled me to make the right decision!

In the afternoon, Prudence was climbing the stairs to the second floor. As she did so, huge blood clots that had accumulated in her left leg, suddenly traveled to both lungs. (This was referred to above—in the medical abstract.) I heard her stop—halfway up the stairs. (Had I been teaching in school, I would not have heard her.) Somewhat concerned, I asked, “Are you alright?” She said, “I don’t know.”

Of course, that was all I needed. I went to her immediately. By the time I got to her, she had passed out. I reached my right arm under her knees and grabbed her around the arms and torso with my left and carried her about 8 steps to the living room floor. Her eyes rolled up into her head (I could only see white), and she stiffened out like a board. This was a major crisis for me, but the Lord enabled me to do three things in sequence. First, I elevated her feet. Second, I uttered the short prayer, “Lord, help,” as I moved to the telephone. Finally, I dialed for emergency.

Wow, did the Lord ever answer that prayer! Still lying on the floor with feet elevated, stunned Prudence verbalized a question, “What happened?”, and two ambulance men were at the door in about one minute! That alone, if not a miracle, must be close to a world’s record! The published article (referred to above) reported that Prudence “was admitted in shock.” It continued: “On admission she was cyanotic with a pulse of 130 and no obtainable blood pressure.” If you do not know, cyanotic is the adjective form for cyanosis, and the dictionary describes that as “(a) morbid condition in which the surface of the body becomes blue because of insufficient aeration of the blood.”

The article continued: “An electrocardiogram showed changes compatible with an acute massive pulmonary infarction. After hydration the hemoglobin dropped to 8 gms and two units of blood were given to protect against fetal hypoxia. Lung scans showed bilateral involvement with reduced perfusion worse on the right.” If memory serves us, about 60% of one lung was knocked out-of-commission and about 40% of the other. The Lord gave wisdom to the medics on the way to the hospital, for they gave Prudence much needed oxygen. Three months later, we learned that she was carrying twins. Thus, the oxygen saved three lives!

Some time later, Dr. Arthur Lintgen, the attending physician at Abington Memorial Hospital, told my parents that something more than medical science was involved in the survival of Prudence. I believe he was referring to God’s superintending mercy and grace.

[elektikaka]

I am glad that your wife survived Humber. You've related that story before, either here or on Phillyblog.

Her survival through medical intervention does not address the issue though.

And I note that you conveniently omitted quoting the latter part of my post. Here it is for you:

And I repeat, if you seriously wanted to reduce the number of abortions in this country, you would be devoting your time to better sex education and providing contraceptives to both men and women. The best way to reduce the number of abortions is to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies.

[LottiFurmann]

There are many couples who would love to adopt the ones brought “to term”? One of my three children was adopted (born long after ’73). I also have an adopted grandson. I’m glad neither of those mothers used either a hanger or a killing-doctor.

There are hundreds upon thousands more children already in the system waiting to be adopted or even fostered than there are people willing to adopt or foster them...

What kind of life would you have them go through...? Force the mothers to give birth, force them to give the child up, force the child to live it's first 18 years with no parents, force it to live institutionalized until it's 18, then have it basically kicked out? Force it to have a start in life that is most likely to leave it incapable of coping in society?

What kind of heartless person are you Paul? Why would you espouse such a horrifying philosophy?


More to the point, would you force mothers to carry a child to term that WILL die... if not before birth, then within hours. Would you force mothers to carry a child to term when doing so WILL kill her AND her child?


Pro Life??? You stand for that disgusting idea and say you are "Pro Life"???

You don't know what the words mean...

[blenIgnigeSef]

O, so Humber decided to sacrifice his wife's health so as to avoid disobeying God. She almost died so that Humber would feel obedient. Sounds about right...

[neotheMit]

O, so Humber decided to sacrifice his wife's health so as to avoid disobeying God. She almost died so that Humber would feel obedient. Sounds about right...

But that's Pro Life...



Congratulations Paul... you've managed to come out with something that's made me angry and sick.

[LymnInvinny]

Paul, why didn't you see it as God's plan for you to not have children? Why did you put your wife thru all that? Why didn't you just adopt rather than risk her life with that sort of fertility treatment?

[AntonioXYZ]

But that's Pro Life...

Its not pro-life, its pro-Humber.

If she had gotten preg and then needed some risky procedures to keep the baby, that would be pro-life.

To undergo the risky fertility procedure when it puts the woman's life in danger, AND there are children waiting for homes is just plain selfish.

[Obenuearema]

I'll slim it down...


Paul's wife is very ill, hospitalized... Paul feared she might die.
Next day, wife improves, if soon let out of hospital.

Note that Paul was seriously considering that wife might die... that will effect future decisions.

Paul gets offer to go teach somewhere... turns it down. (given the close call, wouldn't you want to stay by said wife's side until pregnancy is over? I know I would)
Same day, wife has serious problem.

Aside... if God was looking out for Paul and his wife that day, why did he let all this happen?

Paul kept his head, and did 2 things... one that was good, the other which wasn't so good.

Aside... elevating the feet when someone is in that condition (blood clots from the legs? sure, get gravity to help more of them enter the chest area) is not usually a good idea.

Help arrived within (apparently) a minute... the mind becomes very confused about time when under great stress... and having this happen certainly qualifies. Thus, any given statements of duration are likely to be wildly inaccurate. On the other hand, depending on location and if there was an ambulance in the area, such a fast response is possible. (but given the year, not possible)

Wife is suffering from an incredibly obvious problem... not enough oxygen. Paul credits God with giving the medics wisdom... ignoring the years of studying, training and effort the medics will have put in to become medics.


All in all, a tale that credits God with the glory, and ignores the hard work ordinary men put in... and begs the question, "Why didn't God stop the clots forming in the first place?"

Oh, and isn't it interesting how the doctors worked so hard to keep the wife and children alive, despite the odds being pretty much against them?

No Paul... Glad though I am your wife survived, this story has nothing to do with the subject at hand, and downplays the hard work ordinary people did as though it was nothing.



Too long, didn't read? Glory to God and screw the hardworking men.

[JackieC]

Paul, why didn't you see it as God's plan for you to not have children? Why did you put your wife thru all that? Why didn't you just adopt rather than risk her life with that sort of fertility treatment?

What? And take some children out of the over-crowded adoption system?


Weird thing... if God made it so you couldn't conceive, then God didn't want you to have a child then. You went against his wishes and he allowed the problems to happen to teach you not to go against His Will.

Sounds awful, doesn't it? Almost as awful as the idea that God let all that happen to your wife so He could get the Glory for saving her.


Yes, people who glorify God for that kind of thing really infuriate me... they make anything Man does as nothing.