[choollaBard]

I was debating which forum to put this into and decided to put it here. The reason is that, in a different thread, part of a discussion involved our societal "DNA" or "soul" in America.

Even though WASP can be used as a derogatory term, Protestantism, particularly Puritan, is part of American DNA as well. Not necessarily for the gospel part, but what it imparted on early American society.

So, with that in mind, I figured this would be a good article for this forum.

Long read, but very well written and thought provoking.

The genius of America in the early nineteenth century, Tocqueville thought, was that it pursued “productive industry” without a descent into lethal materialism. Behind America’s balancing act, the pioneering French social thinker noted, lay a common set of civic virtues that celebrated not merely hard work but also thrift, integrity, self-reliance, and modesty—virtues that grew out of the pervasiveness of religion, which Tocqueville called “the first of [America’s] political institutions, . . . imparting morality” to American democracy and free markets. Some 75 years later, sociologist Max Weber dubbed the qualities that Tocqueville observed the “Protestant ethic” and considered them the cornerstone of successful capitalism. Like Tocqueville, Weber saw that ethic most fully realized in America, where it pervaded the society. Preached by luminaries like Benjamin Franklin, taught in public schools, embodied in popular novels, repeated in self-improvement books, and transmitted to immigrants, that ethic undergirded and promoted America’s economic success. Whatever Happened to the Work Ethic? by Steven Malanga, City Journal Summer 2009

[HaroldMY]

As to the Puritans we should all remember that their colony was failing until the Wampanoags helped. May we should learn more about them and their way of life that helped to create the colony in our history books.

I think who Tocqueville is commenting on is important. These would probably be mostly lower class people as the “middle class” would have been a small number of people in the US. Among the lower class he certainly would have found everything he described. They would absolutely need to be energetic, thrifty and inventive.

I would think that if Tocqueville were to visit America today he would find things very similar, except that industrialization created a new middle class tied to the company for life, or companies for life. I think he would find among small businesses and single owner-employee businesses the same energy, thrift, and work ethic.

We could return to the work ethic of the past by shrinking the middle class eliminating industrial jobs.

[QRhnNSg9]

so the middle class has no work ethic? while indsutrialization and specialization of labor certainly allowed massive increases in wealth and, thus, the general welfare of people, it seemed to take some time for work ethic to wear down. even today, some people have it, some do not....and those without work ethic are not ALL people in the middle class. I think it's cultural, work is no longer respected or rewarded as it once was, there's been a shift to consumption. perhaps you are right though, it will take overconsumption to put us back into poverty (or closer than we'd like anyone) to reawaken work ethic. or perhaps that culture is gone, and we'll just rely on the government to provide everything for us. hey, we can get a nice house, parking, grass from PHA, why work and struggle to buy an old rowhome?

[JohnImamadviser]

As to the Puritans we should all remember that their colony was failing until the Wampanoags helped. May we should learn more about them and their way of life that helped to create the colony in our history books.

It should also be noted that they did really poorly under socialism. Real socialism. Everybody shared everything.

The colony started doing well when they realized their error and allowed for private industry and profit.

But, to the main point of the thread, it isn't Purtians per se. It was the thought of John Calvin which was the influence in this matter, and the Purtians were Calvinists.

[RildFiemodo]

It should also be noted that they did really poorly under socialism. Real socialism. Everybody shared everything.

The colony started doing well when they realized their error and allowed for private industry and profit.

But, to the main point of the thread, it isn't Purtians per se. It was the thought of John Calvin which was the influence in this matter, and the Purtians were Calvinists.

I had forgotten that nugget of history, thanks for bringing it up. yes, it's oft overlooked that one of the things that turned the colony around was private property.

[dodadaxia]

I didn't imply that the middle class don't have a work ethic. Only that who was being observed were probably not middle class on the whole.

If we are going to explore the cultural aspects of work we might also think about the Puritans and the culture question of why "socialism" didn't work for them. The two things that would lead to the failure of the colony under socialism would be greed and sloth. While the Native Americans didn't use the Capitalist system their system was successful. I'm not trying to be too hard on the Puritans, although they might have appreciated it if I was, but they were in a life and death situation and was it a cultural problem of greed and sloth?

so the middle class has no work ethic? while indsutrialization and specialization of labor certainly allowed massive increases in wealth and, thus, the general welfare of people, it seemed to take some time for work ethic to wear down. even today, some people have it, some do not....and those without work ethic are not ALL people in the middle class. I think it's cultural, work is no longer respected or rewarded as it once was, there's been a shift to consumption. perhaps you are right though, it will take overconsumption to put us back into poverty (or closer than we'd like anyone) to reawaken work ethic. or perhaps that culture is gone, and we'll just rely on the government to provide everything for us. hey, we can get a nice house, parking, grass from PHA, why work and struggle to buy an old rowhome?

[fd8IIys2]

...But, to the main point of the thread, it isn't Purtians per se. It was the thought of John Calvin which was the influence in this matter, and the Purtians were Calvinists.

George Whitefield was also a Calvinist. In his 1740 letter to the inhabitants of Maryland, VA, NC, SC, and GA (Jan. 23), he wrote, defending the “Negroes,” confronted the slave masters of Maryland, Virginia and the Carolinas. He even denounced some pastors! Here are his words: “Not long since, God hath been pleased to make some of the Negroes in New-England, vessels of mercy; and some, I hear, have been brought to cry out “What shall we do to be saved?" in the province of Pennsylvania. Doubtless there is a time, when the fullness of the Gentiles will come in; and then, I believe, if not before, these despised slaves will find the gospel of Christ to be the power of God to their salvation, as well as we. But I know, all arguments to prove the necessity of taking care of your Negroes souls, though never so conclusive, will prove ineffectual, till you are convinced of the necessity of securing the salvation of your own. That you yourselves are not effectually convinced of this, I think is too notorious to want evidence. A general deadness as to divine things, and not to say, a general profaneness, is discernible both in pastors and people.

[layedgebiamma]

Because when you get a job... in a lot of cases you're going to have to submit to a background check, credit check, etc...

then the company wants you to pee in a cup.



That's a wonderful way to start a long-term relationship with someone.

I was debating which forum to put this into and decided to put it here. The reason is that, in a different thread, part of a discussion involved our societal "DNA" or "soul" in America.

Even though WASP can be used as a derogatory term, Protestantism, particularly Puritan, is part of American DNA as well. Not necessarily for the gospel part, but what it imparted on early American society.

So, with that in mind, I figured this would be a good article for this forum.

Long read, but very well written and thought provoking.


Whatever Happened to the Work Ethic? by Steven Malanga, City Journal Summer 2009

[fgjhfgjh]

As to the Puritans we should all remember that their colony was failing until the Wampanoags helped.

and

It should also be noted that they did really poorly under socialism. Real socialism. Everybody shared everything.

The colony started doing well when they realized their error and allowed for private industry and profit.

First, in the interest of accuracy, you're both talking about the "Pilgrims," not the "Puritans." The Pilgrims settled in Plymouth, the Puritans in Boston. Plymouth was a separate colony until 1691.

As for "socialism," the Plymouth settlement practiced "common field" agriculture for the first few years. This is not "socialism," but rather a system where the community held land, which was assigned to individuals to cultivate. The cultivators kept their crop. It was a means of ensuring that everyone in the community had land to farm.

Common field agriculture survived into the 18th century in Britain, finally falling victim tio the "enclosure" movement. Enclosure acts allowed the feudal landlords to carve up the common fields and sell them for a quick buck (or pound, in this case). The result was millions of now landless poor who flocked to the cities where they became industrial workers, or to America.

We could return to the work ethic of the past by shrinking the middle class eliminating industrial jobs.

Well, we've sent our manufacturing jobs to China. Has it helped?

I think if de Tocqueville came today, he would see a strong work ethic in a number of places, not least among the recent immigrants that the Right likes to complain about.