[Roxanjbra]

I have been a little troubled by this incident being that we to have horses and live on a horse farm.
My friend that also owns a horse farm had 2 horses,2donkeys,1 cat,3 dogs one dog was a Pitbull,Jack Russell Terrier and a mixed GSD and 3 small kids.She raised their pitbull DJ from a baby at 8 weeks,he was raised in the house with the kids,dogs and even cat..got along with them all perfectly..he had never bothered the horses or donkeys.She would turn her dogs out to go to the bathroom, she lives on a 15 acre farm with no neighbors..After a few hours she turned her dogs back into the house to find her pitbull DJ was a bloody mess...she went on the hunt and did a head count to find one of the donkeys down in the pasture,when she went to him she noticed the entire rear end of the donkey was ripped to shreds...she called the vet out and had to euthanize the donkey.This is where she failed big time IMO...she continued on with routine as normal and several weeks later DJ attacked the second donkey ripping the rear out of him as well..this one she was able to save but spent tons of money and took a long time for recovery but the donkey is home now and doing well.DJ had to be put to sleep.

My whole point of this post is to find out why would DJ get along so well for so many years with all the animals..DJ was 5 years old when this happened, then one day just attack the donkeys so violently? makes me wonder can they ever really be trusted?

[Babposa]

Sorry to sound harsh or insensitive but the owners ignorance caused this. One cannot nurture out nature (prey drive), one can only understand and manage it. Sounds like the dogs were left unsupervised and allowed to roam and get into whatever they wanted. I do not fault the dog or the breed of dog. Any dog (regardless of breed) with a high prey drive could be capable of going after another animal.

---------- Post added at 09:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 AM ----------

because they were unsupervised no one will ever know what actually occurred, but the why rests on the owner.

[WaydayTew]

My whole point of this post is to find out why would DJ get along so well for so many years with all the animals..DJ was 5 years old when this happened, then one day just attack the donkeys so violently? makes me wonder can they ever really be trusted?

Because he's a freaking dog, that's why. Dogs don't generalize. They don't go "oh, well, I've never done this before, so let me completely ignore my instincts because I grew up with this donkey". Dogs have this thing called PREY DRIVE- something moves, they chase it. Some dogs chase to chase, some dogs chase to attack. It's hardwired in every single dog. If you present a dog with a prey animal (a donkey), you're better off assuming that they're going to chase it.

I want you to watch my videos of Lily lure coursing and listen to the sounds she makes watching the plastic bag move on the pulley system. It's a plastic bag. But it acts like prey. I never trained that drive, it's instinct to give chase to something that moves. Some dogs stick with it, others give up.

Dogs are not robots. They are animals, and you're better off assuming that in the end, they are going to go with their instinct over their training. This is why dogs should always be kept on leash, no matter how well trained they are, because you never know when that one ornery squirrel is going to make that give chase, right in front of a moving vehicle.

So yea, your friend failed his animals. It's unfortunate that the dog was put down for the human's incompetence.

[erepsysoulpfbs]

Wow so sad the dog was put down to yet another ignorant owner.
What's he gonna do when his other terrier starts attacking the animals or when his shepherd starts hearding his animals? Kill them too for doing what comes natural to them?
Whats wrong is your friend is a moron...

[JJascaxal]

dogs are dogs you can't train that out of them and I don't see why people keep trying

[mr.nemo]

Bold the entire original post and put it in the stickies and label it a note to all you cat owners and multiple pet homes. Just a dog doing his doggy thing. You can trust a pit bull 100% to at some point in his life want to fight with something that has fur and four legs. If you don't like it, get another dog. I feel bed for the donkeys and the dog as they were unfortunate to have an idiot for an owner.

This is the story that keeps on giving, and anybody who believes this can't happen with their pets is in denial.

[WaydayTew]

Bold the entire original post and put it in the stickies and label it a note to all you cat owners and multiple pet homes. Just a dog doing his doggy thing. You can trust a pit bull 100% to at some point in his life want to fight with something that has fur and four legs. If you don't like it, get another dog. I feel bed for the donkeys and the dog as they were unfortunate to have an idiot for an owner.

This is the story that keeps on giving, and anybody who believes this can't happen with their pets is in denial.

That's what supervision is for. It can happen to anyone with multiple animals in their house. If you supervise and make sure you know how to effectively and efficiently break up an altercation, you'll be alright. If you think "it'll never happen" and aren't prepared for it, that's when you come home to something dead. If you have a pit bull, have a breakstick and know how to use it. If you have multiple dogs, know where your leashes are and where to tether dogs during an altercation to keep them from coming back for each other and how to keep the other dogs from getting into it. If you have any doubts about whether two animals should be together, err on the side of caution. If none of this sounds pleasant for you, I suggest a single dog home. If you think it will never happen to you, it will.

[Savviioor]

My whole point of this post is to find out why would DJ get along so well for so many years with all the animals..DJ was 5 years old when this happened, then one day just attack the donkeys so violently? makes me wonder can they ever really be trusted?

Hell no they can't be trusted unsupervised with other animals. It's a dog with with prey drive that's geared towards damage, versus one that's geared towards controlling, like the Border Collie or other herding dogs. Honestly the only problem with that dog was your friend's ignorance. Harsh but true. If that's something a person can't fathom then they need not own the breed

[ZwHRoTTn]

I have been a little troubled by this incident being that we to have horses and live on a horse farm.
My friend that also owns a horse farm had 2 horses,2donkeys,1 cat,3 dogs one dog was a Pitbull,Jack Russell Terrier and a mixed GSD and 3 small kids.She raised their pitbull DJ from a baby at 8 weeks,he was raised in the house with the kids,dogs and even cat..got along with them all perfectly..he had never bothered the horses or donkeys.She would turn her dogs out to go to the bathroom, she lives on a 15 acre farm with no neighbors..After a few hours she turned her dogs back into the house to find her pitbull DJ was a bloody mess...she went on the hunt and did a head count to find one of the donkeys down in the pasture,when she went to him she noticed the entire rear end of the donkey was ripped to shreds...she called the vet out and had to euthanize the donkey.This is where she failed big time IMO...she continued on with routine as normal and several weeks later DJ attacked the second donkey ripping the rear out of him as well..this one she was able to save but spent tons of money and took a long time for recovery but the donkey is home now and doing well.DJ had to be put to sleep.

My whole point of this post is to find out why would DJ get along so well for so many years with all the animals..DJ was 5 years old when this happened, then one day just attack the donkeys so violently? makes me wonder can they ever really be trusted?

Because your friend didn't do anything about the first donkey that was ripped apart, I'm going to assume she doesn't know much about dogs, the breed especially.

What the general public considers "fine" and what someone else who knows how to read dogs is "fine" are two completely separate things. Just because DJ never killed another donkey before he was 5 does NOT mean he never displayed any warning signs that he would if he got the chance, they probably just went completely undetected because your friend had no idea what to look for. I'm not exaggerating, it can be as subtle as a LOOK. A look can be all some people need to know that a dog can't be trusted around another dog, or cat, or whatever animal.

I think it was you that posted you had a new pit bull puppy and one of your horses bit him or kicked him (sorry if it wasn't you). I think you should really think hard about the interactions your new puppy is having with the horses seeing as this has happened so close to home.

I know a lot of farmers advocate their farm dog getting booted once to learn it's lesson and stay away from the horses, but this breed isn't like a lab, or a beagle. Pain sometimes just turns up the volume, or at the very least, with bad handling will give a negative perception of the horses, or other dogs etc.

I personally would never leave my dog running out with the horses regardless of whether I thought he was going to rip them apart or not. Moreso because a dog can easily be killed by a half assed kick to the head from a horse.

Hades will be spending a lot of time with me at the farm this summer and once I've worked with him around the horses, when he's off leash he will be e-collared for the horses safety and his own. I might never have to stim him, but I've put the e-collar on myself and I have 100% confidence, that if there's a sticky situation I can literally disable Hades with a high, continuous stim. I am in NO WAY advising you to use an e-collar, or anyone else, it's not a tool for the inexperienced. Just saying that even with Hades very high level of training, my vigilance and an excellent stop, I will not let him run around loose around the horses without a back up plan. And who knows, maybe I get working with him and I decide that it's not worth it to even try with the e-collar on. I won't know until I do it.

There are people that use pit bulls as cattle dogs and they do an excellent job, but it's best to leave that type of work to the experienced. I do not think it's something that just anyone can do safely or responsibly with reliability.

[Roxanjbra]

I agree,I believe warning signs had to be there long before the attack.

No,my horse has not kicked my dogs or puppy if so they would be dead ecspecially the puppy.I have a new Amstaff puppy, not pitbull (but we want go there)

[Savviioor]

I agree,I believe warning signs had to be there long before the attack.

No,my horse has not kicked my dogs or puppy if so they would be dead ecspecially the puppy.I have a new Amstaff puppy, not pitbull (but we want go there)

Amstaff or Pitbull, the same rules apply for leaving them unsupervised around animals

[emorbimefed]

Yup. This was a dog doing what a dog instinctively does and totally the fault of the owner. The owner should have fenced in an area for the dogs to enjoy and never let them near the livestock without close supervision. The dog was fine and could be trusted, the human was not.

[ZwHRoTTn]

Sorry on the breed mix up! (And no, we won't go down that road! lol)

But Amstaff or APBT, the warning still resounds. Letting a horse push around a young mind such as a bully breed at this age, without handling and addressing the situation properly, could lead to issues that could have possibly been avoided.

[Rwujnezq]

A dog is a dog is a dog.

[Roxanjbra]

[QUOTE=MJJean;1138376]Yup. This was a dog doing what a dog instinctively does and totally the fault of the owner. The owner should have fenced in an area for the dogs to enjoy and never let them near the livestock without close supervision. The dog was fine and could be trusted, the human was not.[/QUOTE

I agree,she had electric fence at the time and the dogs run right under it,since then she has put up dog wire fencing to keep dogs out of the horse pasture.

---------- Post added at 01:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 PM ----------

Sorry on the breed mix up! (And no, we won't go down that road! lol)

But Amstaff or APBT, the warning still resounds. Letting a horse push around a young mind such as a bully breed at this age, without handling and addressing the situation properly, could lead to issues that could have possibly been avoided.

I had to be saracstic...ha..ha..Just kidding..so much controversy of the two being one in the same or separate breeds.

I guess one would wonder why he lived so long in peace with them then this happen...I know a dog is a dog but my Pyr is totally 100% trusted around our farm animals..he protects them with his life!So not ALL dogs will kill and chase livestock..I dont agree with that statement at all..people pay big bucks for some dogs to protect there livestock.

[WaydayTew]

I had to be saracstic...ha..ha..Just kidding..so much controversy of the two being one in the same or separate breeds.

I guess one would wonder why he lived so long in peace with them then this happen...I know a dog is a dog but my Pyr is totally 100% trusted around our farm animals..he protects them with his life!So not ALL dogs will kill and chase livestock..I dont agree with that statement at all..people pay big bucks for some dogs to protect there livestock.

Pyrs are livestock guardians. A pyr that kills livestock should be culled. An amstaff can't be held to that standard.

[theatadug]

[QUOTE=Dakotas;1138394]

Yup. This was a dog doing what a dog instinctively does and totally the fault of the owner. The owner should have fenced in an area for the dogs to enjoy and never let them near the livestock without close supervision. The dog was fine and could be trusted, the human was not.[/QUOTE

I agree,she had electric fence at the time and the dogs run right under it,since then she has put up dog wire fencing to keep dogs out of the horse pasture.

---------- Post added at 01:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:11 PM ----------



I had to be saracstic...ha..ha..Just kidding..so much controversy of the two being one in the same or separate breeds.

I guess one would wonder why he lived so long in peace with them then this happen...I know a dog is a dog but my Pyr is totally 100% trusted around our farm animals..he protects them with his life!So not ALL dogs will kill and chase livestock..I dont agree with that statement at all..people pay big bucks for some dogs to protect there livestock.

The problem is you are comparing a Live Stock Guarding breed to a gladiator pit breed. IF you breed a type of dog for 100's of years to guard the flock after culling and selective breeding you should have a solid protector of your live stock.

[Savviioor]

I'm pretty sure she was replying to Robyn's comment of "A dog is a dog is a dog"

[Roxanjbra]

I'm pretty sure she was replying to Robyn's comment of "A dog is a dog is a dog"

yes I was,I was not comparing my Pyr to a pitbull.

I am here to learn about the Amstaffs being I am a first time owner of the breed,My hubby has raised,bred and rescued "pitbulls" his entire life until about 15 years ago but never owned an actual Amstaff so my whole purpose of joining the forum,to ask and learn not to be judged or rude comments thrown my way..so please if you have those just stay away from my posts all together.

[mr.nemo]

"I guess one would wonder why he lived so long in peace with them then this happen...I know a dog is a dog but my Pyr is totally 100% trusted around our farm animals..he protects them with his life!So not ALL dogs will kill and chase livestock..I dont agree with that statement at all..people pay big bucks for some dogs to protect there livestock."
Precisely why you should gather information on a forum like this. Pit bulls are not monsters they are selectively bred dogs for the purpose of combat. One does not have to WONDER why something like this would happen after years of it not happening. One has to wonder why it did not happen sooner. If this is not understood by someone then that someone should not own one. Your husband has owned pit bulls for 15 years then I would guess the incident would not surprise him.

Every pit bull I ever owned was perfectly capable of behaving around other animals to some extent although they were all animal aggressive. From the time they became about 18 months old, you could see a change in the way they look at other animals, as if on some level they are battling with their instinct to seek and destroy.

My dog can walk calmly around other dogs, but if given a chance to make eye contact or stare at them for any length of time his training begins to break down and his urge to fight starts to overwhelm his ability to resist. It is the dog is a dog is a dog attitude that is the enemy of this breed. They are different and need to be treated as such. It isn't rocket science but most of us on this forum wish those who refuse to recognize the differences would do us all a favor and avoid owning the breed. This is not directed at you per se.

Most dogs even animal aggressive dogs would not tangle with a 1000 lb donkey. Most dogs, even aggressive dogs would be deterred by the size or any effort like a kick a donkey would deliver if bothered by a 50 lb dog. A pit bull on the other hand was bred to never be deterred, to ignore any pain or injury. A donkey kick only serves to heighten the dogs instinct to fight harder and more fiercly. They began as bull baiting dogs, and then were refined to even a higher standard of combat and determination. Why on earth would someone trust a bull baiting, animal combatant expert like a pit bull with live stock? It is like trusting a fox to guard your chickens, or trusting a lion to baby sit a deer.