[anenselog]

Has anyone ever heard of someone showing an altered bitch and not telling the judge??
What are the repercussions if they found out. It seems like it could be done since some don't have a scar.
**I don't show conformation but I was just curious.

[KlaraNovikoffa]

What would be the point. If you were successfull, you'd be found out quickly when you didn't breed and just as quickly banned. I suppose someone could get away with it for awhile but why bother. Showing is a lot of work.

[anenselog]

Very true, I was just curious. I know that the point is the conformation of the said dog. I was just talking with
a gal that wanted to show but her dog was spayed and she REALLY wanted to take her in some conformation classes
just for the heck of it. She wasn't talking huge important type shows.

[Nesskissabe]

The only time that I have ever seen an altered bitch shown in conformation was at a specialty and she was a finished champion. Once dogs are over the age of 8 years old they can be altered and shown in the Seniors class. As has been stated there is no reason to alter a bitch and show her in conformation. The point of conformation is to judge breeding stock. But, it is always awesome to see some of the older dogs get out there and strut their stuff. That is the only reason that I have ever seen an altered dog in the conformation ring and it is always at specialties.

[Drugsonl]

No I haven't, but like speedpeddler said, you wouldn't last long! Show people talk.

However, UKC offers an altered class

[anenselog]

Jakes Mom - I think she wanted to put her dog up against others to see if she had "picked a nice pup" kind of thing.

Kady - Ooo I will have to let her know. I am not sure what registry the dog is under. It is not a pit bull though or AST.

Thanks!!

[CicyHannyCeli]

APBA offers an Altered class as well.

[BoomBully]

Never heard of it. In my area it's all about titling to breed.

Did know of a male with one teste that didn't descend, they gave the dog a ball implant and low and behold the other one dropped. I didn't see it personally but it gives me a good laugh...

"I think there's one too many here..."

[KuznehikVasaN]

Exceptionally unethical to show a spayed bitch in a class that is not specifically designated as such.

The testicular implant for the cryptorchid dog is even worse- cryptorchidism is a genetic defect that will be passed down and predisposes to cancer. At least the spayed bitch won't be passing on any genetic defects.

[anenselog]

Crypt-orchids are becoming really prevalent in QH's and with AI the owners can cover the defect up. I always ask before breeding and want to "see" for myself.

Genevieve, just for argument sake: what if you had an intact female you didn't EVER plan on breeding but put her through conformation classes just for titles and then spayed her. What would be the difference if she were spayed before? I understand the "what would the point be" argument because I feel the same but as far as the ethical point of view goes.

[KuznehikVasaN]

The point of showing is to breed in the future. If I did not have a consideration for breeding in the future I wouldn't waste the money on showing- to CH out a dog costs thousands of dollars, countless hours prepping and traveling, and lots of miles on the truck. However, just because a dog does well in the show ring doesn't mean it's worth breeding to me. Have to prove yourself a worker and stable, too.

On the other hand, if I have a dog that I start showing and it's not winning I am going to wash it out- what's the point? Not going to waste my time, the time of the judge and the time of other people showing.

[anenselog]

Gotcha! Good point! There seem to be quite a few unstable ring dogs.....
Definitely makes sense, personally I could not handle the round in circles trotting and stacking. I HATE rail classes and showmanship
classes for the QH too BUT, they to have their purpose.
Thanks

[diundasmink]

Yes there's somebody I know that has done this. They are a member of this very forum. Some people may even respect her. I don't though as she has proven time and time again what kind of person she is to me. I won't call her out by name in public. It's very unethical and shows how low some people will stoop. To the best of my knowledge she continued to do it in the AADR even after they were informed it was going on.

[hotelhyatt]

I don't show or compete (yet), so you guys can take this worth a grain of salt if ya want!

I love dogs and I could see myself showing with no intention of ever breeding. Just as a hobby, to see how my dog stacks up against others of the breed, to meet people who share my interest etc. etc. I mean, I understand it costs $$ to show, but people spend that kind of $$ on hobbies all the time. I also understand it is a HUGE time sink, but I spent more hours playing World of Warcraft back when I raided with my Priest and Hunter than some people work in a week.

Would I show an altered dog (spayed female, neutered male with implants)...no. I do agree it is unethical to show a dog that has been altered without it being a show that allows such.

---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 AM ----------

One thing that has crossed my mind...

Shows are supposed to be to prove a dog in conformation so that the owner knows if it is good breeding stock, yes? We also live in a spay and neuter culture. I would bet a lot of outstanding dogs that are good examples of their breed have been altered because the owners have had it pounded into their heads that they should alter their dog if they love it. Considering that, I have to wonder if altered dogs competing with unaltered dogs would be a better system.

[KuznehikVasaN]

There are classes that spayed and neutered dogs can compete in- they are called fun classes. I encourage everyone to put their dogs in the fun classes that wants to.

Putting a spayed/ neutered dog in a regular class is unethical. Those dogs have already been removed from the gene pool- it's pointless to show them.

[fluoxet]

Putting a spayed/ neutered dog in a regular class is unethical. Those dogs have already been removed from the gene pool- it's pointless to show them.

This

[Grenader]

Its unfair to the people who spend their hard earned money to prove their stock. I understand registries want money no matter where it comes from but respect is lost when you know your money was just wasted on points given to a spayed dog regardless of how conformationally sound that dog is.

I can understand people wanting to show spayed dogs to have fun and gain experience but that is what fun classes are for.

[DoctorAlexandro]

I don't show or compete (yet), so you guys can take this worth a grain of salt if ya want!

I love dogs and I could see myself showing with no intention of ever breeding. Just as a hobby, to see how my dog stacks up against others of the breed, to meet people who share my interest etc. etc. I mean, I understand it costs $$ to show, but people spend that kind of $$ on hobbies all the time. I also understand it is a HUGE time sink, but I spent more hours playing World of Warcraft back when I raided with my Priest and Hunter than some people work in a week.

^ This is how I would approach showing. It's a fun endeavor for me and the dog. It's my time and money to waste. I would follow the rules though (i.e. only enter designated classes).

Oddly enough just started with WWC - perhaps there's a link there? LOL

[hotelhyatt]

Its unfair to the people who spend their hard earned money to prove their stock. I understand registries want money no matter where it comes from but respect is lost when you know your money was just wasted on points given to a spayed dog regardless of how conformationally sound that dog is.

I can understand people wanting to show spayed dogs to have fun and gain experience but that is what fun classes are for.

Yeah, but if the point to showing is to prove breed worthy and the dog loses to a spayed dog then I would think the unaltered dog isn't the best example of the breed and maybe shouldn't be bred...

[Grenader]

Yeah, but if the point to showing is to prove breed worthy and the dog loses to a spayed dog then I would think the unaltered dog isn't the best example of the breed and maybe shouldn't be bred...

Not necessarily, a dog isn't going to win every class its entered in. Every judge has his own interpretation of the standard and with the wide variety of looks this breed has, its impossible to win them all.

Showing for the sake of showing regardless of the intent to breed is one thing, deliberately showing a spayed animal is another.