[Lictimind]

How can you tell which dog is on the top of the hierarchy list??? I got Babs my 11 yr old fixed female 8 years ago, I adopted Max my 4 year old a year and a half ago...these two have had a few (2) spats not serious but still a spat, I just adopted Macy and 11 year old about 3 weeks ago, she gets along with dogs on walks...took her to pit bull awareness day here lots of dogs she was fine sniffed others was real good, but at home she is snarky and has snapped at both of the other 2 on occassion how ever they can all sit in the livingroom on dog beds with no issue (under supervision of course)..... kinda at a lose for what her issue is..

Now I am in charge of the house but I am sure there is some sort of hierarchy between them, is Macy just trying to find her nitch, be the boss, or just a jerk. how do you guys handle if there is a spat or a dispute no teeth touch each other but snapping.. what do you do to the aggressor to let them know that that behavior is NOT tolerated without making it worse

[googlopharm]

Crate & Rotate

[sEe]

She doesn't have an "issue" - she's a bull breed. You're dealing with dogs who, genetically, don't usually like other dogs. You aren't going to simply teach them that hundreds of years of genetics aren't okay in your house.

If you don't want spats, keep the dogs apart at all times. It's a fact of owning a pit bull type dog in addition to other dogs!

[Lictimind]

dosn't really answer the question, they are seperated not with crates but with rooms, and I also have crates. she likes other dogs, except in my home.

[Ubgvuncd]

Get a break stick. You can't really teach them that "spats" aren't okay. They will do it anyways. That's like trying to teach a dachshund not to chase a small squirrel along a fence. It's going to do it anyways because that's what it was engineered to do.

[chuecfafresslds]

what do you do to the aggressor to let them know that that behavior is NOT tolerated without making it worse
There really is much you can do. It's like trying to teach a retriever not to retrieve or a Rat Terrier not to kill small animals.

[Ubgvuncd]

If you didn't want "spats", you shouldn't have gotten pit bulls.

[JessicaLin]

Here's a good article for you to read:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=1723

By Kathy Diamond Davis
Author and Trainer

Dominance
What people think is dominance in a dog is usually something else. True dominance in a dog is more often a praiseworthy trait than a problem. Which dog is dominant tends to change according to the composition of the pack or family; evidently, dominance is not the trait it has sometimes been thought to be.


Dominance with Other Dogs
In a pack, there has to be a leader. But it’s more complicated than that in most packs. There may be one leader for hunting and another for keeping order among the crazy adolescent pack members and perhaps another for defending the home territory from intruders.


The true structure of a pack of dogs is so complex and changeable that we humans can only get a sketchy idea of how it works. The body language of dogs means one thing in one situation and something entirely different in another. Trying to reduce dog language to reading the position of the ears plus the level of the tail plus how much hair is standing up on the back of the neck is, well, silly. We simply do not have the knowledge to read this language fluently.
People who can manage a pack tend to learn by trial and error and by many hours spent observing the dogs. Their verbalization of what is going on with the dog pack structure can be wrong even when they take the correct action to keep peace. It is just that complicated! A veterinary behavior specialist can likely help you find ways to manage the dogs better, but there will remain many unknowns about exactly what the dogs are thinking and why they do what they do.


Sometimes you’re advised to pick the dog you want to be the pack leader and back that dog against the others. Or you may be told to pick the dog that is already the pack leader and back that one. The problem is that we can’t tell which dog is pack leader, which dog is “supposed” to lead in this particular situation, and what other factors are acting on the dogs’ behavior besides leadership.


For example, one dog may be really touchy about certain things. The other dogs won’t let an unstable dog lead the pack, but they will avoid triggering the touchiness. They will realize, as humans would with another human, “that girl just goes nuts when we talk about politics, so let’s talk about something else around her!” Dogs don’t talk about politics...well, actually, they do! Politics is working out a structure for the group to take actions that work for the various members and for the group as a whole. Dogs understand dog politics quite well.


Let’s say a particular dog has a thing about the tennis balls. She goes berserk when a tennis ball is thrown, and forgets that she is not the pack leader and really should let the leader have the ball. A good pack leader may well determine that this dog’s fixation on tennis balls is no threat to the pack, and heck, someday it might come in handy.


He (let’s say the pack leader is a male) may just make sure the crazy girl always gets the first ball thrown by the human, so she can hang on to that one while everyone else goes on with the game. She’s not taking the role of leader—she’s being indulged by a bright pack leader who recognizes her need.


A pack leader can be playful. In fact, since dogs work out a lot of their relationships through play, you may notice he often draws other dogs into games. He may take toys away to demonstrate to them that they are not in charge: he is. In a case like this, if you give the other dog another toy, he may take that one, too. Just by seeing a dog take toys away from another dog, you can’t conclude he is pack leader. He might simply have a fixation on toys.


If the dog is leader at the job of protecting the pack’s territory, he may drive the other dogs back from the fence when someone is on the other side. This can look aggressive if he flattens the other dog and the other dog squawks. When you look closely, though, you’ll probably see the dog who is being flattened actually mostly ducks to express obedience to the leader’s command to “stay back!” It happens quickly so the protector dog can put his attention back on patrolling the boundary.


Dominance in a smooth pack means taking responsibility for the welfare of the group. He is putting himself on the line, staking his life to protect the other dogs. Pack leader dogs are often heroes, and you may notice the other dogs adore them.


A dog who would lead in one group of dogs will often follow in a different group. Dogs have a hardwired ability to pick the best leader.
The ability to pick the best pack leader is altered, though, by selective breeding for certain traits, such as the fierce combativeness bred into some terriers. This behavior is sometimes called dominance, when actually it is the completely different trait of gameness. When one of two or more dogs of the same sex has this trait, it may be impossible for the dogs to work out a peaceful pack order.


With a male-female pair of dogs in the same home, pack leadership is usually an easy affair. He may fall naturally into the role of territorial protector, which can cause problems if the female is neurotic and aggressive. He may try to be even more paranoid than she is, pushing his temperament to extremes. This is one of many reasons not to leave your dogs outside unsupervised, even in a fenced yard.


For the most part, though, the male will be “top male,” and the female “top female,” a structure that doesn’t put them in much direct competition with each other. If you avoid management that would trigger deep competitive instincts—such as feeding them together—you’ll likely have two dogs who get along well with each other.


Keeping two or more dogs of the same sex together does force them to choose a leader, and some groups will be unable to do this. In nature, dogs who can’t fit into the pack leave. In our homes they can’t leave, making it our responsibility to choose carefully and manage our dogs wisely so they don’t have to live with the danger of serious pack disputes.


Pack-Order Changes
Pack order and which dog is dominant can shift with changes in circumstances. At such times, fighting is a risk with same-sex dogs kept together, even if they have not fought before or previous problems seem to have been resolved. Alternatively, some changes will relieve former conflicts. Some of situations can trigger pack-order shifts, some for the better and some for the worse:
1. Dogs passing from puppyhood to adolescence, adolescence to adulthood, adulthood to old age.
2. A dog leaving the group or returning from an absence. The length of the absence makes a difference to the dogs.
3. One or more of the dogs being ill.
4. One or more dogs being pregnant or in heat or in false pregnancy. Even a neighbor dog in one of these conditions can upset your pack.
5. A visiting dog or visiting human.
6. New people moving into the family.
7. A family member moving out or being gone for an extended period of time.
8. The family moving with the dog.
9. A new dog joining the pack.
10. A dog dying or being rehomed out of the pack.
11. Time spent with each dog as an individual so that each one feels important to you and feels there is enough of your attention to go around.
12. Training with each dog separately and the dogs together as a group.
13. Interfering in dog pack negotiations.
14. Giving dogs rewards when they refrain from jumping each other.
15. Arranging feeding times so the dogs feel secure from having other dogs interfere with their food.
16. Giving highly desired chew items and toys only when the dogs are separated.
17. Spaying and neutering the dogs. It matters at what age you do this, and has the best effect on behavior if done by about a year of age.


Dominance with Humans
What is interpreted as dominant behavior of a dog toward humans is usually the result of misunderstandings between the family and the dog. These can sometimes be profound, even tragic. Some people manage to ruin their puppies over the issues of housetraining and the chewing that accompanies teething. When the natural behavior of a dog is viewed as stubbornness, defiance, anger and dominance on the part of the dog, it’s a recipe for disaster.


Usually people don’t even give housetraining a thought until after they’ve gotten a dog. Considering that it’s complex behavior the dog has to learn at the same time he or she develops the physical ability to do it, and is one of the first things you’ll teach your dog, housetraining is extremely important. The way many people go about it, the dog gets the idea that moving bladder or bowels enrages humans.


Teething causes problems because the dog picks up something to chew and the person considers this a deliberate destructive act by the dog. The whole family chases and corners the dog, forcefully removes the object the dog has, and then may scream at and even hit the poor animal.


Mishandling a dog for training results in a dog who distrusts and fears humans. When negative behavior from the dog emerges, it may be labeled dominance when actually it’s fear or defensiveness or both. The dog doesn’t have many options. When you corner the dog, the option of running is taken away. If the dog freezes and you still yell and hit, there’s really no further recourse for the dog other than self-defense.


Sadly, many humans label any behavior from a dog that is not what the person WANTS as dominance. Never mind that the person did not give the dog any other choice or help the dog understand what was wanted. Never mind that dogs are the victims of their own instincts, not able to easily control these hard-wired behaviors that were given to them to help their species survive, and further altered by human selective breeding.


A famous trainer named Delmar Smith often said there is nothing wrong with any dog that was not caused by a human. Either the problem comes from the way humans bred the dog, the way humans have treated the dog, or the way some human is training the dog. It is never the dog’s fault.


There are some dogs who are capable of being dangerously dominant if mishandled. These dogs belong with experienced handlers who have the knack of leadership with dogs. Roughing up the dog is not the solution, because it actually challenges the dog to become more dominant.


When a dog is bullied, two undesirable things happen. First, you are acting like a pack underling who wants to move up in the pack. You’re forcing your dog to show you his stuff. Fighting with your dog is not the way! If instead you assume your authority with your dog, establish and maintain it with good training, and show yourself a reliable leader, even a dog capable of dominance will be happy to follow your lead.
The second undesirable thing that happens when bullying a dog is that the dog is taught to be a bully! Let’s say Dad or Big Brother manhandles the family dog. This is the behavior being modeled for the dog as how to deal with those who are weaker. Who in the family is weaker than the dog? The littler children are weaker. You may be teaching your dog to show dominance to your children or other humans when you manhandle your dog. This can have tragic results.


If the humans run the family in a fair, reliable way, most dogs will have no desire to disturb this stable pack structure. The people provide the food and all the other good things, and it’s easy to make the people happy by following their clear directions. That’s a great life for a dog.


Train your dog to obey basic commands such as sit and down. When you have any doubt of your dog’s willingness to submit to your authority, instruct your dog to “down,” without putting hands on the dog. The dog’s compliance with that command tells you that, yep, this dog is at this moment submitting to you.


If you physically force the dog into the down, you could trigger a defense mechanism. A defensive reaction on the part of the dog would not be dominance, but could still be dangerous and confusing to both you and the dog. Teach your dog to “down” on command without being touched, and you will have better and safer control.


Dominance Is No Excuse
Sometimes the label of “dominance” on a dog has become an excuse to punish that dog in a misguided attempt to teach the dog to submit to humans. Because of the difficulty of reading a dog’s body language and the miscommunications that happen between dogs and humans, this has led to horrible results.


Instead of labeling your dog, teach your dog. Develop a partnership with your dog. Be a reliable leader. Manage behavior rather than punishing the dog for mistakes that could have been prevented with better planning and training.


If your dog seems to have a dangerous temperament, seek the help of a veterinary behavior specialist in person. There are many causes for dogs doing things we don’t like, or not doing what we want them to do. When a problem doesn’t respond to sensible management and training, don’t postpone getting expert help. The sooner you have an accurate diagnosis and treatment plan, the better your chances of a happy ending.

[sEe]

dosn't really answer the question, they are seperated not with crates but with rooms, and I also have crates. she likes other dogs, except in my home.

Okay, so she doesn't like the dogs in your home. Her personal preference. Don't force her to be around them, get annoyed, and go after them. It's THAT simple.

[Lictimind]

Thank you Tiffseagles very informative article.

Of course I have break sticks< I have pit bulls, and I don't think anyone wants spats...and regarless of the spats and all that goes with owning this breed, they are my favorite.

[sEe]

If your dogs are properly managed, spats will be rare. The more spats they have, the more they'll LOOK for reasons to get into it.

Part of what goes along with owning this breed is the understanding that your dogs might have to be separated at all times...

[CymnMaync]

If you have all your dogs together in a room, the dog that follows first out the door is next in hierarchy to you, this does not stay constant. Spats may be over anything, not just dominance or wanting to be boss.

[U5pz6B71]

how do you guys handle if there is a spat or a dispute no teeth touch each other but snapping.. what do you do to the aggressor to let them know that that behavior is NOT tolerated without making it worse

I don't let dogs that are snarky to each other interact. They go on rotation. The only dogs that are allowed out together are the ones that DON'T get snarky to each other. Management over futile attempts to force dogs that don't like each other to get along.

[Rellshare]

I agree with most of the article Tiff posted. I've seen it in action with my four dogs. People > dogs always, but which dog is in charge rotates depending on what's going on and who feels like being in charge. Most of the time, one dog wants to "be the dog boss" and the others will just let him/her. No snarks, no drama, just body language.

Once in a while there will be a growl and a snap. I intervene when warranted. If it's one growl and a snap at a dog being rude, for example, I watch and see. If it ends at that, I consider it dogs settling something among themselves. Usually some rude younger dog behavior and an older dog offering a simple correction. If it does not end at that and there is body language and proximity indicating this could turn serious, I say "HEY! That's ENOUGH!" and physically separate the dogs for a while or I take the item they were arguing over and then they go off and pout.

It works for me and my dogs. It might not work for someone else with dogs that truly do not get along.

[EnvellFen]

Once in a while there will be a growl and a snap. I intervene when warranted. If it's one growl and a snap at a dog being rude, for example, I watch and see. If it ends at that, I consider it dogs settling something among themselves. Usually some rude younger dog behavior and an older dog offering a simple correction. If it does not end at that and there is body language and proximity indicating this could turn serious, I say "HEY! That's ENOUGH!" and physically separate the dogs for a while or I take the item they were arguing over and then they go off and pout.

This is basically what I do as well. Until it turns into a real fight (or is about to), I try to let the dogs work it out. They have to learn how much the other is going to tolerate.

So, Roberta, either your first 2 dogs will learn to leave the 3rd alone (or she'll begin to tolerate more) or they won't. If they keep pushing it & the tension keeps escalating, then you will probably have to rotate. If it were me, I'd wait it out & see if they're going to settle down. With my 2, they had a few spats in the beginning, but each spat taught the offending dog not to do that again. And now they get along pretty good, but always with supervision. You have to be at the ready all the time. With these dogs, it goes from warnings to a real fight super fast.

[CymnMaync]

Your input into a "snappy" situation is very important too. If the dogs are just talking, let them sort it out. If it escalates you have to be decisive & calm, take their focus & lay down the law. A couple of times I have seen groups of dogs sorting out their pecking order with a few growls only to have a person intervene, telling their little pooches to behave but also displaying their own fear & agitation. The dogs kick off on this immediately. What was normal behaviour gets escalated by inappropriate & half hearted handling into a fight. Every time I have seen this, it is Terriers involved.