[ronaldasten]

I didn't read all the responses but just from the scenario presented I am torn.

I agree Steve was in the right by having his dog leashed and I agree the EB puppy owner was in the wrong allowing the dog to roam free and to approach a strange dog.

That said (and here is where I am torn) if I had a dog that I knew was that DA; then I personally would have my dog securely muzzled everytime it left my property. I would do this solely to protect my dog from any unforseen instances that could arise from other people being irresponsible. People don't leash their dogs, odds are if you leave your property with your dog, no matter how careful you are on at least a rare occasion or 2 another dog is going to pop up off leash and stick it's face in your dog's face.

I know accidents happen and no matter how well you plan you can't always forsee everything; but I feel in this situation it was forseen so Steve could have done more to keep his dog (and others) safe.

I guess I see the fault as split 50 - 50 if that's what you're asking.

[HRS1H7gO]

how long did it take to kill the pup ? more than a few seconds i"m sure,

Depending on how old the pup was, half a second would be all that was needed. Pups are fragile, and we're talking an EB pup - they have issues just being alive. It doesn't sound like Paris flew into a fit of rage if she saw a dog, but would not stand to have dogs run up to her face, or run along her fence. How many of us here have dogs that are DA? Do you muzzle them in public? Should we all have to muzzle them while in public then?

[seawolferr]

It seems that the owner of the puppy just let this dog run out the door to the street. It could have also concievably ran into the street only to be struck and killed by a car. Now who's at fault? I just can't believe the puppy's owner, especially since it was a puppy, would let it run around when there are many dangers out there.

[ronaldasten]

How many of us here have dogs that are DA? Do you muzzle them in public? Should we all have to muzzle them while in public then?

I'm don't know if people should have to muzzle DA dogs when in public.

I do know that if I had a very DA dog and I knew that there was a good chance that the dog would do some real damage if it had the opportunity to get at another dog...I would muzzle my dog when going out in public because I wouldn't risk having my dog taken away from me for a 10 day quarentine or having someone try to have my dog labeled as vicious and possibly euthanized...and being put in a situation where I had no control over what was happening.

[lkastonidwedsrer]

What if you muzzle your dog and something pops off where another dogs attacks your dog? He muzzled and totally defenseless. Things happen and its unfortunate for the EB. As dog owners we all should become more responsible, not just pit bull owners.

[elton]

I just wouldn't want to be walking down the street and have people go "Damn, look at the vicious pit bull that has to be muzzled." Most of the time just picking your dog up will work. If you have a standard sized APBT (somewhere under 60lbs) it shouldn't be too hard.

[ronaldasten]

I just wouldn't want to be walking down the street and have people go "Damn, look at the vicious pit bull that has to be muzzled." Most of the time just picking your dog up will work. If you have a standard sized APBT (somewhere under 60lbs) it shouldn't be too hard.

That's what I would think also; however in this case it seems the guy tried to pick up the dog and...and I'm not sure what ...I don't know how a grown man loses a grip on a 40 - 60 pound dog.

Now as for me; I'm a 105 pound woman. I can pick up my 50 pound dog in an emergency...but I'm not going very far with her. If I had a very DA dog (of any breed) that was heavier than I could confidently and comfortably pick up...than I would muzzle it. I am less concerned about what people think and more concerned about ensuring that my dog is safe...of course if I had a dog that was that DA dog and not reliably trained to ignore other dogs then I wouldn't be traipsing around with it everywhere either...walks in low traffic areas, the vet, to and from the car...pretty much it.

[choollaBard]

I just wouldn't want to be walking down the street and have people go "Damn, look at the vicious pit bull that has to be muzzled." Most of the time just picking your dog up will work. If you have a standard sized APBT (somewhere under 60lbs) it shouldn't be too hard.

^ that, and beating the ever living fuck out of the dog running up on you. I have my dog as my companion and pet, he should have to worry about fighting some stray pos, so I will do anything and everything to protect him and keep him out of it if at all possible, I swear Id be the bitch down on the ground chocking out a lab if it came down to it.

After Bear's run in with that border collie, any dog running up on him had better hope they can run as fast the opposite direction when they get to me

[ronaldasten]

My husband and I have a standard plan of action.

If a loose dog approaches us when we are together, my husband picks up our dog and I intercept the loose dog and preferably distract it with treats. Obviously I would do whatever was necessary to keep my dog safe; but I don't want to beat on someone else's dog if it is unnecessary (after all, it isn't the dog's fault).

When I am alone...then we more or less wing it. But...Veronica is not DA, she is reactive. We're good unless the other dog starts some serious shit.

[seawolferr]

That's what I would think also; however in this case it seems the guy tried to pick up the dog and...and I'm not sure what ...I don't know how a grown man loses a grip on a 40 - 60 pound dog.

Now as for me; I'm a 105 pound woman. I can pick up my 50 pound dog in an emergency...but I'm not going very far with her. If I had a very DA dog (of any breed) that was heavier than I could confidently and comfortably pick up...than I would muzzle it. I am less concerned about what people think and more concerned about ensuring that my dog is safe...of course if I had a dog that was that DA dog and not reliably trained to ignore other dogs then I wouldn't be traipsing around with it everywhere either...walks in low traffic areas, the vet, to and from the car...pretty much it.

I've seen a full grown man lose his grip on a 58 lb dog, some of these dogs just seem to know how to slip out. Our 58 lb. female is much harder to hang on to than the other female who weights closer to 70. She twists around like crazy!

[ronaldasten]

I've seen a full grown man lose his grip on a 58 lb dog, some of these dogs just seem to know how to slip out. Our 58 lb. female is much harder to hang on to than the other female who weights closer to 70. She twists around like crazy!

Well then I would definitly muzzle...because my jello wrestling days are well behind me.

[MipRippoomamn]

Depending on how old the pup was, half a second would be all that was needed. Pups are fragile, and we're talking an EB pup - they have issues just being alive. It doesn't sound like Paris flew into a fit of rage if she saw a dog, but would not stand to have dogs run up to her face, or run along her fence. How many of us here have dogs that are DA? Do you muzzle them in public? Should we all have to muzzle them while in public then?

all my dogs have been DA it"s how they were bred !! but then, all my dogs have never had major issues with pups, anything their size or bigger was fair game. i never had to muzzle them b/c i could handle them and had my whits about me. try being in that situation with 3 dogs in your CONTROL , not funny i can tell you .so no i am not suggesting that all pit#type dogs should be muzzled . some should definately !! also why couldnt steve grab paris collar for half a second till the pups owners got there ?

[mashabox]

well it is quite hard to keep a dog in your arms when he doesn't want to lol
I always have a muzzle on me on walks I can quickly strap on him because I don't want to deal with the BS.
but if I don't have time to put it on, I'll grab the collar and pull the dog up against me and keep his face head away from the other dog.

my legs/feet can deal with the other dog if he's not interested in eating ME lol.
now if it's me he wants.. well I'm sorry but then your dog's fair game lol..
not many people will have a leg to stand on in court if their dog has put his tooth on me.

if the puppy was hit by a car, would you have a hard time containing yourself in front of the dude that just hit it?
it might have been a car.. but it was a dog he ran into.. but why is the outcome and reaction SO different?

people need to take their responsibilities for their actions instead of shoving it onto someone else..

[LoohornePharp]

If the pup was off leash and the APBT was leashed and there is a leash law in effect then the fault legally lies with the EB pup owners. Maybe they haven't done anything because they talked to a lawyer and found out they were at fault. If there were any witnesses I would suggest your neighbor get their contact information and have them ready to give a statement or testify in court. I'd also take a look at the police/AC incident report and make sure it is accurate. Hopefully these people don't sue, but best to be prepared if they do.

Why anyone would pay out $2,000 for a dog and then let it run around off leash is beyond me.

I agree and disagree with the muzzling mentioned. In places with leash laws in effect you shouldn't have to muzzle your dog to walk it because other dogs should be on leash and unable to get within grabbing distance. However, I do know that in all reality loose dogs will still be a problem and muzzling a DA dog could be a good idea for the dog and the owner's protection.

[Anckzxik]

Sorry I have been somewhat absent from this thread.. Darn it having a real life!!!

But I agree the muzzle might be a good idea. Steve really is a proactive person and in the year of being here and the people with the puppy have been here 2 years longer than me, there has never been an incident until this one. But accidents happen. I'm not excusing any of the actions. I think I'll suggest the muzzle to him tomorrow if I see him.

I guess in my eyes, I think they both need to realize they did things wrong. The EB owners should never let their dogs roam around, and Steve maybe should have to had a muzzle on Paris.

[Qncvqpgfg]

My husband and I have a standard plan of action.

If a loose dog approaches us when we are together, my husband picks up our dog and I intercept the loose dog and preferably distract it with treats. Obviously I would do whatever was necessary to keep my dog safe; but I don't want to beat on someone else's dog if it is unnecessary (after all, it isn't the dog's fault).

When I am alone...then we more or less wing it. But...Veronica is not DA, she is reactive. We're good unless the other dog starts some serious shit.

This is also what we do...
With nice dogs I grab the dog, with bad acting dogs I use my feet or riding crop.
I'm always able to use a tight grip on my dogs collar along with lifting and turning to control her. She's not crazy DA tho...

[medifastwoman]

Hope things start looking up for you and your (responsible) neighbors soon.
Tell him to get some Mace, I need to get some too.

[movlabz]

The puppy's owners are in the wrong for letting it run loose in the first place. Would anyone here let their 2 year old outside unsupervised? Nope. Also I've had some trouble containing my 42 pound dog after picking him up and he really wants that other dog.

[Andromino]

I'm going to agree that technically, the EB puppy owners were at fault and nothing should be done about the Pit or his owner since it appears they were following the law.

But, if that were my puppy, I would have a damn hard time understanding why anyone wants to own a dog so DA that it would attack and kill a puppy. Or, for that matter desire to attack and kill any other dog. I would no doubt have trouble restraining myself from doing harm to the owner or the dog.

I do not understand and believe others that have not been around Pitbulls also do not understand the desire to own a dog that cannot be socialized with other animals, cannot be trusted with other animals, can never be off leash, etc. Why own a dog bred for combat as a pet or housedog when there are numerous breeds that do not require the special handling Pitbulls do?

This is the kind of incident that breeds hatred and misunderstanding towards Pitbulls. OK, the Pit was just doing what it's bred to do. Fine but, it cost the neighbor his puppy. Most likely, if it had not been a Pit, the puppy would be alive today.

I would love to own a Pitbull some day but understand I do not want to deal with special requirements of keeping one. I want a dog that can go anywhere with me, be social to other animals and people, and above all, be a good canine citizen. Pitbulls can be all that but also can be the neighborhood terror to be feared and avoided because of their DA. Something I'm not willing to manage or deal with when there are lots of other dogs that do not have those issues as a breed standard.

This rant was prompted by my fostering of a young EB pup over the weekend that I just dropped off to his new home. Sweetest, most affectionate pup I've seen in a long time. I would be seriously, uncontrolably furious if this happened.

why are you here again? shoo. and please keep your dogs away from mine. and dont get an APBT.

[UnmariKam]

Why in the world should Steve have to pay for the pup, because of the owners irresponsibility? The owner FAILED their pup, not Paris.

Like I said before, get any witnesses you have in line, and a good lawyer to know exactly where you stand, if the owner continues threats for compensation.