[lungumnentibe]

It is never the dog's fault. No dog who is properly contained and controlled is going to hurt someone.

yup that hit it on the head

[Kolokireo]

Nice, but it sounds like your mind was made up before you started writing then added to make a point. The first line in the scenario basically says the dog has never shown any capability of being reactive. The 'Super Dog' & 'Bionic Dog' comments don't really apply either, it does'nt take much to break a car window and its only about 2 feet to the ground. I seriously doubt there would be any brain damage. Its a simple scenario. You blew it way out of proportion. Thanks for the opinion anyway.

My point was that I think it is a highly unlikely scenario. At least for my dog, knowing my dog and my dog's capabilities. Is anything impossible? No...but I'd say I have a better chance of being struck by lightening...twice; than my dog having the motivation, desire and capability to break through a car window because someting she saw excited or upset her.

Now my point about knowing your dog and it's capabilities is simply this...I'm sure it would be no big deal for some APBT's. I don't think it involves rocket science to understand your own dog and know it's capabilities ...so if your dog has this potential...crate the damn thing when you take it in the car.

Your point of it happening "unexpectedly and out of the blue and completely out of character with all the dog's other behaviors up to that point"...I just don't buy. That to me is the same as saying, "the dog just snapped and bit out of the blue". I don't buy that that happens either (except as I said before maybe in the case of medical issues like a brain tumor - but again, very rare). l think people fail to understand and properly read their dog's behavior and miss the little signals along the way that build up to something big...then they are shocked when something happens...something that a more observent person, more knowledgable and more in tune with their dog could have predicted and prevented.

So I blame the human for failure to properly assess, predict and prevent.

I'm certainly not claiming to be an expert, but I do know how important it is to understand your dog and it's behavior, it's potential and it's capabilities; and I'm not afraid to consult experts if I have question or am uncertain about something.

[rassedgesse]

I voted to blame the human. As dog owners WE are responsible for our dogs.It is OUR job to properly contain,train,care for,and if nessicery euthinise our pets when they can no longer function.(this includes euthinising for unstable temperment as well as medical issues) It is NEVER the dogs fault.EVER. It all boils down to how the human owners 'deal' with the dogs. Containment inadequacy,unstable dogs,un-trained dogs, and ill equipped/uneducated/irresponsible ownership makes up the majority of the dogs involved in ''attacks''.

[cQT6nmEc]

so i buy a dog from reliable good stock from a reputable breeder.....the dog is well raised well socialised and trustworthy as a dog can be......

at 4 years old the dog suddenly turns on a human for whatever reason.......thats my fault ?

having seen a few dogs turn for no apparent reason i simply accept that things born from nature dont always stay the same their entire life...

Are you sure there was no reason/no warning signs at some point? A well bred, well trained, well socialized dog does not turn for no reason, or without warning signs along the way. If people don't see it, maybe they weren't looking, or didn't recognize the signs.
Maybe the dog wasn't actually well bred, well trained, and well socialized....

Either way, humans are 100% responsible for their dogs.

[Gozmand]

that is the thing...

I have yet to see ANY dog lunge without ANY warning whatsoever...
and I know my share of aggressive dogs I would never in my life dare to approach...

so in my experience, yes it has always been human error or lack of close supervising that caused problems, not the dog in the first place...

[Kragh]

I vote human responsibility. Same verse same song. They give signs. Proper containment or seclusion which ever the need may be, no problems.
The odd brain tumor/metabolic problem would be the outlier I suppose.

[RooldpalApata]

Are you sure there was no reason/no warning signs at some point? A well bred, well trained, well socialized dog does not turn for no reason, or without warning signs along the way. If people don't see it, maybe they weren't looking, or didn't recognize the signs.
Maybe the dog wasn't actually well bred, well trained, and well socialized....

Either way, humans are 100% responsible for their dogs.

so by saying this,you feel that no dog alive attacks a person without first showing signs that it could or would do so at some future point ?
that is just an unrealistic assumption with no base.

i have twice witnessed attacks by dogs that showed no signs whatsoever of doing so before,the one occasion i needed microsurgery on my thumb after trying to get the dog off my friend....the other time was rather more serious which i have explained about before involving a very well known dog and kennels from these shores.....on neither occasion did the guilty dog show any signs,....both dogs were well bred,well raised happy healthy dogs....nobody but nobody could possibly have seen it coming,and believe me there was enough talk about why after the second attack im referring to as it involved serious injury.....

what both myself and those involved put it down to eventually was simply nature and the imperfections that nature dictates.

to think a dog is not capable of turning bad just because it never shows signs of doing so....in my opinion is naive and dangerously losing touch with reality.

[lXvtm0ox]

Even if one of you can successfully think up a scenario where a dog attack is not the owners fault (I'm sure that it is possible) it would not stop me from voting human in this pole. The cases where a dog loves people it's entire life and then suddenly decides one day to break a car window and jump out of a moving car to attack someone are so ridiculously rare that it would never cause me to blame the dogs for recent attacks. I would say 99.99999999% of dogs show some kind of warning before they attack and in the majority of attacks, at least in my area, you can clearly see from the story where the dog was improperly contained or managed. So in general, who do I blame for dog attacks? People, despite the .000000001% of cases where there was nothing the owner could have done to prevent it. Those are extremely rare exceptions to the rule, not examples of common occurrences.

Oh, and in the case of the dog in the car, I would say the owner should have crated the dog. I also think it is absolutely ridiculous to think that a dog would love people it's entire life and then one day the sight of a man just sitting there minding his business would cause it to break the window and leap out of a moving car to attack him.

[Svatudjw]

Are you sure there was no reason/no warning signs at some point? A well bred, well trained, well socialized dog does not turn for no reason, or without warning signs along the way. If people don't see it, maybe they weren't looking, or didn't recognize the signs.
Maybe the dog wasn't actually well bred, well trained, and well socialized....

Either way, humans are 100% responsible for their dogs.

I bolded your point for emphasis because I agree with it and with a few others who also posted opinions that dogs don't "snap out of the blue." If an owner does not know how to read their dog's body language and/or know their tolerance thresholds/excitement triggers, then it is the human that failed.

Others have already pointed out the responsibility of the owner to properly manage/contain a dog with known temperament issues and it also the owner's responsibility to determine whether or not their dog has temperament issues to begin with.

[alex_loudermilk]

I think is the human's fault...

[fgfblog]

Even if one of you can successfully think up a scenario where a dog attack is not the owners fault (I'm sure that it is possible) it would not stop me from voting human in this pole. The cases where a dog loves people it's entire life and then suddenly decides one day to break a car window and jump out of a moving car to attack someone are so ridiculously rare that it would never cause me to blame the dogs for recent attacks. I would say 99.99999999% of dogs show some kind of warning before they attack and in the majority of attacks, at least in my area, you can clearly see from the story where the dog was improperly contained or managed. So in general, who do I blame for dog attacks? People, despite the .000000001% of cases where there was nothing the owner could have done to prevent it. Those are extremely rare exceptions to the rule, not examples of common occurrences.

Oh, and in the case of the dog in the car, I would say the owner should have crated the dog. I also think it is absolutely ridiculous to think that a dog would love people it's entire life and then one day the sight of a man just sitting there minding his business would cause it to break the window and leap out of a moving car to attack him.

OK, I have a Pit Bull Terrier, 6 years old. Totally fits the scenario dog in every way. The dogs so good the neighbor suggested I clone her. So, if its absolutely ridiculous to think this dog would jump out the car window and attack someone, why would I ever feel it neccessary to put her in a crate?

[lXvtm0ox]

Listen, I'm not saying "OH MY GOD! What an IDIOT that person is for not crating their dog!!!" I'm just saying if you are not going to crate your dog in the car, be prepared for what could happen. Do I think your dog is going to bust through a car window to attack a person after a lifetime of being a people loving happy dog? no. But guess what, she DEFINITELY won't if she is properly contained. And whose responsibility is that?

---------- Post added at 02:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:35 PM ----------

And BTW, if you think that that scenario ISN'T ridiculous, then your certainly should be crating your dog EVERYWHERE you go. You never know, she may just out of nowhere become overcome with aggression at the sight of a person after a lifetime of being the best, most people friendly dog in the world and bust through your car window to attack someone.

[Phoneemer]

http://thetruepitbull.blogspot.com/2...-comments.html


Here is the link to my pitbull/dog blog...Please vote its easy and you dont have to register or nothing. Just vote and or leave your comments! thanks

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 PM ----------

alright I got like 7 votes so far but would like lots more! Please vote and leave your opinion...

[Kolokireo]

Can't answer that question, not enough information.

[Gozmand]

well, considering a dog can't cause harm if the owner doesn't allow it to... there is no need for more information... it's never the animals fault.

---------- Post added at 10:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 PM ----------

ohh, and I voted

[Kolokireo]

Yea, but by saying that, people are going to assume that whenever an attack happens it's always the human's fault, that they must have trained them to be mean, and that when there is a truly human aggressive dog people will try to rehabilitate it because "it's never the dog's fault". See what I'm saying.
Semantics really, but the question can be viewed a couple different ways.

[rassedgesse]

It is never the dog's fault. No dog who is properly contained and controlled is going to hurt someone.

---------- Post added at 04:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:38 PM ----------

Yea, but by saying that, people are going to assume that whenever an attack happens it's always the human's fault, that they must have trained them to be mean, and that when there is a truly human aggressive dog people will try to rehabilitate it because "it's never the dog's fault". See what I'm saying.
Semantics really, but the question can be viewed a couple different ways.

It can... But I'd rather blame the owners than have them think the dogs are insane.

[cQT6nmEc]

Why on earth would anyone blame a dog? Well, there are those who do, but, they don't know any better....

Humans are responsible for stewarding their dogs.

[Stoniaanapy]

Yea, but by saying that, people are going to assume that whenever an attack happens it's always the human's fault, that they must have trained them to be mean, and that when there is a truly human aggressive dog people will try to rehabilitate it because "it's never the dog's fault". See what I'm saying.
Semantics really, but the question can be viewed a couple different ways.

Regardless, its still the humans fault for allowing the unstable dog in question to live when it should've been put down properly before it ever gets to the point of the dog biting.

[Kolokireo]

True. I get that's it's never the dog's fault, I just think the general populace will hear that and they'll put down even LESS HA dogs thinking that they can rehab them.
Meh. Never mind. Never the dog's fault, I'll leave it at that.