[corolaelwis]

There are other ways to use the working ability, tenacity, courage etc. In these dogs.

It's one of my favorite traits in them in fact. The way I use it is responsible, is not abusive, and my dog LOVES doing it.

I don't need to fight my dog to prove how awesome it is. Also just because I disagree with dog fighting doesn't mean I'm denying my dogs history. Most certainly not.
And with DA you can very easily train your dog to be manageable and ignore other dogs because ultimately these dogs are working dogs and should be more focused on the task you have given them.
That's a true working dog.

And it's a responsible owner thing to do to protect our dogs from harm and not let our selfish egos get in the way.

[olivelappers]

I ctrl+Fed and found no use of "game" before yours, My pit is Sasha. You're saying the OP should have used game in place of DA maybe?

Gameness is a willingness to fight in the face of potential injury, yes? What purpose does this serve outside of developing a fighting dog? I can see its use for guard dogs, but from what I've seen, pit breeds are not intended to be (and make poor) guard dogs. Does a more fearless dog help in other competitive sports? I am asking this question out of geniune curiosity; I promise I'm not trying to lead anyone with this line of questions.

Does a dog, that is known to be the offspring of two 100% verified APBTs, that lacks gameness get called something other than an APBT or is it just considered lame (not in a derogatory fashion, just in that it fails to meet specific requirements)? Breed is determined by genetics and genetics only, not by how those genes play out in behavior. Behavior should be used to judge the quality of a dog, not what breed you want to call it.

Full disclosure: My dog is a shelter-mutt. I will likely only ever own shelter mutts. I am not interested in the genetic purity of any breed of dog that I own, but I am interested in, recognize, and respect, why some value genetics so greatly.

If no one has answerd your question. The animal would be considerd a cur. What that means is the animal would be culled. Removed from the gene pool as it has renderd useless.

---------- Post added at 10:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:48 AM ----------

The whole thing about artificial selection is that you can actually change what you don't like if you have the available trait to select for/against.

That right LOL. more curs running around these days than dogs that are to standard! This boards and many others are abundant with them LOL

---------- Post added at 10:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:52 AM ----------

There are other ways to use the working ability, tenacity, courage etc. In these dogs.

It's one of my favorite traits in them in fact. The way I use it is responsible, is not abusive, and my dog LOVES doing it.

I don't need to fight my dog to prove how awesome it is. Also just because I disagree with dog fighting doesn't mean I'm denying my dogs history. Most certainly not.
And with DA you can very easily train your dog to be manageable and ignore other dogs because ultimately these dogs are working dogs and should be more focused on the task you have given them.
That's a true working dog.

And it's a responsible owner thing to do to protect our dogs from harm and not let our selfish egos get in the way.

Some dogs you cant. You just got lucky with the dog you are working with..unless you selectively chose curs to work with. Then your statement makes sense.

[corolaelwis]

Some dogs you cant. You just got lucky with the dog you are working with..unless you selectively chose curs to work with. Then your statement makes sense.

LOL all that says to me is someone who supposedly "cant train" their dog to do something is lazy or uneducated on how to do so.

[olivelappers]

LOL all that says to me is someone who supposedly "cant train" their dog to do something is lazy or uneducated on how to do so.

What ever dude. I've had dogs that would make you a liar!

[corolaelwis]

What ever dude. I've had dogs that would make you a liar!

lol whatever you say... to make yourself feel more bada$$ that you can't control your dog

[olivelappers]

Don't be offended there is nothing wrong with what you do. But specific lines will excel where others may not be so ideal to work with.

---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 AM ----------

lol whatever you say... to make yourself feel more bada$$ that you can't control your dog

I don't have any problems like that.

[corolaelwis]

Don't be offended there is nothing wrong with what you do. But specific lines will excel where others may not be so ideal to work with.

---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 AM ----------


I don't have any problems like that.

[olivelappers]

Well if you can pick em randomly and work with any ol dog and have sucsess with every one. Than I suppose you might be the next ceaser millan....

[hubua990]

This board seems full of two apparently opposing viewpoints, some posters even carry both contradictory viewpoints.

1) The public should love this breed and have better understanding for it rather than creating BSL to protect themselves.

2) This breed should be "gamey" and the dog aggression and willingness to fight should be cornerstone to its standard. Any dog not gamey should be culled.

So, those of you that carry both viewpoints, what are you asking for? Do you want the public to reopen dog fighting as a national past time? Seriously? How can you ask these things when Oprah, leader of all women, cries on the tv screen about abusive puppy mills and excessive gambling is now considered an addiction rather than a hobby. Our culture has moved significantly beyond being able to accept dog fighting and it will be closing the door on accepting an openly dog aggressive breed...even if it is what your dog "loves" to do (btw, your dog would also probably love to eat chocolate and peanut butter all day, so you should let it do that if you think your dog is such an expert at choosing what is best for itself).

So what the hell is the use for their gameness?? Dog aggression is only problematic to an owner as well as the unsuspecting public since owners would like to own more than one and most people would like for dogs to socialize without a giant vet bill for lacerations (this is the age of dog parks, after all). You can continue to post on this board about how any owner not in possession of a break stick and not using “crate and rotate” is irresponsible, but these are pretty high requirements of any dog owner. You can argue that their gameness can be used for other sports, but I believe there are other ways of making an athletic dog without dog aggression.

If humans created this breed through artificial selection for cultural means, then they should further be allowed to modify the breed as culture has changed since the breed’s conception. The APBT/AST (stated collectively as that is how they are publicly viewed) are at a stark crossroads with the public in regards to whether they are allowed to LIVE or not. So many owners are still stuck in this pathetic, adolescent-like, anti-conformist state where they are unwilling to allow their dog to evolve and become contemporary to be accepted into society. Well, that's nice and idyllic of you, but your dogs will eventually be euthanized if you continue that path.

pardon my lack of editing and flow of thought.

[corolaelwis]

This board seems full of two apparently opposing viewpoints, some posters even carry both contradictory viewpoints.

1) The public should love this breed and have better understanding for it rather than creating BSL to protect themselves.

2) This breed should be "gamey" and the dog aggression and willingness to fight should be cornerstone to its standard. Any dog not gamey should be culled.

So, those of you that carry both viewpoints, what are you asking for? Do you want the public to reopen dog fighting as a national past time? Seriously? How can you ask these things when Oprah, leader of all women, cries on the tv screen about abusive puppy mills and excessive gambling is now considered an addiction rather than a hobby. Our culture has moved significantly beyond being able to accept dog fighting and it will be closing the door on accepting an openly dog aggressive breed...even if it is what your dog "loves" to do (btw, your dog would also probably love to eat chocolate and peanut butter all day, so you should let it do that if you think your dog is such an expert at choosing what is best for itself).

So what the hell is the use for their gameness?? Dog aggression is only problematic to an owner as well as the unsuspecting public since owners would like to own more than one and most people would like for dogs to socialize without a giant vet bill for lacerations (this is the age of dog parks, after all). You can continue to post on this board about how any owner not in possession of a break stick and not using “crate and rotate” is irresponsible, but these are pretty high requirements of any dog owner. You can argue that their gameness can be used for other sports, but I believe there are other ways of making an athletic dog without dog aggression.

If humans created this breed through artificial selection for cultural means, then they should further be allowed to modify the breed as culture has changed since the breed’s conception. The APBT/AST (stated collectively as that is how they are publicly viewed) are at a stark crossroads with the public in regards to whether they are allowed to LIVE or not. So many owners are still stuck in this pathetic, adolescent-like, anti-conformist state where they are unwilling to allow their dog to evolve and become contemporary to be accepted into society. Well, that's nice and idyllic of you, but your dogs will eventually be euthanized if you continue that path.

pardon my lack of editing and flow of thought.

great post!

[olivelappers]

Fuck Oprah! LOL

[olivelappers]

This board seems full of two apparently opposing viewpoints, some posters even carry both contradictory viewpoints.

1) The public should love this breed and have better understanding for it rather than creating BSL to protect themselves.

2) This breed should be "gamey" and the dog aggression and willingness to fight should be cornerstone to its standard. Any dog not gamey should be culled.

So, those of you that carry both viewpoints, what are you asking for? Do you want the public to reopen dog fighting as a national past time? Seriously? How can you ask these things when Oprah, leader of all women, cries on the tv screen about abusive puppy mills and excessive gambling is now considered an addiction rather than a hobby. Our culture has moved significantly beyond being able to accept dog fighting and it will be closing the door on accepting an openly dog aggressive breed...even if it is what your dog "loves" to do (btw, your dog would also probably love to eat chocolate and peanut butter all day, so you should let it do that if you think your dog is such an expert at choosing what is best for itself).

So what the hell is the use for their gameness?? Dog aggression is only problematic to an owner as well as the unsuspecting public since owners would like to own more than one and most people would like for dogs to socialize without a giant vet bill for lacerations (this is the age of dog parks, after all). You can continue to post on this board about how any owner not in possession of a break stick and not using “crate and rotate” is irresponsible, but these are pretty high requirements of any dog owner. You can argue that their gameness can be used for other sports, but I believe there are other ways of making an athletic dog without dog aggression.

If humans created this breed through artificial selection for cultural means, then they should further be allowed to modify the breed as culture has changed since the breed’s conception. The APBT/AST (stated collectively as that is how they are publicly viewed) are at a stark crossroads with the public in regards to whether they are allowed to LIVE or not. So many owners are still stuck in this pathetic, adolescent-like, anti-conformist state where they are unwilling to allow their dog to evolve and become contemporary to be accepted into society. Well, that's nice and idyllic of you, but your dogs will eventually be euthanized if you continue that path.

pardon my lack of editing and flow of thought.

I am not going to disect your post as I personaly do not give a shit what your oppinion is or what it means on the topic of Game dogs, because you clearly do not have insight on it. You don't know the dog's and you don't know the ppl behind them..otherwise you wouldn't spout this nonsense.

And as far as my dogs are concerned, And dogs are plural LOL, you have no idea how the public or my community views me or them. So as pathetic you may assume I am about the evolution of this breed is..LOL I work with the public daily on what it means to be a responsible APBT or cur owner is.

[hubua990]

I am not going to disect your post as I personaly do not give a shit what your oppinion is or what it means on the topic of Game dogs, because you clearly do not have insight on it. You don't know the dog's and you don't know the ppl behind them..otherwise you wouldn't spout this nonsense.

And as far as my dogs are concerned, And dogs are plural LOL, you have no idea how the public or my community views me or them. So as pathetic you may assume I am about the evolution of this breed is..LOL I work with the public daily on what it means to be a responsible APBT or cur owner is.

oh chill out...I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the OP. I do know how the public views pit bulls- this is without question, unless you think you've got some secret passcode to the media that gives you more insight than anyone else. Gosh, you'd be special then, huh?

[olivelappers]

oh chill out...I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the OP. I do know how the public views pit bulls- this is without question, unless you think you've got some secret passcode to the media that gives you more insight than anyone else. Gosh, you'd be special then, huh?

What I said was, you don't know the dogs or the ppl behind them to make such statements about them. I know exactly how the public percieves this breed and their owners thank you. And if I misunderstood your post my appologies.

[gypearteday]

These dogs like to fight because people breed for it and encourage it. Its part of who they are. I like the breed for many different reasons. DA doesn't bother me, its a part of the breed and I accept that. It doesn't mean I am going to learn about fighting and how to fight my dog because I own this breed. Lots of breeds were used for fighting/gladiator dogs not just this one. Dog fighting is illegal in my country and was a thing of the past. APBTs today are used for many other different purposes and are a very versatile breed. They excel at almost anything they do.

[Pelefaifs]

APBTs today are used for many other different purposes and are a very versatile breed. They excel at almost anything they do.

and in your opinion, what makes these dogs so versatile?

[gypearteday]

and in your opinion, what makes these dogs so versatile?

It has always been a versatile breed as are a lot of different breeds like the GSD. The drive and willingness to please I suppose.

Many different breeds are no longer used for the original purpose. I don't see many GSD doing herding (although I am sure some do) but I see a lot of them doing SCH and police work. It wasn't the original purpose, but the dog still has the drive and ability to do a more up to date task.

Does it mean the dogs still can't preform the original function? No. However as dog fighting is illegal where I live its not something I plan to do or study in detail. It doesn't mean I don't like or value the breed.

[gWhya5ct]

Lots of breeds were used for fighting/gladiator dogs not just this one. Dog fighting is illegal in my country and was a thing of the past. APBTs today are used for many other different purposes and are a very versatile breed.

Now ask yourself why 20 or 30 years back when people did fight the dogs (and further back when it was still legal) there weren't all these cases of out of control dogs attacking people or the neighbor's pets. There weren't all these myths and rumors about how dangerous the dogs are back then, wonder why.

Look at how many people are afraid to even discuss it because they are afraid discussing it will be seen as advocating it, supporting it, whatever. It is what made the breed, a person wants to claim they love the breed, but they don't want to touch their history with a ten foot pole. Seems to be some disconnect there. Unless a person actually has looked into how it was done, what occured when it was done, how the owners/handlers managed and cared for the dogs, and so on, then explain to me just how it is they KNOW it was cruel, the dogs were abused, etc. They don't even KNOW anything about it but they KNOW it was cruel? Yea, pull the other one why don't you.

Why are there so many curs, temperamentally unstable dogs, DA dogs with owners that don't know how to control it, etc. out there?

You can argue with me all you want but I think history is going to prove that the very people claiming they are trying to protect the breed from cruelty are the very people that are destroying it.

Because history has shown already that the breed never had these problems until they got involved.

---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 PM ----------

The drive and willingness to please I suppose.

How do you suppose that was developed and continued and what happens when the breeding standards and screening process that were used to build that up are no longer in place?

---------- Post added at 03:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:10 PM ----------

So what the hell is the use for their gameness?? Dog aggression is only problematic...

Proof you know nothing about what gameness is. Gameness is not Dog Aggression, there were plenty of dead on game dogs that were not DA.

And there are a boatload of DA dogs that are not game.

But you don't want to learn.

[Guloqkcm]

I'm a fur mommy and I hate dogfighting.

[gypearteday]

I am not afraid to discuss it I know of the history, but that being said it is history and is illegal here now period. Dog fighting then and now also seems a lot different than it is now and as someone said in another thread everyone has their own way of doing it and opinion on it. One persons way might be not as cruel as another.

There are a lot of nice working dogs produced out there that haven't been fought. As I said earlier just because you have a certain breed doesn't mean you have to want it for the original purpose when the breed is able to do many other legal and useful tasks. Lots of breeds have drive and willingness to please it doesn't mean they need to be fought to do so.

I don't even really understand what you guys are trying to prove. You want it to be legalized in the US?

As for the breeding and attacks I don't think it has anything to do with dog fighting. I think it has to do with morons owing the breed and BYBs producing bad examples with genetically flawed unstable temperaments. Today's media also doesn't help.